Good time to be needing tools. Esp beginners.

[Tronyadorable]

Ya know. Those of us staring in the mirror at some gray headed ******* with a bunch of wrinkles should know that NOW is a great time for tool buyers.
I remember when I was a pup the choices were generally good ole Sears or maybe some SK or KD at the auto parts stores. The real mechanics had their fleet of truck driving thieves passing by every week for their payments and the Big Boys(railroad, airlines, steel mills, shipyards) had giant supply houses that generally had a full selection of Proto or some Blackhawk available right away.

All but craftsman was rather spendy even when the US dollar was still worth something. Now these whippersnappers can get any tool imaginable for an incredibly wide margin of pricing as easy as getting a cheeseburger and fries.

The screwdriver thread led me to this rant.
I't unbelievable the enormous variety of hand tools, electric, battery and air tools available in this day and age.
I wish the same were still true for machine tools.
Them thar orientals changed the game...for the betterment of everyone really.
Some poor ******* working on a sugar cane machine in Brazil couldn't possibly get on a truck or order some Proto-Hazet but he can damn sure come up with something decent and affordable to make his day easier.
That wasn't so back "in the day".

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Globemaster, Fuller, the rack in the dime store, Gambles, JC Pennies, Wards, Sears, JC Whitney.. Snap On dealer in town... Auction sales... SK and Stanley in the hardware stores.... Auto supply stores... Choices then and choices now... The internet does play a big role in my shopping today..

 

[Davefr]

I remember when I was a pup the choices were generally good ole Sears or maybe some SK or KD at the auto parts stores.

All but craftsman was rather spendy even when the US dollar was still worth something. Now these whippersnappers can get any tool imaginable for an incredibly wide margin of pricing as easy as getting a cheeseburger and fries.

I'm not sure I see it that way.

Back in the "good old days" you could get good quality/affordable tools at many B&M stores. (Sears, Wards, Penny's, K-Mart, Western Auto and numerous "ma and pa" lumber yards/hardware stores).

The only real **** was a line called Globemaster. (probably what inspired HF).

What's really changed is that it now takes at least 10X the number of tools to do the absolute basics. (Metric, Torx, Electronics, tools to reach confined areas, specialty tools, etc, etc, etc).

The other thing that's changed is that quality tools are usually only available online. I can't think of any B&M store where you can buy the quality of tools that you could back in the old days.

I'm not sure if it's really a good time to be needing tools. There's definitely a huge variety (driven by need) and lots of choices but there's a very large price delta between low quality and high quality and just about everything in B&M stores is now low quality.

 

[bwringer]

The proliferation of stupid special fasteners that no one needed or asked for is indeed a real problem. I'm lookin' at YOU, GM and Ford...

What I find mind-boggling is that every vehicle the world over, even US-made, has been metric for decades, yet as we stare up the **** end of 2014 it's STILL way more difficult to find metric tools and fasteners in the US. I can't quite figure out why the tool industry is so far behind. I have one small drawer that's the inch tool ghetto, and the only time I dive into it is when I'm working on lawn mowers, Harleys, and other farm machinery.

It's better than it was in the late '80s, certainly, but even now, just try waltzing down to your local hardware store in the US and asking for a 5mm drill bit. "Wellllllll, here's a 3/16"... ain't that close enough?"

The internet has been amazing -- you can find the specialist stuff you need, along with information on how to use it, even a video of someone on the other side of the planet showing you how to fix whatever it is. And I can find out before I buy it whether that left-handed chrome-plated roto-plooker is worth the money.

On the other side of the equation, relatively few manufacturers and retailers have yet taken full advantage of the internet to offer their products to a worldwide audience (like McMaster-Carr, for example). It's still early days, but I suspect we'll see many, many more "industry-only" products and tools slowly being made available to the public. Restricting availability just doesn't work any more, but too many companies have been slow to abandon their idiotic restricted distribution systems. (Wurth products, just to pick one example, are still extraordinarily difficult for civilians to buy.)

