Help finding short caused by installing baseboards

[mopar72man]

I started installing baseboards in one room yesterday, luckily, I didn't get too far....

Since the install I managed to trip a breaker in the garage which runs to that room, as well as a GFI outlet in the kitchen. If I throw it, it kicks it right back to me, dead shorted somewhere.


I took my multimeter and tried to find a nail that had continuity with either the hot or neutral of one of the outlets in the room, with no luck. Perhaps there is an unaccounted for nail that got kittywampus and made the short.

I'm not the most experienced with AC electrical and could use some insight to finding where the problem is without tearing up the entire room.

Thank you

 

[jdieter]

Disconnect this circuit at the panel, hot, neutral and ground, and pull anything plugged in. Start pulling receptacles to break the daisy chain till you find the problem. if possible try to start pulling receptacles in the middle of the daisy chain. be sure to check for both hot - neutral & hot - ground. If that gets you to the fault, when you pull the baseboard, look for a nail with arcing. This can also be done with a light in series with the hot wire and the breaker, it will light dimly and may provide enough voltage drop to limit the current to the point that the breaker won't trip. But you'll then be working hot and you may have some arcing at the fault location that could start a fire. if you don't want to pull receptacles you could pull the baseboard attempting to clear the fault.

 

[mopar72man]

So I attempted some pretty basic diagnosing. So far I can only find four receptacles that are powered by this circuit. 1, 2, 3, and 4. 4 is the GFI receptacle.



I started at receptacle #1 and found continuity between the neutral and ground. When I disconnect one of the neutrals, I lose continuity, so the circuit after that point is not touching ground. So then I concentrated between #1 and #2 and determined that if I disconnect the neutral running between the two, I did not have a short to ground.

• Will a short between neutral and ground trip a GFI breaker?

With the assumption that is the problem I continued to receptacle #2. Same issue and also concluded that the neutral wire running from #2 to #3 is also not shorted. And this is where I'm stuck.

I am not sure where the circuit continues on to, I know it eventually gets to the kitchen GFI circuit, but the neutral coming in to #3 does not have continuity with the kitchen receptacle like I expected.

Help

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Sounds like you're shorted grnd-neutral in the wall between the #1 and #2 recepts. That will trip a GFCI.

Tommy

 

[justsam]

Are all three leads removed from the panel as suggested?
If not you will see neutral to ground short.

 

[RickP]

If you've already narrowed it down to the wire between two receptacles you could try finding the nail that punctured the romex by using a 9v battery and a voltmeter. Just make sure to disconnect all the wires from those two receptacles before you start. Once you find the nail with continuity to the battery, you can just rip out the drywall in that section of the wall to fix the wire. You might even be able to keep the drywall cuts behind the baseboard and save yourself a little work patching the drywall.

 

[mopar72man]

Are all three leads removed from the panel as suggested?
If not you will see neutral to ground short.

Not yet, getting to that.

 

[Aceman]

Sometimes it's simpler to call an electrician, most of these kinds of problems I can usually find in less than an hour or two. Repairing/replacing the damage, is a different story though.

 

[the gypsy]

I am no electrician, but if you only installed base boards in one room. remove the base boards along the wall where the receptacles are and look for evidence of arcing. Then proceed from there.

 

[the gypsy]

Can you look up to the ceiling from under that room and try to find the wire that feeds that room or feeds the kitchen counter. Look for a wire that goes from the underside of the room to inside the room or kitchen. My reasoning is that if you were doing base boards you must have nailed the wire low in the wall were the wire comes from downstairs. Or if the home is very old and was rewired, there may be a possability the the lazy electrician may have cheated and put the wiring low down behind the old 1/4 round.

Not the only illegal wiring I have seen. I have also seen (licensed) electrician run wire down a door Jam not to make holes in walls between floors. The electrician was licensed but there was no record of the work done so he was not afraid he might loose his license.

 

[CTyankee]

I'd probably would pull the base, cut the sheetrock out behind it, fix the short and replace the sheetrock.

I won't pass blame for what occurred, but I've seen electricians run wires at heights I find unacceptable...to code or not. Unless it's under a low window, IMO there is no reason for wires to be run anywhere within the first 8 inches of the floor. On one job with 2x4 walls we made them move them.

Why push your luck and place wires in the direct "line of fire" so to speak. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[C96]

Maybe you should be using shorter nails

 

[The Cobbler]

...IMO there is no reason for wires to be run anywhere within the first 8 inches of the floor. ...
Why push your luck and place wires in the direct "line of fire" so to speak. It doesn't make sense to me.

except where the feed wires come up thru from the floor from below ?

 

[kaffine]

Is there a basement or crawl space under the floor you are working on or is it slab on grade construction?

I would look where the outlets are did you put any nails in the base under an outlet? I can see where they might have run the cable down the stud to the basement or crawl space and a nail going through it there depending on the length of nail used.

If the wires neutral and ground are still connected in the panel then seeing a short between them is normal. A short between the neutral and ground wont trip a breaker but can trip GFCI.

 

[southalabama]

When you find it. Put a nail guard on it.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

In the back of my mind, it seems I remember something an old guy told me about taking a 12V light, wiring it to the circuit, 120V removed of course and taking a compass and going along the wall. Where the short is the compass will start pointing to it. I've never tried it, but it sounds like it might work. There may have been something else he did, I'm not sure.

 

[CTyankee]

except where the feed wires come up thru from the floor from below ?

Should have said wires running horizontal. Thanks.