Expansion tank placement

[BIGSHOT]

Hi everyone. I'm starting to install my radiant floor system and I've look at all install posted here ... I always see the expansion tank placed at the Out/Hot of the boiler.

It seems in the schematic provided by my boiler company i need to place it at the water supply level ... can someone confirm this for me ?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Bondo]

I always see the expansion tank placed at the Out/Hot of the boiler.

It seems in the schematic provided by my boiler company i need to place it at the water supply level ..

Ayuh,.... It really don't matter one bit,....

The system is pressurized, 'n the pressure is seen through-out the entire system,....

On my home oil boiler, in the out goin' Hot pipe, is a cross fittin' that is the feed water, 'n the pressure tank opposite it,...
The big air bleed chamber is also at that fittin',...

My OWBoiler is plumbed into the house boiler, with common water, 'n pressure,...
The OWBoiler has a drainable pressure tank on it, 'n I added a bladder tank, 'n spiro-vent to it,...

It's like the ole "Pump into", or "Pump outa" the boiler discussion,...
Both work, 'n Both have been done for decades, with great results,...

 

[anthony666]

it does matter where you place it, it needs to go at the point of most constant system pressure, which is right at the inlet for the main system pump, right where the air eliminator (separator) is in that diagram .. this is because it's purpose is to absorb the impact from spikes in system pressure, not spikes in the feed pressure, and to absorb thermal expansion on the hot side of the boiler

also bondo, why do you start every post with 'ayuh' ?? what does that even mean man ??

 

[Bondo]

it does matter where you place it, it needs to go at the point of most constant system pressure, which is right at the inlet for the main system pump, right where the air eliminator (separator) is in that diagram .. this is because it's purpose is to absorb the impact from spikes in system pressure, not spikes in the feed pressure, and to absorb thermal expansion on the hot side of the boiler

also bondo, why do you start every post with 'ayuh' ?? what does that even mean man ??

Ayuh,.... It's my trademark,.....

 

[DekeT]

It does not make any sense to me that the diagram shows the expansion tank on the cold water feed side of the boiler. It should be inline with the hot water leaving the boiler. Many separators have an outlet the expansion tank can screw into the bottom.

 

[BIGSHOT]

Thanks guys for your support ! Greatly appreciated.

DekeT : I have bought a Honeywell PV075 and it screws right on the expansion tank.

 

[anthony666]

Ayuh,.... It's my trademark,.....

okie dokie

 

[mygarageone]

it does matter where you place it, it needs to go at the point of most constant system pressure, which is right at the inlet for the main system pump, right where the air eliminator (separator) is in that diagram .. this is because it's purpose is to absorb the impact from spikes in system pressure, not spikes in the feed pressure, and to absorb thermal expansion on the hot side of the boiler

also bondo, why do you start every post with 'ayuh' ?? what does that even mean man ??

+ 1

 

[BIGSHOT]

I have begun to put electrical tape to simulate where the piping will go ... I find it easier to change things if something is not right ...

 

[404]

In the cold line the tank will stay at a lower temp and last longer... maybe..

 

[brewchief]

Plumb both the expansion tank and fill valve into the bottom of the air separator.

 

[BIGSHOT]

Can you guys comment on my set up. It's not soldered yet and there's not any bracket holding anything ... I just want your input on what would need to be better placed or any missing parts ect ... There will be a T fitting Under the expansion tank for the inlet.
Thanks !!!

 

[AV8OR]

We have a hot water tank but my plumber put our expansion tank on the cold side inlet with the coupler at the bottom. His thinking was if the bladder ever ruptures and I have to install a new expansion tank then when I drain the water any water captured inside the expansion tank will drain out when I drain the system.

I've also attached the expansion tank to the wall to keep the weight off the copper pipe if it should fill with water and I don't catch it.

 

[brewchief]

I would prefer to see the circulator as close to the air eliminator as possible, might be able to simply swap two sections of copper to bring it up high.

I would add a tee with a boiler drain between the boiler and the ball valve, makes a great purge port, close the ball valve and open the fast fill on the fill valve and you can push the air out very easy.

 

[twinpack]

it does matter where you place it, it needs to go at the point of most constant system pressure, which is right at the inlet for the main system pump, right where the air eliminator (separator) is in that diagram .. this is because it's purpose is to absorb the impact from spikes in system pressure, not spikes in the feed pressure, and to absorb thermal expansion on the hot side of the boiler

also bondo, why do you start every post with 'ayuh' ?? what does that even mean man ??

666, you are correct and a funny guy (ayuh)

 

[BIGSHOT]

I would prefer to see the circulator as close to the air eliminator as possible, might be able to simply swap two sections of copper to bring it up high.

