Exemption to zoning laws?

[oifla]

Hello all,

I want to build a garage that's a little bigger than the standard 24'x24'. Unfortunately, as per the city zoning laws in this area, the max size in my is 580 sq ft. Also, metal buildings are not allowed. Both of these limitations are a problem for me as I would like to put up a metal building that is a little bigger (870 sq ft).

Has anybody successfully negotiated exemptions to similar limitations in zoning? Thanks

 

[kd3pc]

A few feet bigger, perhaps...not likely going to go for the big size you want.

If you have neighbors, I doubt seriously they will give a variance for the metal construction, unless you can get them all to agree in person and on paper and appear at the hearing.

I would talk to them, and see what types (if any) variances they have allowed in your area, in the past few years and what they might do to meet you half way

 

[BlackTalon]

Might want to go talk to your local zoning office and ask them what luck/ success others have had getting similar variances from the Zoning Board. I found the people at the zoning desk where I live to be quite helpful.

 

[sublimate]

I've ben involved in some variances.

IMHO, going a little larger is often not a problem as long as:
1. you're staying within the required setbacks
2. your neighbors are supportive
3. it doesn't dwarf your house or the other buildings in the neighborhood
4. you have a good reason for needing it.

But going to a metal building is likely to be more problematic as people may see it as industrial / degrading their property value.

I'm too cheap to pay for a stick-built garage is not usually an accepted reason...

 

[ford33]

When you went to your local building department office, what did they say?

 

[GuyllFyre]

A shotgun and a shovel.
Just don't let anyone know where you bury the bodies.

 

[rsanter]

Build a metal frame building.
For the walls use SIP panels as they are finished on the ninside and insulated already.
Then stucco the outside

Bob

 

[Falcon67]

If there are larger buildings in the neighborhood already then you can ask for relief in a variance hearing. If there are none or if any existing conform to the requirements then its very likely you'll get turned down. You need to show a "hardship" or not being able to enjoy the same privilege as your neighbors. Just wanting a bigger building won't get it.

 

[Cyberbear]

Years ago I wanted to add a large two story shop addition to my existing small shop and garage. Since the county building dept. had never seen this done before, they were hesitant to approve my plans although my proposed addition was not against their code in any way. It took me a year to jump through all the obstacles they placed in my path, but I did prevail. One thing I did find out was that all code is subject to interpretation, and the field inspector has the authority to approve what the plan checkers will not.
Once I made friends with the inspector, he approved everything I wanted to do and I ended up with a 2700 sq/ft shop behind my 1170 sq/ft house. It's never easy fighting city hall, but it can be done if you are persistent, and learn how the system works.

 

[DekeT]

Hello all,

I want to build a garage that's a little bigger than the standard 24'x24'. Unfortunately, as per the city zoning laws in this area, the max size in my is 580 sq ft. Also, metal buildings are not allowed. Both of these limitations are a problem for me as I would like to put up a metal building that is a little bigger (870 sq ft).

Has anybody successfully negotiated exemptions to similar limitations in zoning? Thanks

What possible reasons for the exception do you have? If they approve yours they will have to approve everyone else who asks. Not a chance you get your changes.

 

[Mike007]

I needed a variance to build my garage. It was a time consuming and difficult task. I had a friend on the zoning board and I hired the towns former attorney who had some pull and it came down to the wire, but just barely squeezed by.

One thing I learned, you need to claim hardship or something that benefits the town. I told them I needed the garage so my Jeeps and trailer wouldn't have to be parked on the street creating an eye sour. Good luck.

 

[mmack66]

When you went to your local building department office, what did they say?

Good one!

 

[Tdoriot]

or......pound a for sale sign in your front yard and move to a place you can have a killer shop !

 

[JACDes]

If you research the zoning the size restriction most likely applies to detached garages on residential lots.

If you look around your neighborhood there are most likely plenty of houses with big attached garages (3+ car)

If you have the space on the lot and can maintain all the required setbacks attach it to the home (with a covered walkway) and build it the size you want.

The catch is it will have match the style of the home. It will cost more than a metal building but keeps everyone happy (the city, the neighbors, and the wife) and you get your big garage/shop.

Find the loopholes in the codes... (they all have them) and use them to your advantage.

The whole point of restricting detached garage size on residential lots is to keep people from running a business out of their home (mechanic's shop) and turning the neighborhood into a junk yard.

 

[Voi]

I know one couple who found a way around a neighborhood covenant by building an over/under garage separated by a pre-cast slab. They could park up top but then drive down and around the lower part where they stored their boat and had their shop.

Their lot really lent itself to this design, however.

