The VISES of Garage Journal

[jreb10]

Drivesit, i saw that. The dust cover is a non issue for me as ca have a resource for this size vise. The jaws, that's an in person thing. I wont buy a vise with damaged jaw supports.

One nice thing about these Wiltons is that i can get parts. That Simplex is missing a pipe jaw, which means im probably passing.

Joe, I'm not sure we should assume the Simplex jaw is missing just based on the photo. Look at my Simplex from a similar angle in the photo below. You can't see the single pipe jaw, but it sure was there.

From what I have seen in my Simplex during disassembly, I am very impressed. Very solid and very tight in construction. That might be a very good vise.



Here is mine from a different angle. You can see the other pipe jaw, and how recessed it is.

 

[sgs236]

Thanks for all the help Drivesit and everyone else here that posts such valuable info! I have another quick question for you gurus. I saw another Cadet model Wilton pop up. It looks to be in good shape, but it is painted already which worries me a bit. Is there a good way to determine if there are any welds or cracks beneath the paint? Since it's Craigslist, I will be able to see and touch before I buy, but as this would be my first vise, are there any big gotchas or anything I should pay particular attention to? Thanks.

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/4823653572.html

Considering how easy it is to add pictures to a craiglist ad, it always raises a red flag when a seller posts only a few pictures. You don't get a good look at the jaws, dynamic, or the spindle. It might be OK, but I wouldn't drive very far to check it out.

 

[joe.striper]

Joe, I'm not sure we should assume the Simplex jaw is missing just based on the photo. Look at my Simplex from a similar angle in the photo below. You can't see the single pipe jaw, but it sure was there.

From what I have seen in my Simplex during disassembly, I am very impressed. Very solid and very tight in construction. That might be a very good vise.



Here is mine from a different angle. You can see the other pipe jaw, and how recessed it is.

I spoke to the seller this morning. Its missing the jaw for certain, and he now says he wants $130 because he's seen these 'online' for $300. What can you do...I told him I was a pass unless I could find that jaw. And quite frankly, at that price its just too much for me. i don't need projects.

4.5" jaws. Clearly a model 43, which i haven't been able to get much on. 2.5 hours from me...I'm passing

 

[McBrownie]

I spoke to the seller this morning. Its missing the jaw for certain, and he now says he wants $130 because he's seen these 'online' for $300. What can you do...I told him I was a pass unless I could find that jaw. And quite frankly, at that price its just too much for me. i don't need projects.

4.5" jaws. Clearly a model 43, which i haven't been able to get much on. 2.5 hours from me...I'm passing

I always laugh a bit when people equate "seeing it online for $300" with "it is worth $300". The reason they see it on line for $300 is because IT ISN'T SELLING!

 

[joe.striper]

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4821180907.html

Heres a deal I like. Steel table AND vise, $225. 5" Prentiss. I am NOT pursuing this so it is free to go

 

[jakemac]

His ad still says $100.
I have no use for a seller that raises his price above the original asking price. That's called fraud. Do you're homework before you throw a number out there.

He needs to remove the ad and post a new one before he can ask for a higher price. Flag his CL ad and have it removed. I'd keep a note with his info and never deal with that seller again.

 

[joe.striper]

His ad still says $100.
I have no use for a seller that raises his price above the original asking price. That's called fraud. Do you're homework before you throw a number out there.

He needs to remove the ad and post a new one before he can ask for a higher price. Flag his CL ad and have it removed. I'd keep a note with his info and never deal with that seller again.

Jake, If I felt he was an institutional seller, like me, I'd do that. But in my opinion he way have been clumsily trying to bid me up to head off my desire to bid him down, know what I mean? The guy inherited this vise and a Columbian D44 when he bought his house so he is a bit of a newbie. I would have hammered him but why when I wasn't going to buy it anyway. I'm a lover NOT a fighter.

When he said that to me I cooled immediately on the deal. There are a LOT of vises out there around here and new stuff is coming up all the time plus I can travel if need be. Working on a 6" vise in ME as we speak. waiting for pics. Fingers crossed...