I would add a tee with a boiler drain between the boiler and the ball valve, makes a great purge port, close the ball valve and open the fast fill on the fill valve and you can push the air out very easy.

Will put the pump higher no problem.

I have a drain on the left of the boiler ... is this enough ?

 

[brewchief]

Will put the pump higher no problem.

I have a drain on the left of the boiler ... is this enough ?

What you have will work but you won't be able to force the air out of the boiler, a boiler drain right before the ball valve will allow you to clear any air much quicker. In all probability a simple system like that should be pretty easy to bleed but I try to make it as easy as possible.

 

[jvitez]

M. Bigshot. Je suis toujours jaloux que les gens Quebecois peuvent utiliser le chauffage électrique, en raison de votre hydroélectricité pas cher. Merci Hydro Quebec! Pardon mon pauvre français. Manitoba Hydro said they will raise hydro rates by 100% over the next 20 years to pay for multi-billion dollar dams we don't need. Grrrrrrr. But anyway......

Very nice system you're putting together. I just read your build thread. Your heating system is inside an even nicer garage! Congrats!

In all the build and heating threads I've read on GJ, I've never seen someone use diamond plate behind their heating equipment. Looks great! What made you pick diamond plate? Are there any benefit besides aesthetics?

 

[BIGSHOT]

What you have will work but you won't be able to force the air out of the boiler, a boiler drain right before the ball valve will allow you to clear any air much quicker. In all probability a simple system like that should be pretty easy to bleed but I try to make it as easy as possible.

Well noted and great info for somebody else who will be searching for answers in the future.

 

[BIGSHOT]

M. Bigshot. Je suis toujours jaloux que les gens Quebecois peuvent utiliser le chauffage électrique, en raison de votre hydroélectricité pas cher. Merci Hydro Quebec! Pardon mon pauvre français. Manitoba Hydro said they will raise hydro rates by 100% over the next 20 years to pay for multi-billion dollar dams we don't need. Grrrrrrr. But anyway......

Very nice system you're putting together. I just read your build thread. Your heating system is inside an even nicer garage! Congrats!

In all the build and heating threads I've read on GJ, I've never seen someone use diamond plate behind their heating equipment. Looks great! What made you pick diamond plate? Are there any benefit besides aesthetics?

Vous écrivez très bien Français !

Thanks for the compliment on the garage ... been working hard on it !

Actually there's a lot of people here that used diamond plate behind their system. This is mostly aesthetics but it makes it easy to screw all the components pretty quickly. It's not that expensive and it looks good I think.

 

[BIGSHOT]

Also can one of you explain the best way I could fill my system ?
Can I plug my electric pump ( in a bucket ) right at the fast fill valve and fill it with a mix of Glycol and water ?

I live in Québec and need Glycol in my system.
In some threads people say to fill it with water and then add glycol and others say to do the mix before and fill it ...

Thank you guys !

 

[Bondo]

Also can one of you explain the best way I could fill my system ?
Can I plug my electric pump ( in a bucket ) right at the fast fill valve and fill it with a mix of Glycol and water ?

I live in Québec and need Glycol in my system.
In some threads people say to fill it with water and then add glycol and others say to do the mix before and fill it ...

Thank you guys !

Ayuh,.... I used a barrel pump, 'n short hose,....

Just screw yer pump hose onto the boiler drain, 'n start pumpin',....
Open a bleeder far away, 'n it'll all fill from the boiler drain,...
A regular ole garden hose fittin',...

 

[BIGSHOT]

Here's the updated setup with the wonderful advices from forum members ...I will solder everything next week as I dont have time this weekend to do this. Please let me know your toughts !

 

[anthony666]

t&p valve is hooked up backwards .. it will not work

the vent on your back flow preventer is directly above your pump .. if it vents the pump gets wet .. electricity + water = disaster

no pipe hangers ???

 

[BIGSHOT]

Thanks Anthony ... like stated nothing is fixed or soldered ... it's hanging by duct tape !!

The Backflow preventer will have a vent that will go all the way down.

Thanks for the T&P valve I will reverse it right now.

Here in Québec I could not found any pipe hanger at any hardware store ... I'm going to Toronto this weekend and I found some at Lowe's in Ontario.

 

[anthony666]

you're welcome bigshot

buy your pipe hangers at wolesley, 1365, rue Basin, Montréal, QC H3C 1W3 .. they are sized for black iron by default, so make sure you tell the guy at the counter you are using copper pipe or the hangers will be too big

 

[BIGSHOT]

Will do ! I actually bought everything you see in the picture at Wolseley.

Just did not think of it I guess !