Merkava_4
Banned
Before reading this thread, I had no idea naziism was so wide spread in Germany; it's kind of disturbing to hear about it. 
Whats the tool situation in the Germany?
- Thread starter billymade
- Start date
CRAZYASTRO
Well-known member
worst thing is they still can organize demostraion-marches covered by non forbidden political groups.It's a shame...
jerk_chicken
Banned
It's here and it's a secret they like to keep. Enjoy trying to get legit media coverage, as there's a blockade, yet Germans claim conspiracy theories that American media is controlled (*various groups I won't mention). Hah, the recent Berlin and Plauen Nazi marches were reported quite a bit differently in legit media (only one to two outlets) and the bloggers all agreed with one another and had differing stories and pictures compared to the German coverage.
The NPD party is actually legitimate; it gets seven figures worth of votes, and has government seats. Several of the other parties refuse to not recognize them. Instead of a ********, they implemented a geometrically similar design that doesn't look like a ********. There was also a separation between the lineage of the Nazi party post WWII and it is this break that is one of the things that makes the government impotent in declaring them as such a group. They knew to make a disconnect and become a legit group, they had to do such a thing.
So I'm in the house, can't go out, and Germans think on Monday the Nazis are gone, not part of the population of Germany. The NPD party has also targeted Turkish businesses once again, vandalizing them.
Nazism is alive and well. The German government is impotent, as they tried to outlaw them due to their threats against the constitution, and failed. Their leader, Udo Voigt is a friend of David Duke and has participated on some sort of unity between the groups, and the Dresden marches are actually a method they use to meet one another and unify the groups around the world.
There are way more angles to this, but this is what I meant somewhere above that there are massive Socio-Economic problems and instability in Germany that existed before the current crisis. The scapegoating of the US is only a tactic governments around the world and the actual citizens are using to deflect attention of their own crippling problems that apparently damage the pride they have in their countries. People view the US as the best country in the world, but it's tempered with realistic criticism, where applicable. If you go by Germans, EVERYTHING in Germany is fantastic! Nothing wrong, ever! If you can point out something wrong, they blame it on reunification and the East Germans. Then the Turkish, then the Americans, the Swiss, and so on and so forth.
This reminds me a bit of the Simpsons episode where Homer is drinking a beer on his lawn. Wiggum drives by and yells at him for drinking in public. Homer quickly grabs a brown paper bag and slips the beer in it. Wiggum then starts looking around and is dumbfounded, swearing he saw a beer. Staying inside your home doesn't do anything to hide that this is the population, nor does it eliminate the legitimacy of the party. Acting like the historical disconnect is valid won't do anything either.
It's here, no one wants to do anything about it.
The NPD party is actually legitimate; it gets seven figures worth of votes, and has government seats. Several of the other parties refuse to not recognize them. Instead of a ********, they implemented a geometrically similar design that doesn't look like a ********. There was also a separation between the lineage of the Nazi party post WWII and it is this break that is one of the things that makes the government impotent in declaring them as such a group. They knew to make a disconnect and become a legit group, they had to do such a thing.
So I'm in the house, can't go out, and Germans think on Monday the Nazis are gone, not part of the population of Germany. The NPD party has also targeted Turkish businesses once again, vandalizing them.
Nazism is alive and well. The German government is impotent, as they tried to outlaw them due to their threats against the constitution, and failed. Their leader, Udo Voigt is a friend of David Duke and has participated on some sort of unity between the groups, and the Dresden marches are actually a method they use to meet one another and unify the groups around the world.
There are way more angles to this, but this is what I meant somewhere above that there are massive Socio-Economic problems and instability in Germany that existed before the current crisis. The scapegoating of the US is only a tactic governments around the world and the actual citizens are using to deflect attention of their own crippling problems that apparently damage the pride they have in their countries. People view the US as the best country in the world, but it's tempered with realistic criticism, where applicable. If you go by Germans, EVERYTHING in Germany is fantastic! Nothing wrong, ever! If you can point out something wrong, they blame it on reunification and the East Germans. Then the Turkish, then the Americans, the Swiss, and so on and so forth.