 

[oakundeisen]

My father-in-law circa 1975 with a Rock Island in the foreground. Thought the experts would be able to give me more info on the model. I've tried to enlarge it but unable to read the model. The swivel 'C' is a good clue. The vise is 'no longer in the family'.

 

[jreb10]

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4821180907.html

Heres a deal I like. Steel table AND vise, $225. 5" Prentiss. I am NOT pursuing this so it is free to go

While we are complaining of poor CL sellers practices, is that some "strategically placed" blue tape I see on the end of the slide? No mention of the common Prentiss crack in the seller's description either.

 

[exmaxima1]

Just got this guy for christmas....dont like the color so I'm going to go thru it and repaint it.

What's wrong with that color? I just did my Pat Pending Wilton a month ago in the same color!

 

[thursday]

My father-in-law circa 1975 with a Rock Island in the foreground. Thought the experts would be able to give me more info on the model. I've tried to enlarge it but unable to read the model. The swivel 'C' is a good clue. The vise is 'no longer in the family'.

Rock Island #143 with missing pipe jaws.

 

[oakundeisen]

Rock Island #143 with missing pipe jaws.

right on - thanks - that didn't take long.

 

[thursday]

An hour to identify is pretty slow for us Vise fiends. Usually we'll beat your average drive-thru at Mcdonalds.

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

Just finished cleaning up my old reed vise with some fresh paint. The handle was severely bent, it's not perfect but it's good enough for a working vise. I used a torch, ball pein, straight edge and a dolly to straighten it. Just waiting for some brass jaw caps in the mail to finish it off.

Edit: The paint used was Rustoleum. I brushed on the primer and color, two coats each.

 

[Craptain]

Nice job Jake. Just a good working vise.

 

[joe.striper]

Ok vice-braniacs, here's one for you. Penn 526. 5" jaws. Attached to a gorgeous welding table. He wants 375 for both, up near Burlington VT. I cannot find a damned thing online about this brand. Handsome vise don't ya think?

I give up on trying to rotate this pic.

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

Nice job Jake. Just a good working vise.

Thank you, It was given to me by a family friend a few years ago in very rough shape, I'm very happy with it. Next step is to instal the brass jaw caps when they get here and build a stout bench to mount it to

 

[va.grouseman]

Nice looking vise Joe.---Doesn't look to be beaten to death.---And I can't find one in the entire index, and don't know if I've ever seen one that brand.---Just when you think you couldn't possibly see something new, there it is.---Well new to me.
If anybody could produce one or a poster of one it'd be b100.

 

[drivesitfar]

VA and Joe: i'm pretty sure Penn vises were Prentiss vise company's economy line of vises and i own a 5 incher and it's a tank. mine was used almost daily by the same person for 50 years before i bought it when he moved. not sure of the size or numbering system of the one on the steel bench so maybe B100 or another person has that part.

Jake: nice looking Reed

Oak: i love that picture of your FIL and it looks ancient. damned if i hadn't graduated from High School a year before that picture was taken. anybody notice the thickness of that wood bench?

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Thanks for all the help Drivesit and everyone else here that posts such valuable info! I have another quick question for you gurus. I saw another Cadet model Wilton pop up. It looks to be in good shape, but it is painted already which worries me a bit. Is there a good way to determine if there are any welds or cracks beneath the paint? Since it's Craigslist, I will be able to see and touch before I buy, but as this would be my first vise, are there any big gotchas or anything I should pay particular attention to? Thanks.

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/4823653572.html

I'll agree that paint can hide everything. However, given that there are a lot of pictures and the jaw face pictured looks good, it would be worth a look.

 

[exmaxima1]

I'll agree that paint can hide everything. However, given that there are a lot of pictures and the jaw face pictured looks good, it would be worth a look.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how a Cadet with bent hold down handles, chewed up jaw screws, and sloppy paint qualifies as "collector quality", let alone $150. What am I missing?

