Basic entry level SCFM requirements, Body work

[uparms]

Garage is finished and starting to plan electrical.

Kind of related, what size compressor will suffice for basic body work air tools.

Sand blasting cabinet, DA, Random orbit sander, air nibler and HVLP paint guns.

My bottom starting point is 60 gal ingersol, 5 or 7.5 HP, 15 CFM. I can go to 80 gal price. Based on cost will probably have to be reciprocating compressor, but I have been looking at screw types?

I don't need brand advice here, just gallon, HP and SCFM advice.

Single person garage, one car at a time.

Any advice is appriciated.

Thank you from Delaware

Uparms

 

[Shadowdog500]

Garage is finished and starting to plan electrical.

Kind of related, what size compressor will suffice for basic body work air tools.

Sand blasting cabinet, DA, Random orbit sander, air nibler and HVLP paint guns.

My bottom starting point is 60 gal ingersol, 5 or 7.5 HP, 15 CFM. I can go to 80 gal price. Based on cost will probably have to be reciprocating compressor, but I have been looking at screw types?

I don't need brand advice here, just gallon, HP and SCFM advice.

Single person garage, one car at a time.

Any advice is appriciated.

Thank you from Delaware

Uparms

You listed three of the top demanding tools on a home air system. I hava a DA sander, blast cabinet, and a detail HVLP paint gun and my 18CFM, 60 gallon 5 hp ingersol Rand compressor has no problem keeping up with any of them.

You may want to run the wires for worst case.

Chris

 

[stage20]

60 gallon 5hp minimum. all these people saying you can do it with a smaller compressor have theirs running all the time or their tools are not running like they should. wheather its noticeable or not.

 

[Shadowdog500]

60 gallon 5hp minimum. all these people saying you can do it with a smaller compressor have theirs running all the time or their tools are not running like they should. wheather its noticeable or not.

If you are going to be doing primarily body work and painting you may want to go bigger. You will also be big on drying and filtering the air. The blast cabinet is where you will probably notice it the worst. And if your air isn't dry, you will have clumping problems in the blast cabinet. Not sure if you would notice it in the paint gun. I run my lines at full pressure and regulate the pressure down to 40psi on the gun. The pressure in my airlines varry from 90 to 135PSI, so the 40psi pressure in my gun should stay the same no matter what.

Chris

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You don't want the maintenance or noise of a basic screw. You REALLY don't want the cost of a quiet one.

A good recip will treat you just fine.

Tommy

 

[zkling]

For what you want to do 20CFM @ 90psi would be a very healthy base point.

Realize that the only thing tank capacity will affect is your duty cycle of the pump. With that said at the output you are looking for you will be into a 80 possibly 120gal tank.

 

[Kevin54]

I have a 5 horse 80 gallon 2 stage IR, and if I use a DA, it is an air hog and the compressor cycles quite a bit. It states it is a 15.8 CFM.

If you plan on doing quite a bit of body work, get the largest compressor you can afford. If you can't afford a larger compressor, get a good set of headphones to kill the noise some. A small compressor will cycle so much when you are using a DA or air file that it will almost run constantly plus you will be waiting on it to catch up.

A new 2 stage IR, 80 gallon, will run you right at $1000 unless you find one on sale

 

[theoldwizard1]

You listed three of the top demanding tools on a home air system. I hava a DA sander, blast cabinet, and a detail HVLP paint gun and my 18CFM, 60 gallon 5 hp ingersol Rand compressor has no problem keeping up with any of them.

+1 !

Too many folks around here are into "overkill" with someone else's money !

 

[uparms]

Wow, happy holidays and thanks for the fast responses.!!

Sounds like 80 Gal, 7.5 HP is starting point for me. I don't mind 1k to 2K price. Won't be painting that many cars and frames.

Is this below overkill and is the 60 gal going to be a PIA. Noise for the area is a small concern?

FREE SHIPPING — Quincy QGS Rotary Screw Compressor — 7.5 HP, 230 Volt Single Phase, 60 Gallon, 21.2 CFM, Model# QGS7.5
Item# 25355

Thank you all!