This reminds me a bit of the Simpsons episode where Homer is drinking a beer on his lawn. Wiggum drives by and yells at him for drinking in public. Homer quickly grabs a brown paper bag and slips the beer in it. Wiggum then starts looking around and is dumbfounded, swearing he saw a beer. Staying inside your home doesn't do anything to hide that this is the population, nor does it eliminate the legitimacy of the party. Acting like the historical disconnect is valid won't do anything either.
It's here, no one wants to do anything about it.
I noticed that the times I visited Germany; everything was "perfect" in Germany, "superior" to everything/one else in "die welt" and the pride in their nation, was still there.... Having pride in your nation isn't a bad thing but a all consuming and blindness to your own problems, is; the acknowledgment of these issues, here (by Germans, or at least people living there) is refreshing and pretty much confirms feelings/thoughts that I had, having visited Germany and having a family reunion there. Hearing everything is "superior" get old after awhile and it doesn't help that you are a "american" not quite a "real" German and a "Ausländer"! My great grand father came to this nation in the 1890s; I can see why the took the risk to come here and start a new life in the "new world"! I guess, every nation has its national characteristics and economic hard times has a way of creating support for the Left or the Right politically, when people do not have hope; they look to politics for hope and a feeling of solidarity with one another! I enjoyed Germany both times I went there but I will agree, that I felt more freedom in the USA, compared to Germany! Our nation has many problems, too but the socialist based system in Germany, seems to take away people's freedoms and economic opportunity/innovation; these same type of philosophies, IMHO... threaten our nation as well... Every nation, govermental type, ecanomic sytem; has its positives and negatives; from a Amercian perspective, I was relived when I would get off the plane and was thankful to be back in the USA. We are all dealing with the economic problems; it should be interesting to see how it all shakes out... we have all dealt with tougher times in the past (before our lifetimes) and I have faith we can get though this one as well...
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jerk_chicken
Banned
Here's a small news clip, in German, of course. Incidentally, on my daily rides home, I pass directly over their meeting spot. Now I know why there were so many black dressed people there. Not that I wasn't wearing nearly all black myself.
http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-51467.html
Last month's Berlin march (note the anti-Nazi female at the end and the police telling her to go away and keep quiet, thusly she responds "I can't stay quiet":
http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-51467.html
What the news isn't showing clearly is what is essentially police protection for the nazis, and worded a bit lightly is how they are there for the Anti-Nazis. Also, you'll see people with a British, American, and Israeli flag. This is actually illegal in Germany and you will see the police response to them. However, the Nazis can wave their flags, a major source of criticism.
So from my apartment, looking directly to the inner city center, I'm hearing police sirens and helicopters (paid by the taxpayers!) have been overhead for most of the day, just hovering, with others in the area as well. Not to mention the 10k police being paid for by the tax payers to protect the Nazis. The report isn't displaying the crowds of Nazis here, nor are they fully displaying the police protection.
Oh yeah, you'll get people that will correct you if you say "Nazi" because that's embarassing. They will correct you and say "Right Extremists" or "Right Radicals", like they sound any better in mission from the Nazis, which are National Socialists. If you go through some of the pictures, you'll see the banners having the wording of National Socialism. Everyone knows NS's=Nazis=Right Extremists=the NPD party. The NPD has already been labeled as a threat to Germany's constitution, yet even the anti-Nazism laws can't block them.
Additionally, one of the comments was from an older man about how he's somewhat surprised to see that it's mostly the young there, that have flags and banners speaking of the history they weren't even there to witness. The scary part is that the influence is growing. It's not going to shrink any time soon when it's permitted through essentially benevolent neglect. Benevolent Neglect was what allowed nations to rise out of colonial and imperial times.
http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-51467.html
Last month's Berlin march (note the anti-Nazi female at the end and the police telling her to go away and keep quiet, thusly she responds "I can't stay quiet":
http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-51467.html
What the news isn't showing clearly is what is essentially police protection for the nazis, and worded a bit lightly is how they are there for the Anti-Nazis. Also, you'll see people with a British, American, and Israeli flag. This is actually illegal in Germany and you will see the police response to them. However, the Nazis can wave their flags, a major source of criticism.