 

[JACDes]

Do your homework, they may restrict the area but not the height.

if you cant' attach it you could build a 24 x 24 detached but have a 10'-12' ceiling so you can put a lift in one bay to stack cars.

Abandon the pre-fabbed metal building idea because I guarantee they won't bend on that one.

it all starts with the survey..

 

[LB-1911]

Hello all,

I want to build a garage that's a little bigger than the standard 24'x24'.

Unfortunately, as per the city zoning laws in this area, the max size in my is 580 sq ft. Also, metal buildings are not allowed.

Both of these limitations are a problem for me as I would like to put up a metal building that is a little bigger (870 sq ft).

Has anybody successfully negotiated exemptions to similar limitations in zoning? Thanks

Your request will be dead upon arrival -

You want to go with a metal bldg -

Going from 580 sq ft to 870 sq ft is more than "a little bigger"

Board of Zoning Appeals
https://bloomington.in.gov/sections/viewSection.php?section_id=150


Extending carport rafters
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235121

 

[JasonF]

I went through this and the best thing you can do is personally go through the zoning ordinance and verify it is correct plus look for footnotes/sidenote ie loop holes. I have a good size chunk of property but it is residential zoning (r-1) which limited me to 860sqft. I found a asterisk next the agricultural zoning (a-1) that stated that the rules for A-1 applied to R-1 if the property was over 1.5acres. This was stated no were in the R-1 section and the twp officials were not volunteering this info either holding me to the 860sqft outbuilding. Needless to say the twp had no grounds to deny my building at that point but why did I to dig this up on my own?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Every town is different. Around here there isn't a specific "max garage size", just a max footprint ground coverage of 20% and there must be enough room to relocate the septic system should the current one fail. Please post the exact verbiage of the zoning law. Does it actually say "garage". If yes, then redefine part of it as anything other than "garage space". A garage is where you park your car. A workshop or storage building isn't necessarily a "garage". You may just need to play with the wording on your plans.

 

[HoosierMark]

Just to be clear. Is it a zoning rule or a subdivision covenant? I find many people think the government will enforce covenenants, they will not. They only enforce the rules they make. What is the basis for this zoning rule. Usually zoning is based upon lot size, coverage of the lot, setbacks, etc. It usually does not deal with type of construction or building size for anything other then the residence.
If you are restricted from not building a metal building and only building to a certain size, it sure sounds like a subdivision covenant. The city cannot grant you a variance for this, that requires the owners of the subdivision to act.

 

[toyoguy81]

To the OP, I take it moving out to the country is out of the question, I had this same problem 4 years ago, I sold that .3 acre lot with neighbors your could throw a biscuit at, and bit the bullet and moved out to the country on 4 acres. Don't regret it one bit. My suggestion is of you decide to move, check the zoning laws and restrictions, even though i live in an agricultural county, I went to zoning/assessor office BEFORE I bought my house and checked into the restrictions/laws on building. Luckily for me there was none, LOL but if you were to move, I would check into that knowing in future you want to build.

 

[oifla]

A few feet bigger, perhaps...not likely going to go for the big size you want.

If you have neighbors, I doubt seriously they will give a variance for the metal construction, unless you can get them all to agree in person and on paper and appear at the hearing.

I would talk to them, and see what types (if any) variances they have allowed in your area, in the past few years and what they might do to meet you half way

I understand the metal building is an issue. I'm currently researching properties in my neighborhood with metal buildings and trying to talk to owners about when they were put up and under what conditions.

The extra square footage is more important to me than the metal building.

 

[oifla]

Might want to go talk to your local zoning office and ask them what luck/ success others have had getting similar variances from the Zoning Board. I found the people at the zoning desk where I live to be quite helpful.

I understand this approach and have generally found City Hall to be helpful. My preference, however, is to have some potential options on hand before I step up to the desk, hence the post.

 

[oifla]

I've ben involved in some variances.

IMHO, going a little larger is often not a problem as long as:
1. you're staying within the required setbacks
2. your neighbors are supportive
3. it doesn't dwarf your house or the other buildings in the neighborhood
4. you have a good reason for needing it.

But going to a metal building is likely to be more problematic as people may see it as industrial / degrading their property value.

I'm too cheap to pay for a stick-built garage is not usually an accepted reason...

The reason for the metal building is not solely cost-based, I prefer the flexibility of metal buildings over traditional framing. Setbacks or size should not be an issue, I agree the neighbors will likely be critical.

 

[oifla]

When you went to your local building department office, what did they say?