 

[va.grouseman]

Drivesit, have you ever posted any pictures of the Penn in the past.---I need to put one or two in the index.

 

[Von Der Pfalz]

Posted a Bridgeport vise recently my wife got me for Christmas, picked it up a week ago....here's the finished product!

Stripped, wire-wheeled, hand sanded some spots. Wanted to blast it, but with being off from work, I couldn't wait until I got back to finish it. Used Rustoleum Hammered paint, after a coupe coats of primer, with satin black for the lettering. Polished all exposed metal except for the jaw faces. Coated everything in a couple coats of TurtleWax Hardshell Wax, then sprayed down with silicone lube, and used antisieze on all contact points between rotary base and vise. Came out better than I had hoped. will be plenty enough for a drill press vise. Threw in a vanity pic with the Yost 33C.

 

[drivesitfar]

Chat: all Wilton vises are not created equal so don't be fooled that a Wilton Cadet looks like a bullet vise. that one doesn't look bad, but for that much money you should be able to get a 4.5 or 5 inch old Reed, Prentiss, Columbian, Rock Island or a few other old vises.

VA: i think i did post mine sometime last year and i seem to remember only one was on the big vise thread or a thread of it's own when i bought mine. i just posted it so can you mark this page and post #?

thanks for all your awesome searches that we've been collecting over on the Vise Repair 101 thread on post #2 that puts Dayid's list to shame.

Von: very nice

 

[va.grouseman]

Sorry Drivesit.---Looked at the pictures and didn't enlarge to see the logo.---Thanks, I'll get both of them in the index.---I've been a little lazy, but I usually let the thread get about 100 pages ahead then catch up, which don't take too long.---I'm back at page 1096, so it's about time I get cracking.---I am afraid there is a whole lot of vises that were posted on individual threads that didn't make it to the vises thread.---There are 4148 threads in General tool discussion.---Needle in a haystack.

 

[oakundeisen]

Oak: i love that picture of your FIL and it looks ancient. damned if i hadn't graduated from High School a year before that picture was taken. anybody notice the thickness of that wood bench?

Thanks, 5th Gen PA Independent Oil and Gas producer - ggfather was at Drake's Well. We have logs on how many quarts of Nitro Glycerine each well took to frac (late 1800's and detonated with dynamite). I am fortunate to have some of his pipe and threading tools. The Rock Island got away from me.

 

[va.grouseman]

Oak,---here's a link to the 143 from Dayid's list.---Still has one pipe jaw.---Looks like yours.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1487072&postcount=2062

 

[Craptain]

Thanks for all the help Drivesit and everyone else here that posts such valuable info! I have another quick question for you gurus. I saw another Cadet model Wilton pop up. It looks to be in good shape, but it is painted already which worries me a bit. Is there a good way to determine if there are any welds or cracks beneath the paint? Since it's Craigslist, I will be able to see and touch before I buy, but as this would be my first vise, are there any big gotchas or anything I should pay particular attention to? Thanks.

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/tls/4823653572.html

There is so much wrong with that vise I wouldn't even waste gas to go look. It "might" be a good vise, but with the paint you can't be sure. Look at the pictures and you will see a half assed paint job, covering the jaws and even part of the slide. Sloppy work at least. The dust cap appears to be missing, and it is partly mis-represented as a bullet in the tags, which it is not. It looks as if someone has done a quick clean and paint job and now wants top dollar.

JMHO.

Edit: In fairness the seller says he cleaned and painted, not restored. Still high dollar.

 

[rmalkow2]

There is so much wrong with that vise I wouldn't even waste gas to go look. It "might" be a good vise, but with the paint you can't be sure. Look at the pictures and you will see a half assed paint job, covering the jaws and even part of the slide. Sloppy work at least. The dust cap appears to be missing, and it is partly mis-represented as a bullet in the tags, which it is not. It looks as if someone has done a quick clean and paint job and now wants top dollar.

JMHO.

Edit: In fairness the seller says he cleaned and painted, not restored. Still high dollar.