So from my apartment, looking directly to the inner city center, I'm hearing police sirens and helicopters (paid by the taxpayers!) have been overhead for most of the day, just hovering, with others in the area as well. Not to mention the 10k police being paid for by the tax payers to protect the Nazis. The report isn't displaying the crowds of Nazis here, nor are they fully displaying the police protection.
Oh yeah, you'll get people that will correct you if you say "Nazi" because that's embarassing. They will correct you and say "Right Extremists" or "Right Radicals", like they sound any better in mission from the Nazis, which are National Socialists. If you go through some of the pictures, you'll see the banners having the wording of National Socialism. Everyone knows NS's=Nazis=Right Extremists=the NPD party. The NPD has already been labeled as a threat to Germany's constitution, yet even the anti-Nazism laws can't block them.
Additionally, one of the comments was from an older man about how he's somewhat surprised to see that it's mostly the young there, that have flags and banners speaking of the history they weren't even there to witness. The scary part is that the influence is growing. It's not going to shrink any time soon when it's permitted through essentially benevolent neglect. Benevolent Neglect was what allowed nations to rise out of colonial and imperial times.
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Merkava_4
Banned
What is NPD abbreviated for?
Merkava_4
Banned
billymade,
How big is Germany compared to California? I mean in the literal sense, the square footage.
How big is Germany compared to California? I mean in the literal sense, the square footage.
Cali-for-ni-a ; 163,696 sq mi : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
Deutschland: 137,847 sq mi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
Deutschland: 137,847 sq mi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
Merkava_4
Banned
Hah!! That's what I thought.
jerk_chicken
Banned
Yep, that is correct. They actually hold influence in the government of my state because they get lots of votes, as well as in other states.
Here's the link to another article of the march:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4030017,00.html
Still not totally revealing, but good enough to put together with everything else. Taxpayers are paying for police protection of a group that is a "Threat to constitutional order".
One of the oddities is how West Germans will say "they're east German groups!", but the fact of the matter is these statements back up the studies that show West Germans still don't consider East Germans equal. Everything can be blamed on someone else. Additionally, these groups came from the west because the DDR government didn't allow them there. One of my close friends lived through the social problems in the west in the 80's with the Nazis, which is now in the East, as they've been permitted to go there and actually have some success. The friend's grandfather was a Waffen SS agent, of all things, and went to the USSR to serve prison time after the war. There, he was presumably tortured and put into forced labor for years because of revenge, and then killed. Not necessarily an unfitting end, to be completely un-PC.
Anyhow, we have lots of manufacturing that came to the east due to the fact that the pay scale was not equivalent to the west. It was legally made lower, a fact that became a point of exploitation. Infineon and AMD are here, as well as the VW Transparent Factory (just a short distance from my home), but this year they are supposed to bring wages up to 100% German (another lie, due to the fact that employers are exploiting loopholes and also know that the employees are afraid to lose their jobs or pay massive legal fees to bring a case) and over time, this increase has been moving companies out of Dresden and further east, since Poland, CZ, and Slovakia are nearby. In fact, VW's parts come from Slovakia and Dresden's location makes it convenient to haul everything in from these three nearby countries, then they offload them to streetcars, which drive directly into the VW building. So most of the labor is really done outside, then sent in for final assembly. Shame, considering these Phaetons go for 100k in the US, and it's not only VW. It's all of them.
I tend to liken this to what happened to Japan when their manufacturing economy collapsed at the start of the 90's, though somewhat different circumstances.
Incidentally, as I was typing this, a friend emailed me and spoke to a German in the US about Germany and the reply was "German efficiency is the biggest lie in the world, no exaggeration".
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Merkava_4
Banned
Over here in California we have a sizable Indian population with the dudes wearing turbines around their head and stuff and no one cares!! Myself, I don't care what color you are as long as you don't smell bad.