See above. So far I've only raised the question in terms of "if I want to build a garage, what is allowed." Before I go to the next step, I want to have a clearer idea of how to best present the issue.

 

[oifla]

Build a metal frame building.
For the walls use SIP panels as they are finished on the ninside and insulated already.
Then stucco the outside

Metal frame + SIP is a possibility. Stucco is not (at least not without variance).

 

[oifla]

If there are larger buildings in the neighborhood already then you can ask for relief in a variance hearing. If there are none or if any existing conform to the requirements then its very likely you'll get turned down. You need to show a "hardship" or not being able to enjoy the same privilege as your neighbors. Just wanting a bigger building won't get it.

Right, the need is the issue, hence the post. I've gotten a couple of good ideas from this post so far.

 

[oifla]

Years ago I wanted to add a large two story shop addition to my existing small shop and garage. Since the county building dept. had never seen this done before, they were hesitant to approve my plans although my proposed addition was not against their code in any way. It took me a year to jump through all the obstacles they placed in my path, but I did prevail. One thing I did find out was that all code is subject to interpretation, and the field inspector has the authority to approve what the plan checkers will not.
Once I made friends with the inspector, he approved everything I wanted to do and I ended up with a 2700 sq/ft shop behind my 1170 sq/ft house. It's never easy fighting city hall, but it can be done if you are persistent, and learn how the system works.

Thanks. I will remember your story as I start on what is likely to be a similar adventure (hopefully it will end in the same way).

 

[oifla]

What possible reasons for the exception do you have? If they approve yours they will have to approve everyone else who asks. Not a chance you get your changes.

I understand where you are coming from and agree the possible reasons are critical. I have some ideas, will need to develop them into a convincing proposal. It's not going to be easy but I think there is a chance, every rule has its exceptions.

 

[oifla]

Your request will be dead upon arrival -

You want to go with a metal bldg -

Going from 580 sq ft to 870 sq ft is more than "a little bigger"

OK, agreed, I understated what is a 50% increase. It sounds brutal to say '50%' larger where the difference between 580 and 870 (numerically anyway) does not.

I understand that the metal building will be tough (see above), however, there are some exceptions in similarly zoned areas.

Board of Zoning Appeals
https://bloomington.in.gov/sections/viewSection.php?section_id=150


Extending carport rafters
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235121

I have the link for the Zoning appeals, not sure what my previous post has to do with anything dunno

 

[oifla]

I went through this and the best thing you can do is personally go through the zoning ordinance and verify it is correct plus look for footnotes/sidenote ie loop holes. I have a good size chunk of property but it is residential zoning (r-1) which limited me to 860sqft. I found a asterisk next the agricultural zoning (a-1) that stated that the rules for A-1 applied to R-1 if the property was over 1.5acres. This was stated no were in the R-1 section and the twp officials were not volunteering this info either holding me to the 860sqft outbuilding. Needless to say the twp had no grounds to deny my building at that point but why did I to dig this up on my own?

A very good suggestion. I'm currently making my way through the zoning ordinances to see where I might be able to find an opening.

 

[oifla]

I needed a variance to build my garage. It was a time consuming and difficult task. I had a friend on the zoning board and I hired the towns former attorney who had some pull and it came down to the wire, but just barely squeezed by.

One thing I learned, you need to claim hardship or something that benefits the town. I told them I needed the garage so my Jeeps and trailer wouldn't have to be parked on the street creating an eye sour. Good luck.

Another good suggestion, thanks.

 

[oifla]

Every town is different. Around here there isn't a specific "max garage size", just a max footprint ground coverage of 20% and there must be enough room to relocate the septic system should the current one fail. Please post the exact verbiage of the zoning law. Does it actually say "garage". If yes, then redefine part of it as anything other than "garage space". A garage is where you park your car. A workshop or storage building isn't necessarily a "garage". You may just need to play with the wording on your plans.

Yes, it says garage, but there is some ambiguity in the description of the zoning limitations. I agree the wording is the key, that's where there may be some space.

 

[oifla]

Just to be clear. Is it a zoning rule or a subdivision covenant? I find many people think the government will enforce covenenants, they will not. They only enforce the rules they make. What is the basis for this zoning rule. Usually zoning is based upon lot size, coverage of the lot, setbacks, etc. It usually does not deal with type of construction or building size for anything other then the residence.
If you are restricted from not building a metal building and only building to a certain size, it sure sounds like a subdivision covenant. The city cannot grant you a variance for this, that requires the owners of the subdivision to act.

It's a zoning rule. It is written to limit size and materials (hence no metal buildings).

