The VISES of Garage Journal

[balane]

For what it's worth here are my thoughts regarding Cadet vises having recently restored my first one.

1.) As far as I'm aware Wilton never officially used the term bullet but it became a term adopted by users. To me the word bullet indicates the shape and the enclosed round slide and stationary jaw. This vise definitely fits that description. I personally have no issue with this vise or a Tradesman being referred to as a bullet. I use that term when describing any of the three but, admittedly, I do so to get more hits on my listings.

2.) The quality of a Cadet is absolutely equal to Wilton's higher end vises. I see no difference in build quality between the two and consider the Cadets to be better made than Tradesman vises which I assume were the Cadet replacement line. I was very impressed with the Cadet I restored. The action and clamping power was terrific on it.

3.) I can't see any problems with the Cadet in the craigs list posting that chatofab is considering. In fact, it looks to be a very nice vise. I'm assuming that he painted the jaws because the owner doesn't own an impact driver and couldn't get the jaw inserts off. I would still inspect it thoroughly in person but, from the photos, it appears to be an exceptional example. I won't comment on price though, that's up to the buyer and his area/vise availability to determine. I think it would be a fair end-user price for my location.

 

[exmaxima1]

For what it's worth here are my thoughts regarding Cadet vises having recently restored my first one.

I know you've restored beaucoup Wiltons, so you would know:

--How much does your Cadet WEIGH relative to a standard Wilton Machinist vise of comparable jaw width?

--How much does a Machinist vise sell for in YOUR area? I get the impression that prices are much higher in the Pacific NW.

 

[va.grouseman]

Wilton baby bullet about to go off on E-bay in 14 minutes.---Already $500.00.---Now that's a show.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilton-No-2...835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2a08318b

Edited with pics for posterity because this is NOS.---Good for future reference.

 

[jakemac]

$643.99 ! Two snipers in the last seconds.

 

[va.grouseman]

Thank you fellows.---That was worth five thumbs up.

 

[balane]

This 3.5" cadet weighed 18 pounds, looks like my last 3.5" bullet weighed 18.8 pounds so very close there.

Prices up here are all over the place and wiltons are slim pickings to begin with, well good ones anyway. If that Cadet were a standard bullet I imagine it would be listed at $250-$300 in this area. Things are overpriced up here and they don't really sell, I see items constantly relisted for months on end. The PNW is not a good location to judge value.

 

[Scimonetti]

Well the guy with the 707 trojan finally got back to me with more detailed pictures.
Looking into the parker size and model numbers I would have expected the 707 to be 6 inches, as the 706 is 5.


Also the slide support is broken further in than anticipated.


It's a long sucker



Thought you guys might want to see this as I couldn't find any info on larger trojans

The price was 50 bucks by the way, if he lowers it I might snag it.

 

[454ragtop]

Man that thing has been ridden hard and put away wet. Fixed base vises in that size range aren't that hard to come by, I'd pass.

 

[joe.striper]

This 3.5" cadet weighed 18 pounds, looks like my last 3.5" bullet weighed 18.8 pounds so very close there.

Prices up here are all over the place and wiltons are slim pickings to begin with, well good ones anyway. If that Cadet were a standard bullet I imagine it would be listed at $250-$300 in this area. Things are overpriced up here and they don't really sell, I see items constantly relisted for months on end. The PNW is not a good location to judge value.

They are sooo expensive out there Balane, only benefit i can see to having all those pot smokers around. Ive got to get you a pallet of vises.....

One of my buddies who lives on LI just got a 4" Wilton Bullet, fixed base in good shape for $10!! 10 bucks!!!!!! I can pick up a 3" or 3.5" Wilton bullet for around $100. Im trying to pick up a complete 4.5" for 150...

Id kill myself if I was collecting out there

 

[KMScott]

Here is a few pic's taken from a Wilton Catalog #117 with a copyright date of 1963. The Baby vises are called Precision Jewelers' Vises.

The Cadets are a cheaper version of the Bullets and are listed as a Mechanics vise and another interesting note was they were painted brilliant orange. The weights do not match what Balane noted and these were only guaranteed for 3 years. I have one painted and waiting for it's new jaws from the Heat treater.

The Model SJ Swivel jaw vises shows a side hole for the extra drift pin. I wonder what the drift pin was for, possibly a spare? Note the side hole, I have not seen one with a side hole.