Very rarely do I actually run into someone that I think smells exceptionally good and when I do, I tell them about it!! Usually it'll be a girl with just the right balance of pina~colada shampoo smell goin' on.
Very rarely do I actually run into someone that I think smells exceptionally good and when I do, I tell them about it!! Usually it'll be a girl with just the right balance of pina~colada shampoo smell goin' on.
jerk_chicken
Banned
That's what I miss. I'm not Sikh (the guys that wear Turbins. Sadly, they were subject to racial attacks after 9/11 because people didn't know the religion was formed as a direct antagonist to Islam and they don't cut their hair until the world is free of Islam), but I used to think from the news hype that there was some racism in the US. Of course there is, but at the same time, on a one to one basis, those same people will give people a chance as an individual. So my perspective has drastically changed as my living situation has somewhat worsened, personal rights/freedoms are restricted, and those who encouraged this move to Germany (germans) didn't seem to be forthcoming about the massive socio-economic problems here. In fact, I don't think it was malicious. I think it's part of the thinking of how everything is so great here and everything else is bad. In fact, before I moved, I found an article on German toilets. Some toilets actually have a shelf (a link will be below) so you go and do your business on it. In my experience before even seeing the article, Germans I know from the US would complain about American toilets, which is exactly outlined in this article! Even with a normal German toilet without the S-shelf, one has to flush several times, and brushes are even next to public toilets because you leave a skid. That's pretty savage, as far as I'm concerned. The problem is with even normal German toilets, the engineers didn't really meet with the Green people during the design. First, you flush, it's not clean. So it's acceptable to brush, then you have to flush again to rinse that water out and the bits off the brush. So now you've actually used 2x the water of an American toilet (as indicated by water meters we have over the taps). On top of that, the shape of the back wall allows a direct hit, while the water jets actually pass OVER it, not through it, so now you have another reason to clean and waste more water. When I informed my gf and her family of that when they were making fun of the US, there was no answer to why 2x the water needed to be used to flush a German toilet, even one without a sh*tshelf.
Article 1 from spiegel:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,406547,00.html
Article 2, a horrifying exploration of the German toilet's reality:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm
Luckily, I vetoed three apartments with the shelves. No way am I going to play with my ****. I'm not exactly happy about how it's ok to do what I'm doing on a regular toilet here that wastes more water than an american toilet.
And don't get me started on the smell here. Unless you've been here, on a train, or in a supermarket, you can not imagine the odor. I've been on trains in India during the summer and it doesn't compare to one or two people walking around a store and filling it.
Article 1 from spiegel:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,406547,00.html
Article 2, a horrifying exploration of the German toilet's reality:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm
Luckily, I vetoed three apartments with the shelves. No way am I going to play with my ****. I'm not exactly happy about how it's ok to do what I'm doing on a regular toilet here that wastes more water than an american toilet.
And don't get me started on the smell here. Unless you've been here, on a train, or in a supermarket, you can not imagine the odor. I've been on trains in India during the summer and it doesn't compare to one or two people walking around a store and filling it.
eschoendorff
Well-known member
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
wow........i haven't paid much attention to this thread. now i know why! politics and religion.............
jerk_chicken
Banned
Hasn't it?
I guess back to the tools, though interspersed is some observations about the Eastern manufacturing situation and wages...
I guess back to the tools, though interspersed is some observations about the Eastern manufacturing situation and wages...
davestlouis
Well-known member
So is a toilet a tool? I'm amazed at the German toilet design...
I've been to Germany once and could not believe the immense degree of hospitality. I went to visit the Mercedes museum and once I left the museum I realized that I didn't have any Deutchmarks (this was before the Euro) to take the train back. I asked some guy on the street where I could find a bank that could exchange some Italian Lire that I had and instead he drove me several miles to the train station and exchanged my Lire for Deutchmarks at an unfavorable exchang rate(unfavorable for him). I didn't realize that till later! I have never experienced that level of hospitality anywhere by anyone!
superautobacs
Well-known member
When I visited Germany (about 8 years ago) with my parents, we rented a Mercedes to tour around the country. On the last day of our trip we needed to drive back to Frankfurt airport to return our vehicle. We got lost and had to stop at a garage for directions. They were able to speak to us in broken English, but to our surprise a lady from the garage actually told us to follow her to get back on the right direction on the highway. THAT was really courteous...and it saved us a flight ticket.