 

[oifla]

To the OP, I take it moving out to the country is out of the question,

Yes, we'd like to stay here. It's a big enough house and lot for our purposes, the garage/workspace area is a must.

I had this same problem 4 years ago, I sold that .3 acre lot with neighbors your could throw a biscuit at, and bit the bullet and moved out to the country on 4 acres. Don't regret it one bit. My suggestion is of you decide to move, check the zoning laws and restrictions, even though i live in an agricultural county, I went to zoning/assessor office BEFORE I bought my house and checked into the restrictions/laws on building. Luckily for me there was none, LOL but if you were to move, I would check into that knowing in future you want to build.

Yes, I looked into this before deciding to stay put. The county is much easier than the city and it would not be a problem to build a good size shop if we moved but we in terms of balancing out all our needs, in the medium-length it is better for us to stay here.

 

[jives]

If the zoning board does not approve, what about 2 buildings. . . a 24 x 24 garage and a
separate shop?

 

[Zeke]

Years ago I wanted to add a large two story shop addition to my existing small shop and garage. Since the county building dept. had never seen this done before, they were hesitant to approve my plans although my proposed addition was not against their code in any way. It took me a year to jump through all the obstacles they placed in my path, but I did prevail. One thing I did find out was that all code is subject to interpretation, and the field inspector has the authority to approve what the plan checkers will not.
Once I made friends with the inspector, he approved everything I wanted to do and I ended up with a 2700 sq/ft shop behind my 1170 sq/ft house. It's never easy fighting city hall, but it can be done if you are persistent, and learn how the system works.

This is the one thing that most people never find out about until it's too late. It can go both ways, good and bad. It always helps to make an appointment for a pre project inspection. It only takes a few minutes for the field inspector to look at the plans and the site. If he sees a red flag at that point you can correct it. If he sees good to go it's not likely he will renege on his approval.

More than once I have taken a set of plans and removed the staples then placing them on a glass table with a light underneath. I have found critical support columns in the middle of a room instead of in the wall. If you show the inspector that you understand the plans that will help. If you don't then you need a contractor that does.

 

[DekeT]

OK, agreed, I understated what is a 50% increase. It sounds brutal to say '50%' larger where the difference between 580 and 870 (numerically anyway) does not.

I understand that the metal building will be tough (see above), however, there are some exceptions in similarly zoned areas.



I have the link for the Zoning appeals, not sure what my previous post has to do with anything dunno

Those exceptions may have been built prior to the zoning rules. And are those metal building in "similar" zones or the exact same zoning. Don't kid yourself, 870 versus 580 is a huge difference any way you want to frame it.

 

[jimindm]

I have been through the process a few times. Also being a neighborhood leader I have been a part of many, as far as being for or against.

The first thing I would say is look around at what you have, and how it looks. Does your house need paint, siding falling off, dead trees standing or down. Every neighborhood has that guy that wants more, but does nothing for what he has.

Next. How do you get along with your neighbors. Likely they will have a say in what you will be able to do. If you do not know them, go meet them. If you do know them, explain your intentions. Get some feedback as you talk to more neighbors. Before you talk to them, figure out exactly what you want, and do everything as to not changing the plan.

I have had projects pitched to me, that when I first heard about them, I did not ever think a good thought about, and ended up I was all for it. I have also had what I thought was good ones, that just were not all that great when I learned more. Usually neighbors so many feet away will be noticed by the town. The town will want feedback from them. You need to talk to them about your project, because that notice may not sound like anything you are trying to accomplish.

Proof of hardship is the hardest to justify, and is usually a requirement for any board of adjustment. I have seen something as simple as a race car and trailer being enough.

One other thing shoot for the moon and figure on settling for less. Many times they will work with you some. You may not get what you want, and they may not get it either. Some where in the middle will work for both.

Talking to the building department is the best. At any hearing that you will have, they will likely make a recommendation of passing or denial. Figure out what side you will be on. If they are on the passage side, you may not want to say much during the hearing. If they are for denial, you had better plan on taking all of your allotted time, and maybe the wife too, to address the problem areas.

Last but not least, unless there are other metal building very close to you, you likely will not get a metal building. Seriously who would want one in your neighborhood. If you want a larger garage then you should be able to make it blend in with your house and neighborhood. You would have to really show me some hardship to get a metal building.

 

[volleyball]

If the building will be 50% oversized already, how much flexibility do you need?
How well will the design compliment the house. A home workshop that looks like a home workshop will go a long way further than a commercial garage with a house next to it.
There are lots that you can do that will stop the structure from looking as big as it is.
If the neighbors cannot see the sides and back, they may be able to be in metal, or maybe metal with a brick lower section.