 

[joe.striper]

Man that thing has been ridden hard and put away wet. Fixed base vises in that size range aren't that hard to come by, I'd pass.

454, i respectfully disagree. This is a great first vise for restoration. Get it for 40-50 and wail away. Smooth it, fill it, make it beautiful. Really, what else do you have to do in VT, in January, in the cold. ..in the dark????

 

[jakemac]

454, i respectfully disagree. This is a great first vise for restoration. Get it for 40-50 and wail away. Smooth it, fill it, make it beautiful. Really, what else do you have to do in VT, in January, in the cold. ..in the dark????

He's still a teenager, it's the only thing he's allowed to do.

But he does it well.

 

[J HAV]

$643.99 ! Two snipers in the last seconds.

Lol, and to think I felt bad paying $300 and $384 for two NOS Baby Bullets. I was watching it too for kicks... The thought DID cross my mind, but I just couldn't pull the trigger.

 

[taumac]

Looks like a good deal for someone.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/tls/4825567918.html

 

[Scimonetti]

454, i respectfully disagree. This is a great first vise for restoration. Get it for 40-50 and wail away. Smooth it, fill it, make it beautiful. Really, what else do you have to do in VT, in January, in the cold. ..in the dark????

I just bought close to 500 pounds of machinery to restore or else I would have grabbed this. 15" planer and 5hp motor, jointer and 2 HP motor, first gen shopsmith and all accessories and some turning chisels. 100 bucks! I was all ready to buy it until this came up. Picking it up tomorrow.

 

[Outlawmws]

454, i respectfully disagree. This is a great first vise for restoration. Get it for 40-50 and wail away. Smooth it, fill it, make it beautiful. Really, what else do you have to do in VT, in January, in the cold. ..in the dark????

If it were jut the pitting I'd agree, but with it missing the Dynamic jaw support, I'm with 454 on this one...

 

[joe.striper]

If it were jut the pitting I'd agree, but with it missing the Dynamic jaw support, I'm with 454 on this one...

My apologies Obi-Wan. I DIDN'T realize it was missing the jaw Support ; therefore, i amend my response to........RUN.....RUN AWAY!!!!!

 

[Craptain]

I humbly apologize for stirring up discontent. But I think it brought out some valuable discussion, so I am not sorry for saying what I did. And I learned something.

In my area and with the local prices I still stand by my comments on the Wilton.

Thank you gentlemen till next time.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how a Cadet with bent hold down handles, chewed up jaw screws, and sloppy paint qualifies as "collector quality", let alone $150. What am I missing?

I only said it was worth a look. I never said that it was collector quality.
Here's how I see it:
1. The sloppy paint is what it is. Paint can be redone cheaply.
2. The chewed up jaw screws look like a failed attempt to remove the jaws. Many times I've had to drill out those screws.
3. The bent hold down handle(s) can be easily straightened by clamping it in a vise and bending it back to straight. Many guys have hammered on these handles. Fortunately, the metal used to make these handles is soft enough to bend before damaging other parts of the vise. I've straightened a lot of them.

For me, 150$ is way more than I would pay for that vise. That is something up to the buyer. But, I will always have a soft spot for old arn for the right price.

 

[Nuts]

Here is a few pic's taken from a Wilton Catalog #117 with a copyright date of 1963.

The Model SJ Swivel jaw vises shows a side hole for the extra drift pin. I wonder what the drift pin was for, possibly a spare? Note the side hole, I have not seen one with a side hole.

The actual wording in the catalog is taper pin and drift pin.

My guess is that the drift pin is used to loosen the taper pin by raising it from underneath. Or vise versa....

Doug

 

[zkling]

Man that thing has been ridden hard and put away wet. Fixed base vises in that size range aren't that hard to come by, I'd pass.

The missing shelf just seals the deal.

 

[sgs236]

Emmert Pattern Makers Vise - $125

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/4826111779.html

Not my listing, just posting in case someone here is interested. Says it has been repaired, but if nothing else, should be worth more in parts then what he is asking.

 

[exmaxima1]

I only said it was worth a look. I never said that it was collector quality.

I was referring to the wording in the original CL ad. The seller posted it as Collector Quality.