All this talk about how Naziism is still strong and alive in parts of Germany is
All this talk about how Naziism is still strong and alive in parts of Germany is
jerk_chicken
Banned
heehee
Merkava_4
Banned
Is there some place in Germany called Zurich? I've heard that word somewhere.
jerk_chicken
Banned
Switzerland! Close enough, though
jerk_chicken
Banned
jerk_chicken
Banned
Was at the dealer again today to inspect an oil leak (which they couldn't find after they cleaned the engine, but it's definitely there).
I noted that once again, there were all new, young faces in the repair area. All looked 16-18. There were a few older guys in there that looked pretty demotivated. The master techs don't work there. They sit out on desks and crunch numbers.
Next, I looked around as I walked through there. Didn't see any professional grade tools. Saw the standard Lux and Proxxon stuff that's pretty crappy brand stuff, but people see to look at them as ok because the companies did a decent job marketing and making people believe they are "professional" tools. It appears that there's no real qualification for the word "professional" or "industrial" and they are even attached to tools one can find in the supermarket. Not that the US has a qualification for the use of those words, but it's not thrown around as much as I've seen here. So a large dealer here, comparable to the largest ones I've seen in the US, doesn't really employ too many professionals, nor are they using decent tools that are even close to CM levels.
I noted that once again, there were all new, young faces in the repair area. All looked 16-18. There were a few older guys in there that looked pretty demotivated. The master techs don't work there. They sit out on desks and crunch numbers.
Next, I looked around as I walked through there. Didn't see any professional grade tools. Saw the standard Lux and Proxxon stuff that's pretty crappy brand stuff, but people see to look at them as ok because the companies did a decent job marketing and making people believe they are "professional" tools. It appears that there's no real qualification for the word "professional" or "industrial" and they are even attached to tools one can find in the supermarket. Not that the US has a qualification for the use of those words, but it's not thrown around as much as I've seen here. So a large dealer here, comparable to the largest ones I've seen in the US, doesn't really employ too many professionals, nor are they using decent tools that are even close to CM levels.
Vinko
Well-known member
I remember those German toilets from years ago. Other countries had them too. I'm trying to remember which. Poland, maybe. I think most of central Europe. I was always curious about the design. I know it's weird...
You know... since everything is Germany is seemingly high quality, governed by strict standards, specific specifications etc.; I find it ironic that the tools the techs are using to do all the work to repair your car or do TUV inspections, are low grade. This may be a issue that has been gone over already but why do you think this is? Is the classic German frugal mindset kicking in or are techs unable to afford the high end tools or are these tools they are using provided by the dealer? Here in the USA; the special genuine authorized Volkswagen tools are required to be purchased by a Volkswagen dealer to offer authorized service! Then again; your dealer may have those tools but they are using cheaper stuff for the basics like wrenches.... What brand is your car? Again, my perspectives on Germany; were always challenged with the reality of the situation, when I have visited. I would love to hear; if you asked the other techs what the tool situation is for a German tech and what brands they buy. The why/how and their perspective would be fascinating to hear about; personal tools vs. dealer/company supplied tools maybe the answer. I still think that somebody must be buying all the high quality tools that Germany makes! Maybe a good portion of it is being exported.