 

[stage20]

If you have that nice of a budget look into a used compressor. You'll get larger and keep your bank. Be aware of 3 phase motors unless you have it available. I see big 80 120 gallon compressors for 350 to 650 that could be 2500 to 3000 new.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Wow, happy holidays and thanks for the fast responses.!!

Sounds like 80 Gal, 7.5 HP is starting point for me. I don't mind 1k to 2K price. Won't be painting that many cars and frames.

Is this below overkill and is the 60 gal going to be a PIA. Noise for the area is a small concern?

FREE SHIPPING — Quincy QGS Rotary Screw Compressor — 7.5 HP, 230 Volt Single Phase, 60 Gallon, 21.2 CFM, Model# QGS7.5
Item# 25355

Thank you all!

The one you listed is a $5000 compressor. If you have a budget like that I would spend the extra grand to get the same model with a built in air dryer.http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-4152002727-Air-Compressor/p10834.html

That would definitely meet your needs and then some.

Chris

 

[uparms]

"3 phase motors unless you have it available"

I could use an education on the above. Do I need to know if I can get a 3 phase line into the garage from the run off my 200 amp service in the house??? Do I need to know if my house is 3 phase? I don't know squat about electrical.

I know I hope to run a line off my house 200 amp box in the basement about 15-30 yards away from garage depending on where I come out of the house with it. 36 inch deep, 2 inch grey conduit in foundation of garage is already in place. Garage is 12 feet off house.

I hope to have a plug or hardwire for the compressor as well as two more "high volt" lines for 2 welding locations. After that it is all sockets, switches, GFCI, and lights.

 

[uparms]

the 5K screw unit would have to be a long term save for and be the max, can't add another grand to it.

Most likely stay under the 2500 range.

 

[Shadowdog500]

"3 phase motors unless you have it available"

I could use an education on the above. Do I need to know if I can get a 3 phase line into the garage from the run off my 200 amp service in the house??? Do I need to know if my house is 3 phase? I don't know squat about electrical.

I know I hope to run a line off my house 200 amp box in the basement about 15-30 yards away from garage depending on where I come out of the house with it. 36 inch deep, 2 inch grey conduit in foundation of garage is already in place. Garage is 12 feet off house.

I hope to have a plug or hardwire for the compressor as well as two more "high volt" lines for 2 welding locations. After that it is all sockets, switches, GFCI, and lights.

Three phase is what is used in commercial factories. Your house does not have three phase, and you don't need three phase for a home shop. I can't imagine you needing a three phase compressor for any home application. If you do wind up with a piece of three phase equipment like an old lathe or mill that came out of a factory, you can buy phase converters to turn your 220v split phase into 3 phase.

I have 100Amp 220v run from my main pannel in the house to a sub pannel in my shop. I have the 50A 220v welder outlet about a foot from the sub Pannel so the run isn't too far. My lathe and mill are not 3 phase so I don't need a converter.

Chris

 

[rburke65]

I am just talking noise here.....I have a Champion 5 hp., 2 stage and when running you can stand next to it and converse without a problem ..... very quite at 805 rpm....IIRC.

 

[mharmon]

A screw one would be wonderful but spend some of that money elsewhere if possible ie air drier or other toys. I have an old quincy 325 that I love. As much air as I could ever need. Did I need a 100 gal tank? No but that is what I could find used and reasonably priced. Everyone thought I was nuts going that big but I have yet to regret it.

Moral of the story. Get quality and more capacity than you need. For the amount they yet used in a home shop a used industrial unit will allow you to save money and outfit the rest of the shop faster

 

[Shadowdog500]

the 5K screw unit would have to be a long term save for and be the max, can't add another grand to it.

Most likely stay under the 2500 range.

You should be able to get everything you need for $2,500.

If you are running a bead blast cabinet or a paint gun you will need something to dry the air. I have a dessicant wall mount dryer followed by a filter. Which is well under $100. I also use the small $2 disposable filter/dryer on my paint gun as one last chance to dry the air.