So think of this as a teachable moment for many of us that do not have the vise experience and no real argument intended. I'm not seeing all the really big issues with this vise. I totally agree that the paint job is sloppy with paint covering jaws and areas that should be clean. But maybe this guy is not experienced either and just doesn't restore this stuff typically. Maybe he is guilty of being lazy with the masking tape but that is easily remedied. Are there other big issues my untrained eye does not see?? I'm always amazed at some of the repairs and cracks you guys spot from pictures as I don't see them the first time. I have to go back to review pics after reading some comments. The price may be high but it could also be negotiable and only some conversation will make this known for sure. The fact that he posted so many pictures from different angles leads me to think he is not really trying to hide anything.

 

[Tritonus]

What is "body makers vise"?

For example:
Reed 224 1/2 or a Prentiss 26

 

[BJ42LX]

The dust cap appears to be missing, and it is partly mis-represented as a bullet in the tags, which it is not.

I don't see a photo of the back of the vise - does the Cadet come with a dust cap normally?

The tags don't bother me. That just makes him a bigger target for someone's search.

If I didn't have one already I'd be interested in that Cadet for, $40 - $50.

 

[TreePointer]

What is "body makers vise"?

For example:
Reed 224 1/2 or a Prentiss 26

See also "coachmakers" or "coach makers" vise. A large jaw surface area for building horse drawn carriages (coaches) and later vehicle bodies to fasten to frames.

 

[Outlawmws]

There is so much wrong with that vise I wouldn't even waste gas to go look. It "might" be a good vise, but with the paint you can't be sure. Look at the pictures and you will see a half assed paint job, covering the jaws and even part of the slide. Sloppy work at least. The dust cap appears to be missing, and it is partly mis-represented as a bullet in the tags, which it is not. It looks as if someone has done a quick clean and paint job and now wants top dollar.

JMHO.

Edit: In fairness the seller says he cleaned and painted, not restored. Still high dollar.

I don't see a photo of the back of the vise - does the Cadet come with a dust cap normally?

The tags don't bother me. That just makes him a bigger target for someone's search.

If I didn't have one already I'd be interested in that Cadet for, $40 - $50.

Dust cap answer: No they didn't...

And ditto on the "tags" - It's not a "vice (in this country...) Columbian Craftsman" either, it's to get search hits, so no misrepresentation at all...

Whether it is "high dollar" (leaving aside any condition issues it may or may not have), value is very dependent on area, in some areas he would have no problem getting that price.

 

[drivesitfar]

Triton: Tree is correct and coachmaker's vise is what it actually says on the catalog page for my Prentiss #26. some guys think these were used for bending metal which isn't their intended use and some have broke because of that. i saw a nice looking one on some Craigslist ad just the other day with a huge braze weld holding the dynamic jaw onto the vise that was hard to see if you weren't looking for it.

they do work well for wood as long as there isn't too much twisting.

Craptain: i don't see a ton wrong with the Cadet, but i wouldn't pay that much for it. of course i don't need a vise and i remember the first vise i bought 30 years ago i paid $200 for a Zyliss and i still own it, but i needed a vise and it looked like it would do the job and it has when i used it. the jaws on the Cadet looked a little used, but it is a 60 year old vise so probably why he painted them instead of trying to remove them which sometimes creates another issue. i don't know as much as i could about the Wilton vises that are not bullets or C series, but i'm betting all will work to some degree if you don't use them as an anvil or a press. do you see any cracks or issues i (we) missed that haven't been mentioned?