Here is a case in point: when I visited the Mercedes factory/museum in Stuttgart, I was surprised to see that the employees all seemed to have Mercedes cars! Apparently, they buy them at a discount rate and sell them a couple of years later and flood the market with these cars. Again, this was a preconceived notion on my part but when I looked at most the Mercedes cars in Germany; they were stripped, no a/c, no leather... only cloth/tweed, and hardly any bells/whistles! I saw this all over Germany; cars/brands that were expensive and seen as something special in the USA were generally, sold at a low equipment level and many of the expensive models were very rarely seen on the autobahn or anywhere on the roads in Germany! IMHO, this is a classic case of Teutonic frugality and a spartan sensibility! In this case; it seemed to me the high end stuff was being exported to the USA, Middle East or anywhere else but sold in Germany! Maybe this is the case for the tools, too!
Here is a case in point: when I visited the Mercedes factory/museum in Stuttgart, I was surprised to see that the employees all seemed to have Mercedes cars! Apparently, they buy them at a discount rate and sell them a couple of years later and flood the market with these cars. Again, this was a preconceived notion on my part but when I looked at most the Mercedes cars in Germany; they were stripped, no a/c, no leather... only cloth/tweed, and hardly any bells/whistles! I saw this all over Germany; cars/brands that were expensive and seen as something special in the USA were generally, sold at a low equipment level and many of the expensive models were very rarely seen on the autobahn or anywhere on the roads in Germany! IMHO, this is a classic case of Teutonic frugality and a spartan sensibility! In this case; it seemed to me the high end stuff was being exported to the USA, Middle East or anywhere else but sold in Germany! Maybe this is the case for the tools, too!
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goodfellow
Well-known member
I can't comment on the current German tool situation, just to say that it was not like that in the past. I started as a pro mechanic at an independent shop. That shop was started by a "true blue" German factory certified Mercedes master mechanic. This guy brought his personal Mercedes tools with him. In the 1950's and 60's all Mercedes apprentices, journeymen, and masters built their toolsets with factory tools (usually stamped as such). Many were purchased through factory/dealership discount, credit and incentive plans. Toolboxes at factory dealerships were usually provided by the company while techs at independents supplied their own.
When he started in the US, this master mechanic brough about $30K of factory and specialty tools with him from Germany (those are 1960's $$$). He bought those tools through a Mercedes Benz credit plan that was part of a program to supoort small startup dealerships.
For German mechanics of this vintage they were almost **** about the type and quality of their personal tools. I've met a few old timers who worked for Porsche and DKW/Auto Union -- their factory tools look as good as when they were purchased in the early 1960's --
jerk_chicken
Banned
I suspect a lot of the problem is the lack of pride many don't have in their job and demotivation starts early. First thing is for HS, there's three paths one can go on and those of high aptitude are given the chance to go into a track that leads to university studies. The rest go into vocation or a mixed type of study and from there, the chances of going into university studies are not only partly structurally impossible, but there is discrimination (according to several instructors in the family, along with what we're taught in language school), so I suspect many will be discouraged because they simply developed responsibility and intellect a bit late, but are in a situation where it's extremely hard to do anything about it.
The contrast between that and the US is that if one later decides to go for further academic training, even if it means starting in bare-bottom, remedial courses, it is possible, and in fact, many people have done so.
So then you also have the situations Hawk outlined. Then of course, if you don't have much money, how are you going to be able to afford even Carolus or anything else that's a bare minimum in the quality chain?
As far as the cars that flood the market, yeah. I leave just a walk from the VW Transparent Factory and the area is filled with Phaetons. Also, when they were talking the new Scirocco, they were all over here, and on display, although they aren't being made there. I'll be going on a tour sometimes and seeing if I can see what they're using there. A lot of the assembly is done via machines or manned machines, so it's hard to see what they have going on through the windows.
The contrast between that and the US is that if one later decides to go for further academic training, even if it means starting in bare-bottom, remedial courses, it is possible, and in fact, many people have done so.
So then you also have the situations Hawk outlined. Then of course, if you don't have much money, how are you going to be able to afford even Carolus or anything else that's a bare minimum in the quality chain?
As far as the cars that flood the market, yeah. I leave just a walk from the VW Transparent Factory and the area is filled with Phaetons. Also, when they were talking the new Scirocco, they were all over here, and on display, although they aren't being made there. I'll be going on a tour sometimes and seeing if I can see what they're using there. A lot of the assembly is done via machines or manned machines, so it's hard to see what they have going on through the windows.