I think he may have actually hurt the collectibility by painting it.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Killing time on my last day at work before my retirement. This might be the
CL deal of the day if one jaw wasn't missing in action.
Parker 976 $100.00 http://syracuse.craigslist.org/pts/4825377311.html

 

[drivesitfar]

Craptain: stick around because your wisdom, humor and posts are always welcome. if i remember correctly you have a pretty stout metal cabinet with a nice Wilton residing on top of it. or did you change that?

Getridofone: congratulations on your retirement, but i'm worried i'll never find an 8 inch vise to buy now. the closest i came to buying a couple this last year you bought one and almost bought the other one. now that you really have some time are you going to spiff up the finds and stop looking for vises? or start playing with your cars? or buy them all and have your own museum like BC is working on?

ALL: I enjoyed 2014 on this forum and learned a lot. I hope 2015 is even better for all of us. I need to get to Organizing so getting an early start on the year and wishing you all a Happy New Year.

 

[KMScott]

Killing time on my last day at work before my retirement. This might be the
CL deal of the day if one jaw wasn't missing in action.
Parker 976 $100.00 http://syracuse.craigslist.org/pts/4825377311.html

I wish I was close, I could fix that guy pretty easy. Congratulations on your retirement Kenny. Happy New Vise Year everyone.

 

[Outlawmws]

Killing time on my last day at work before my retirement. This might be the
CL deal of the day if one jaw wasn't missing in action.
Parker 976 $100.00 http://syracuse.craigslist.org/pts/4825377311.html

That would be definitely worth asking if they still have the jaw insert around.

Congrats on retirement!

 

[GETRIDAONE]

"get to Organizing" I am going to "GETRIDATHREE"
cars so I can bring home three cast iron leg work benches I have been storing at work. A couple of benches will allow me to get some vises off the floor and wherever else they are sitting.
It feels funning packing up all your stuff after 19 years but I am looking forward to not setting that alarm clock.

 

[joe.striper]

http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/4824844573.html

Why I love living here. This was posted 24 hours ago. Looks like a Parker 974, but the nose is wrong on the dynamic jaw. regardless $40!!! it's about 2 hours from me or I'd be all over that....

Ive got a call into a guy who screwed up his CL ad and I know that no one has called him...We shall see. man do I love hunting these vises down.

 

[Craptain]

Craptain: stick around because your wisdom, humor and posts are always welcome. if i remember correctly you have a pretty stout metal cabinet with a nice Wilton residing on top of it. or did you change that?

I still have it and that is NOT on my for sale list. I also have the 1750 patiently waiting in line for refurbishment.

It looks as if I will be home for a few weeks so maybe, just maybe I will be more active both in my shop and here on GJ Forum.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Thanks for all the congratulations
This is a great group to be associated with and I always look forward to reading the posts because you never know what will turn up next.
Happy New Year to all

 

[Fretters]

One lesson I'm hearing is that maybe the best way to re-sell a vise is to just leave it alone and take lots of good pics to give the best web view of what is offered. Or, at minimum just give it a good wire brushing to remove dirt and grime so any real imperfections (or lack thereof) can be seen honestly.

This is one of those subjective topics. It wholly depends on what market someone is aiming at, how good their abilities are etc. Some buyers want an untouched piece which they can work with as they will, others want an itme which requires no work on their part and which can be used straight away. Then you have the inbetweens. The people who don't mind, for example, painting something to meet their criteria, but who have no skill or tools for repairing, if necessary.

The safest option is always to leave untouched, or at most to just wipe down with solvent to remove crud. Even something like wirewheeling a piece is a no-no. Unless using a soft wire, that can be unnecessarily harsh, plus it can also remove that patina of age which some try their best to retain, within reason.

Personally, I tend to avoid freshly done stuff like the plague, even if any painting and cleaning appears to have been done decently. You never know what a lathering of fresh paint may be hiding, and seeing shiny metalwork always makes me wonder how aggressively something was tarted up. I'd opt for the grubby but honest looking piece every time, personally. The only time I've deviated from that rule within memory was for the Soderfors, and that was simply due to it being an unusual and not too common vice which I was willing to take a risk on.

Crappily applied paint which equipment tends to accumulate over time is a different thing. Machinery and workshop kit do get freshened up periodically, so non original paint jobs aren't unexpected on old machinery. It's more the freshly applied lather which tends to raise red flags. It makes it hard to gauge condition, so it comes down to whether you're willing to take that chance or not with regards to possible hidden damage. Plus, it's causing extra work when you have to fart about remove that shonky paint job.