When I was 22 years old and trying to work on my old Datsuns, Suzukis and Kawasakis, I would have LOVED to have had access to all the tools and information that's available now. The nearby Sears and Kmart didn't have everything I needed, and the paper manual didn't tell me anything about how to really fix the charging problems endemic to old Suzukis.

I still remember the joyful day when I finally found a metric tap set at Sears. I also remember being unable to buy a metric set of wrenches or sockets without also being forced to buy a useless (to me) assortment of inch tools. There was also the time I finally found an Ace hardware store in my town that stocked a few metric fasteners -- they were three times the price of inch sizes and always out of stock, but they were there sometimes...

 

[ihateminimumwage]

The proliferation of stupid special fasteners that no one needed or asked for is indeed a real problem. I'm lookin' at YOU, GM and Ford...

What, you don't like spending a small fortune to buy sets of Torx, E-Torx, Security Torx, Triple Square, Spline, and whatever they come up with next?

 

[bwringer]

What, you don't like spending a small fortune to buy sets of Torx, E-Torx, Security Torx, Triple Square, Spline, and whatever they come up with next?

GM: "Hey, let's use a BRAND-NEW, never-before-seen size of external torx to hold these seats in! Sure, ordinary bolts have worked fine for several decades, but ordinary bolts are so... ordinary."

Ford: "Hey, it's too easy to reach this small bolt that keeps the crank sensor from falling out. I mean, anyone could reach it with a normal socket, and then where will we be? People might be able to work on their own cars! Let's use a button-head torx bolt made from parmesan cheese and iron filings with a shallow, undersized torx cavity. Ooh, and put a bunch of **** right in front of it, too. Install it dry with 900 foot-pounds of torque -- don't want that tiny piece of plastic with no stress on it falling out, do we? And make sure the crank sensor is especially fragile -- there's got to be a way we can find a supplier to somehow screw up a magnet with a wire sticking out of it, isn't there?"

Ze Germans: "Vat? Only six points on zese bolts? Make zem twelve. And make them more pointy -- ve can't haff zose schweinhund Americans vorking on zere own cars, can we? MORE POINTY!"

 

[bob15]

What, you don't like spending a small fortune to buy sets of Torx, E-Torx, Security Torx, Triple Square, Spline, and whatever they come up with next?

Actually torx do have their place. They are better than hex heads in the smaller sizes due to not stripping out as easy. Even scope mounts use torx because of their strength.

What about square head bolts? I don't seen any complaints yet, but they have been around for decades........

 

[Kirbot]

GM: "Hey, let's use a BRAND-NEW, never-before-seen size of external torx to hold these seats in! Sure, ordinary bolts have worked fine for several decades, but ordinary bolts are so... ordinary."

Ford: "Hey, it's too easy to reach this small bolt that keeps the crank sensor from falling out. I mean, anyone could reach it with a normal socket, and then where will we be? People might be able to work on their own cars! Let's use a button-head torx bolt made from parmesan cheese and iron filings with a shallow, undersized torx cavity. Ooh, and put a bunch of **** right in front of it, too. Install it dry with 900 foot-pounds of torque -- don't want that tiny piece of plastic with no stress on it falling out, do we? And make sure the crank sensor is especially fragile -- there's got to be a way we can find a supplier to somehow screw up a magnet with a wire sticking out of it, isn't there?"

Ze Germans: "Vat? Only six points on zese bolts? Make zem twelve. And make them more pointy -- ve can't haff zose schweinhund Americans vorking on zere own cars, can we? MORE POINTY!"

This is the best thing I've read all week.
Especially Ze Germans.


On another note, I have to agree with the OP.
Between buying Gearwrench and Vim 40% off at advance auto, and tons of industrial brands used online, you can build a fantastic set of tools for almost certainly less money than ever before.