 

[joe.striper]

So think of this as a teachable moment for many of us that do not have the vise experience and no real argument intended. I'm not seeing all the really big issues with this vise. I totally agree that the paint job is sloppy with paint covering jaws and areas that should be clean. But maybe this guy is not experienced either and just doesn't restore this stuff typically. Maybe he is guilty of being lazy with the masking tape but that is easily remedied. Are there other big issues my untrained eye does not see?? I'm always amazed at some of the repairs and cracks you guys spot from pictures as I don't see them the first time. I have to go back to review pics after reading some comments. The price may be high but it could also be negotiable and only some conversation will make this known for sure. The fact that he posted so many pictures from different angles leads me to think he is not really trying to hide anything.

where to begin...i dont have nearly the experience many do on here, but i have seen in person many phenomenal vises as well as a lot of junk. I am always suspicious of a restoration like this cadet. It hides too much and speaks to either a lack of desire to do a thorough cleaning (which would take an hour) before painting or a desire to defraud. Either way this seller spent 2 bucks in order to make 30 or 50 in additional profit. Ask yourself, if it had **** paint what would you pay? You know the answer, NOT 150.

i looked at the CL page that vise was on. There were other excellent choices all well under $100 that just needed some wire brushing and paint. Buy a couple of these and learn. If you make a mistake, which we all did at the start, don't make it an expensive one.

 

[bluebolt]

And ditto on the "tags" - It's not a "vice (in this country...) Columbian Craftsman" either, it's to get search hits, so no misrepresentation at all...

I agree, doing a Craigslist search for "vice" is how I found my 8" Reed/Columbian.

 

[rmalkow2]

where to begin...i dont have nearly the experience many do on here, but i have seen in person many phenomenal vises as well as a lot of junk. I am always suspicious of a restoration like this cadet. It hides too much and speaks to either a lack of desire to do a thorough cleaning (which would take an hour) before painting or a desire to defraud. Either way this seller spent 2 bucks in order to make 30 or 50 in additional profit. Ask yourself, if it had **** paint what would you pay? You know the answer, NOT 150.

i looked at the CL page that vise was on. There were other excellent choices all well under $100 that just needed some wire brushing and paint. Buy a couple of these and learn. If you make a mistake, which we all did at the start, don't make it an expensive one.

Good points all and thanks. I would definitely not pay the $150 so totally agree there but if I wanted this model as a keeper I would do some research first and be willing to pay a fair price. I also agree he probably thought he was increasing the value greatly by giving a fresh paint job. However in this case a poorly done paint job may hurt rather than help. Time will tell if he sells it. One lesson I'm hearing is that maybe the best way to re-sell a vise is to just leave it alone and take lots of good pics to give the best web view of what is offered. Or, at minimum just give it a good wire brushing to remove dirt and grime so any real imperfections ( or lack thereof)can be seen honestly.
Fully painted and restored vises have their place in the resale arena but need to be done with more care. But even a great paint job can hide a multitude of sins. So if he had masked it carefully and polished the jaw inserts etc, it could still have hidden issues.
Sorry for laboring over this one example but it was educational.

 

[jakemac]

No need to apologize. We've all hem'd and haw'd and agonized over an item that we really wanted but were unsure of. It can help to talk about it while you make a decision.

Often after deciding to walk away, we then torture ourselves about the one that got away. And sometimes if we pulled the trigger, we wish we hadn't.

'Ya spins the wheel, 'ya takes 'ya chances.

The more you learn what to look for, the less chance you'll make a mistake. But even experts get blindsided sometimes.

 

[taumac]

Well said Jake. I'm always learning something new even if sitting the not getting in on the action.

 

[chatofab]

where to begin...i dont have nearly the experience many do on here, but i have seen in person many phenomenal vises as well as a lot of junk. I am always suspicious of a restoration like this cadet. It hides too much and speaks to either a lack of desire to do a thorough cleaning (which would take an hour) before painting or a desire to defraud. Either way this seller spent 2 bucks in order to make 30 or 50 in additional profit. Ask yourself, if it had **** paint what would you pay? You know the answer, NOT 150.

i looked at the CL page that vise was on. There were other excellent choices all well under $100 that just needed some wire brushing and paint. Buy a couple of these and learn. If you make a mistake, which we all did at the start, don't make it an expensive one.

Thanks to everyone here for offering their expertise. It is immensely helpful to newbs like me when we are looking at buying used tools. I did receive a few more pictures from him and didn't see any glaring issues, but unless he comes down to the $75 ballpark I think I will pass on this one.