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Frank Elson
Well-known member
As far as the cars go, it's the same everywhere in the world.
The domestic market gets cheap basic models that they just don't let go overseas.
I recall a story some years ago. BMW had an ad that their cars started at £n, so not as expensive as people might think.
So some motorist journalist pointed out that the cheapest, basic model, mentioned in the ad, simply wasn't available in the UK. If you went in to order one they'd just leave you hanging until you sprung for air con, alloy wheels etc etc.
The domestic market gets cheap basic models that they just don't let go overseas.
I recall a story some years ago. BMW had an ad that their cars started at £n, so not as expensive as people might think.
So some motorist journalist pointed out that the cheapest, basic model, mentioned in the ad, simply wasn't available in the UK. If you went in to order one they'd just leave you hanging until you sprung for air con, alloy wheels etc etc.
jerk_chicken
Banned
Oh, I forgot to include that yes, there are "stripper" mercedes and other luxury vehicles here. For the most part, Americans only associate most of these cars with power everything, leather, sunroof, A/C, etc. However, for Mercedes, for instance, we have "Classic", "Avantgarde", and "Sport" editions. The use only got a standard and a sport. The standard was comparable to the Avantgarde, having more options, chrome effects around the windows, etc. Mine is a "Classic", however with power, part power seats, cloth (good in our case with mountain biking), some wood trim, A/C, sunroof, upgraded engine, six speed, etc.
They are a dime a dozen out there in this exact configuration, coming from rental agencies, fleets, corporate leases, etc. Our car happened to be owned by a rental company for six months, then stayed with a private owner until we bought it last summer. It was extremely low mileage, as most German cars I come across are. One other thing I find interesting is how Americans and people from the UK value a car based on 100k miles. Here, they think 100k km is high...
Quite strange.
They are a dime a dozen out there in this exact configuration, coming from rental agencies, fleets, corporate leases, etc. Our car happened to be owned by a rental company for six months, then stayed with a private owner until we bought it last summer. It was extremely low mileage, as most German cars I come across are. One other thing I find interesting is how Americans and people from the UK value a car based on 100k miles. Here, they think 100k km is high...
Quite strange.
goodfellow
Well-known member
That is perculiar, although given the distances we Americans routinely drive, I'm certain that we put 100K miles on our cars before most European drivers hit 100K km (not sure about the folks in GB). So most likely by the time the Euro car hits 100K km, it's probably quite a bit older than the American car with 100K miles.
jerk_chicken
Banned
I put 15,000km on my car since we got it last June, owing to a lot of family visits on the other side of the country, and trips to surrounding countries.
Laid out with bike injuries, I also had to drive to my language schools at least 50% of the time instead of biking out there.
Now figure this: we get most timing belt change intervals at 60k miles. That translates to about 102k km, or 100k km to be short.
Laid out with bike injuries, I also had to drive to my language schools at least 50% of the time instead of biking out there.
Now figure this: we get most timing belt change intervals at 60k miles. That translates to about 102k km, or 100k km to be short.
When I was in Germany I was always asking the natives about cars, the autobahn etc.; this is the sense that I got.
1. Most Germans will not keep a car over 4-5 years; 7 years max. Why?
2. TUV; the inspections are enforced and after 4-5 years, there are so many repairs that need to be made (power train, body rust etc.) that it isn't cost effective to keep the cars that long. If the repairs aren't made; they cannot drive the car... I would assume many cars go to the junkyard or recycle center sooner then here in the USA. This was confirmed by the amount of shiny new cars that are on the road in Germany; to see older cars was not terribly common and if I did, they had lots of primer "repairs" all over the cars to cover the rust holes. Also, to my disappointment; I was a VW aircooled Beetle fanatic and I didn't seen many left on the road; nor, did I see many Porsche autos either (I think I saw two the whole month I was there!)! I guess our perceptions and reality; are two different things.