 

[Ign]

It's not just the auto manufacturers. Hello Fastenmaster with spider drive, because, yeah, nothing else will work to drive fasteners into the softest building material there is (hint: it comes from trees).

You can disassemble an NP205 t-case with virtually nothing but a 9/16" wrench, so not just lawn mowers and Harleys that use fractional in a relevant way, although only a handful of members here would know what a doubler is.....

 

[928'er]

Harleys, and other farm machinery.

 

[Packard V8]

The other side of the supply/demand equation is a large percentage of the millenials don't own a home, don't own a garage and don't work on anything other than plugging in video games.

I still go to professionally-run estate sales and see garages full of tools being sold off because the children/grandchildren "don't want it/don't need it; just sell it and send the check."

That plus the trend has been away from 1/2" drive to 3/8" and 1/4" drive and from inch to metric. The 3/4" and 1/2" drives and inch sockets and wrenches are dirt-cheap now.

Then, there's metrology. Back in the day, I didn't know any home mechanics who owned even one micrometer. I now have boxes of Starrett outside/inside/depth/stand micrometers, better than most machine shops back then. But they're all inch and all analog. Today, young guys all want digital.

Different times, different tools.

jack vines

 

[BK13]

You can disassemble an NP205 t-case with virtually nothing but a 9/16" wrench, so not just lawn mowers and Harleys that use fractional in a relevant way, although only a handful of members here would know what a doubler is.....

I do, though it's not like I could fit one in my CJ...

 

[3baygarage]

GM: "Hey, let's use a BRAND-NEW, never-before-seen size of external torx to hold these seats in! Sure, ordinary bolts have worked fine for several decades, but ordinary bolts are so... ordinary."

Ford: "Hey, it's too easy to reach this small bolt that keeps the crank sensor from falling out. I mean, anyone could reach it with a normal socket, and then where will we be? People might be able to work on their own cars! Let's use a button-head torx bolt made from parmesan cheese and iron filings with a shallow, undersized torx cavity. Ooh, and put a bunch of **** right in front of it, too. Install it dry with 900 foot-pounds of torque -- don't want that tiny piece of plastic with no stress on it falling out, do we? And make sure the crank sensor is especially fragile -- there's got to be a way we can find a supplier to somehow screw up a magnet with a wire sticking out of it, isn't there?"

Ze Germans: "Vat? Only six points on zese bolts? Make zem twelve. And make them more pointy -- ve can't haff zose schweinhund Americans vorking on zere own cars, can we? MORE POINTY!"

Roflmfao Thanks for that.

 

[orca8589]

Ze Germans: "Vat? Only six points on zese bolts? Make zem twelve. And make them more pointy -- ve can't haff zose schweinhund Americans vorking on zere own cars, can we? MORE POINTY!"

Now that's just mean right there. And hilarious. I have a friend from Germany who would agree with you 110%. He loves the old VW's and can't stand most or all of the newer stuff.

Back in 2011, we had to help my wife's parents move to assisted living, and my father-in-law gave me his toolbox. It's an old Kennedy, and he used to work on aircraft in the 1950's-60's. Every drawer has at least one tool that's been modified: ground to a different shape, ground thinner, cut off & re-welded to a different shape - or heated up & bent into an odd angle (I assume for access to some strange space on a plane), hammered & peened into another shape, re-handled... you name it, it's been done to these tools. He told me that at one plant he worked at, the machine shop guys would re-work a tool for you anytime you needed it, provided they had the time free to do it. (The price was usually a beer or two after work on Fridays.)

Now I walk into a Harbor Freight store, and I see tools just like the ones in my dad's box. I know he'd have loved to have access to something like that in his day.

~Chris

 

[dutchgray]

The internet has allowed access to any and all quality tools which is just as well as physical stores have raced to the bottom with cheap rubbish, however as long as you don't buy the really cheap stuff, the Asian manufactures make better cheap tools than have ever been available before, and tools in general are cheaper than they have ever been.