 

[Fretters]

Looks like a Parker 974, but the nose is wrong on the dynamic jaw. regardless $40!!! it's about 2 hours from me or I'd be all over that.....

That appears to have copper insert covers too.

 

[oldldh]

Getrid---

Congratulations on achieving retirement...

It is an achievement, believe me...I've been "unworking" for almost four years...

Now I exist in the "not enough time or money" kingdom...

For your last day---

"Ya Dun Gud, Bubba"...

May all of you and yours have the Happiest of New Years!!!
"

 

[Fretters]

Fretters, I painted the vise with Rust-Oleum Hammered Brown and I added a couple pictures of the two swivel bases being made, i had a old rusty 3/4 plate that worked perfect. I made for these two swivel bases for these two 2" Parkers one was a #0 and the other a #20.

Cheers for those photo's. Very nice work.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

My Parker 805 that's made a few appearances on here already... It had a replacement (I believe to be factory) dynamic jaw on it that stuck up about 1/8" higher than the static jaw. They didn't square up very well, either. This is after many, many hours of grinding, filing, sanding...



Dynamic jaw


Static jaw


Let me tell you, hand checkering with a triangle file ***** rear! My fingers are killing me... There's still about a .010"-.020" gap on the right side when closed, but I can live with that.

 

[Fretters]

Let me tell you, hand checkering with a triangle file ***** rear! My fingers are killing me...

It makes a man of you though, and those fingers will be tougher than steel soon, doing work like that. Nicely done.

 

[cretedog]

Killing time on my last day at work before my retirement.

Getridaone-

Congrats and best wishes! Hope I, too, make it to that point someday.

 

[rmalkow2]

This is one of those subjective topics. It wholly depends on what market someone is aiming at, how good their abilities are etc. Some buyers want an untouched piece which they can work with as they will, others want an itme which requires no work on their part and which can be used straight away. Then you have the inbetweens. The people who don't mind, for example, painting something to meet their criteria, but who have no skill or tools for repairing, if necessary.

The safest option is always to leave untouched, or at most to just wipe down with solvent to remove crud. Even something like wirewheeling a piece is a no-no. Unless using a soft wire, that can be unnecessarily harsh, plus it can also remove that patina of age which some try their best to retain, within reason.

Personally, I tend to avoid freshly done stuff like the plague, even if any painting and cleaning appears to have been done decently. You never know what a lathering of fresh paint may be hiding, and seeing shiny metalwork always makes me wonder how aggressively something was tarted up. I'd opt for the grubby but honest looking piece every time, personally. The only time I've deviated from that rule within memory was for the Soderfors, and that was simply due to it being an unusual and not too common vice which I was willing to take a risk on.

Crappily applied paint which equipment tends to accumulate over time is a different thing. Machinery and workshop kit do get freshened up periodically, so non original paint jobs aren't unexpected on old machinery. It's more the freshly applied lather which tends to raise red flags. It makes it hard to gauge condition, so it comes down to whether you're willing to take that chance or not with regards to possible hidden damage. Plus, it's causing extra work when you have to fart about remove that shonky paint job.

Wow and wow! And a really good summary Fretters. It is a very subjective thing but you have supplied a very good set of guidelines to follow depending on the purpose. My thought about the whole brushing comment was more in line with your description and maybe a better method of just wiping it down to get the grease and grime off. And I only conclude that as worthwhile because after reading a years worth of posts here one thing I see as a common issue is accurately seeing names and model numbers on the vises in question. So I come to the conclusion that taking good clean pics that people can identify from is number one on the prep list for selling. Be honest and show people what they will get.
But I really appreciate your thoughts here as well as all the others in this thread. Because of reading here in 2014 I acquired a new "vice" and a bunch of new "vises" and, am enjoying both. Thanks for a great year of knowledge and hope your 2015 is a great one for all!!!!!

 

[McBrownie]

My Parker 805 that's made a few appearances on here already... It had a replacement (I believe to be factory) dynamic jaw on it that stuck up about 1/8" higher than the static jaw. They didn't square up very well, either. This is after many, many hours of grinding, filing, sanding...

Let me tell you, hand checkering with a triangle file ***** rear!

Great job on the checkering! So, are you saying that you are not interested in re-checkering my 4" and 3" Parker jaws?