The educational system there was also a almost caste/class system that early on plugged young people into a vocation or higher education early. THis struck me as a shame and not a very democratic way of educating a free people; how many of our historical inventors or geniuses would have thrived under that system? On the other hand; you might have a more employable and trained workforce; then in the USA. Every place has its postivies/negatives but from a American perspective; it was a eye opener! One of my relatives from Austria had gone to University for years and hadn't paid a dime; as long as she did well with here grades, she could continue for who knows how long!
1. Most Germans will not keep a car over 4-5 years; 7 years max. Why?
2. TUV; the inspections are enforced and after 4-5 years, there are so many repairs that need to be made (power train, body rust etc.) that it isn't cost effective to keep the cars that long. If the repairs aren't made; they cannot drive the car... I would assume many cars go to the junkyard or recycle center sooner then here in the USA. This was confirmed by the amount of shiny new cars that are on the road in Germany; to see older cars was not terribly common and if I did, they had lots of primer "repairs" all over the cars to cover the rust holes. Also, to my disappointment; I was a VW aircooled Beetle fanatic and I didn't seen many left on the road; nor, did I see many Porsche autos either (I think I saw two the whole month I was there!)! I guess our perceptions and reality; are two different things.
The educational system there was also a almost caste/class system that early on plugged young people into a vocation or higher education early. THis struck me as a shame and not a very democratic way of educating a free people; how many of our historical inventors or geniuses would have thrived under that system? On the other hand; you might have a more employable and trained workforce; then in the USA. Every place has its postivies/negatives but from a American perspective; it was a eye opener! One of my relatives from Austria had gone to University for years and hadn't paid a dime; as long as she did well with here grades, she could continue for who knows how long!
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jerk_chicken
Banned
It's not uncommon to have an older car and being hit with a bill of several thousand euros to get it to pass. I just saw this on TV as well. Many shops are ripoffs because they have you by the balls. Myself, I don't see too many old cars, although my gf's father has an old E-class from the late 80's and it somehow still passes, but he also gets it serviced at a nearby mercedes specialist or at the dealer. It's on something like the second engine, where in the US, we'd still be on the first. Same for my gf's old car, which is now her brother's. I think it's on its third engine because the first one blew up, the second one would not have passed TUV, so they replaced it. For the US, it would have barely been broken in, but such things as oil leaks, for instance, knocked it out.
There absolutely is an educational class system, whereas in the US, late bloomers can absolutely have a shot later to be academics, for instance. It's pretty much decided here at 14-15 or so because it's kind of too late to follow an academic track at that time and make up until it's time to ship off for more education. This rigid system also leads to unemployment, whether they admit it or not.
There absolutely is an educational class system, whereas in the US, late bloomers can absolutely have a shot later to be academics, for instance. It's pretty much decided here at 14-15 or so because it's kind of too late to follow an academic track at that time and make up until it's time to ship off for more education. This rigid system also leads to unemployment, whether they admit it or not.
goodfellow
Well-known member
Thanks for posting Monte! To afford those tools you'd have to take out a loan against your house. Those prices being in "Euros" makes for a very expensive proposition. I don't see how German mechanics can afford top quality tools given those price structures.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Most big name German tools are great quality. Anymore though "Made in Germany" means "Made by Trukish and Arab Immigrants"
zuspiel
Well-known member
You bought two of those giant combo wrenches, right? 
Wow, those prices are scary. I was looking around on the Web today and found a shop in Zurich with a similar Hazet window display. I think I'll have to check them out (will take pics, no worries ). Prices actually seem to be slightly below what your shop advertised. Strange enough, given that Switzerland is usually more expensive. They have a little (old style) Assistent for $750. Still insane. If it were half that, I'd bring one back...
Wow, those prices are scary. I was looking around on the Web today and found a shop in Zurich with a similar Hazet window display. I think I'll have to check them out (will take pics, no worries
). Prices actually seem to be slightly below what your shop advertised. Strange enough, given that Switzerland is usually more expensive. They have a little (old style) Assistent for $750. Still insane. If it were half that, I'd bring one back...