 

[67King]

Well, I think it is worse. Used to be able to buy decent Craftsman tools, but now their stuff is not up to snuff. The better Asain stuff is probably on par price wise with the old craftsman. Problem is, decent stuff still costs a bit, but in addition to the new types of fasteners, you now have non mechanical tools that you didn't use to, and one other thing I haven't seen mentioned is how tight things are packaged now. I never needed stubbies, large offsets, super fine tooth ratchets, etc. on my GTO. The Porsches are a nightmare

 

[Ruger_556]

Ze Germans: "Vat? Only six points on zese bolts? Make zem twelve. And make them more pointy -- ve can't haff zose schweinhund Americans vorking on zere own cars, can we? MORE POINTY!"

That was a good laugh

 

[mensa]

I remember when the most exotic tools in my toolbox were a valve spring compressor, a small piece of jumper wire to retrieve trouble codes, and a pre-oiler made from a pilfered distributor with a big nut welded on top.

 

[Toymeister]

Here is the truth, after WWII Europe and Asia were effectively out of the manufacturing business on a global economy scale. The US was insulated from competive forces. This continued for decades. To a degree it stiffled inovation and certainly competitive pricing. Now the US must compete against Asia, which we are not doing so well at. Is that a problem Asian made cheap tools? The market does not think so.

Argue COO all you want, the market has already made its call. The OP appears to think this is a good. I can't disagree with him.

 

[Cato]

But wait, weren't things better in the good ole days?! lol

Weren't handtools all made in the USA of unbreakable steel and powertools ran on patriotism and a good work ethic?

Couldn't you get a Snap On socket set for a dime and Craftsman tool chests were built like Sherman tanks?

 

[Kirbot]

But wait, weren't things better in the good ole days?! lol

Weren't handtools all made in the USA of unbreakable steel and powertools ran on patriotism and a good work ethic?

Couldn't you get a Snap On socket set for a dime and Craftsman tool chests were built like Sherman tanks?

To be fair... Stationary power tools from way back whenever really were far far better than what's available new today....

But that's OK with me. I happy to buy them on the used market for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Adam.C]

One of the biggest gains to car fixing in my opinion is the advent of battery powered Impact guns. I used to literally dream of the ability to change a flat by the side of the road with an impact gun. I actually carried a 5 gallon air tank around sometimes.

 

[383 240z]

It's not just the auto manufacturers. Hello Fastenmaster with spider drive, because, yeah, nothing else will work to drive fasteners into the softest building material there is (hint: it comes from trees).

You can disassemble an NP205 t-case with virtually nothing but a 9/16" wrench, so not just lawn mowers and Harleys that use fractional in a relevant way, although only a handful of members here would know what a doubler is.....

Mmm Doubler!!! Doublers rock!!! Keith

 

[sberry]

I have to agree with Tony, common hard line hand tools have never been cheaper.

 

[bcradio]

I have to agree with Tony as well and I have to disagree with Kirbot. I think power tools today are leaps and bounds above what they used to be. They don't have steel shells anymore, but I am glad for that in the weight savings. A problem with the power tools today is that they have a huge differences between the cheap ones and the good ones.

 

[crewchief888]

The internet has allowed access to any and all quality tools which is just as well as physical stores have raced to the bottom with cheap rubbish

the 'net and it's infinite supply chain has made a world of difference in the availablity of tools,
low quality, and high level as well.

it's introduced to the "masses" what a lot of old (us) "professional" old timers already figured out,

the job goes easier, better and faster with a proper, quality tool.

with the varied fasteners in todays world also increased the number and variety of tools needed to accomplish nearly any repair, no matter how simple it may be.

 

[devoncoolman]

This is a double edged sword. Yes you can get good quality tools cheap. Ie asian brands. But all your top quality brands are still stupid expensive. And even the average tech needs to own twice if not three times as many tools to do the same work as 40 years ago. And to be an a tech at a busy shop that everything you need to own 5 times more tools. So it not cheaper today.