Dry air is not a "nice to have" with a blast cabinet or a paint gun, it is a must have for that type of work.


Here is a link to me taking a sound measurment of my compressor when I first got it for the "how loud is you compressor" thread from a few years ago.

The sound don't bother me, and I found that most air tools make more noise than the compressor. For consideration of my neighbors I try not to make much noise after 10PM unless I'm in a pinch to get something running by the next morning.
You can see my sub pannel and the welding plug distance in the beginning of this video.


Chris

 

[stage20]

"3 phase motors unless you have it available"

I could use an education on the above. Do I need to know if I can get a 3 phase line into the garage from the run off my 200 amp service in the house??? Do I need to know if my house is 3 phase? I don't know squat about electrical.

im not an electrician but the 3 phase will come from the main line from the power company. most of the time in my area its only ran for commercial type environments.

i would make sure if you buy a used compressor that it is 100% a single phase motor on the pump.

 

[79firebird]

If you run a good da it uses less air then a cheap one. I can run my da on a 26 gal husky no prob for hours run a cheap $50 one and run out of air in under 3 min. I use a 5hp 80 gal now and ive sanded and painted meany cars no prob. If i need more air i use a second 60 gal tank i have at my outher shop also.

 

[Streetbu]

I would say two stage, at least 80 gallon, maybe 120. Should he able to find a nice NEW one for about $1400. Plan on another $750 give or take to do all the plumbing and wiring for it if you do the work yourself.

 

[dhubbard422]

You asked for gallon, HP and SCFM advice... here's a chart that describes flow requirements for various air tools

A nibbler or a spray gun doesn't require a high flow rate, 3 - 7cfm covers both of them. A body sander is roughly 5cfm while a DA sander will require more, roughly 11 - 13cfm. The blast cabinet will tax the air compressor the most, but a smaller cabinet with a small nozzle and modest air pressures will work fine on 12cfm, but a larger cabinet with bigger nozzles can require many times this flow... If you don't already own the blast cabinet, you may want to start looking at cabinets and the cfm requirements of the cabinets that you are interested in. A blast cabinet is the biggest variable that must be better defined in order to size your air compressor.

I've painted cars with a 1hp, 5 - 8cfm, 12 gal portable compressor. It wasn't ideal, but it worked. When I had no other options, I've even run a DA sander with the same compressor, but then I'm ok with frequent breaks.

My shop, which is currently in work, will have all of the same air compressor needs as you described, but I believe that I can get by with a more modest budget, 3 - 5hp, 12 - 18cfm, 60 - 80gal, and some patience.

 

[rlitman]

A nibbler or a spray gun doesn't require a high flow rate, 3 - 7cfm covers both of them. A body sander is roughly 5cfm while a DA sander will require more, roughly 11 - 13cfm. The blast cabinet will tax the air compressor the most, but a smaller cabinet with a small nozzle and modest air pressures will work fine on 12cfm, but a larger cabinet with bigger nozzles can require many times this flow...

+1

The important thing to consider is not only which tools require the most airflow, but also which ones will be in continuous use. The DA is a tool which you may put your palm down on, and keep it running non-stop for some serious time. If you're more careful with the trigger, the blasting cabinet may not use the full nameplate cfm the nozzle requires.

If you run a good da it uses less air then a cheap one. I can run my da on a 26 gal husky no prob for hours run a cheap $50 one and run out of air in under 3 min.

Agreed. Dynabrade claims 18 CFM for their 5" and 6" DA sanders (I've got an older 10kRPM and a newer 12kRPM of theirs). Knockoffs are known to either have less power, or use much more air.
My 25 CFM compressor has no trouble keeping up with non-stop use of my Dynabrades.

 

[Tawn]

At a minimum, I highly recommend getting a 2-stage. You will thank yourself for going with a 80 gallon tank as well.

 

[sberry]

yes, 2 stage 5 hp and over 15 cfm. This runs a sander near full blast. I am not a fan of the 71/2 on home electric, it can work but a 5 is easier on the starts.