coldh2o
Well-known member
How do you get excavated material from the cut area to the fill area without driving heavy equipment over the septic system?
Excavating/grading question
- Thread starter jpcjguy
- Start date
Bighead38
Well-known member
I do a lot of this type of work. You are better off hiring a pro with the proper equipment. A job this size isn't for a regular joe with no operating experience. Its hard to tell from the pics but I would definitely be bringing in a good size bulldozer and possibly an excavator. I good operator on a good sized bulldozer can move a shocking amount of dirt in a short time. It will also get graded properly and nicely with a good dozer operator. As previously said if there is good topsoil strip it to the side and replace on top after. Once it's graded you could bring in a skid steer with a rock hound to get rid of all the rocks before planting grass.
bczygan - thanks for the thoughtful post. It is appreciated and you brought up some great points. I think everyone is focused on a water flow issue, because I am putting in the pipe. There is no water flow currently. The pipe is there a an extreme safety.
Here is a pic from the worst rain we have had in the last year. Downpour for a few hours. You can see where some water is pooling around the trees (previous owner ringed the trees so much with his zero turn mower he made deep ruts). I walked the swell where the pipe would be to the neighbors and it was just wet - no standing water or spongy - but it would be the natural overflow if we had rain for 40 straight days - hence the pipe.
I have raised the tree canopy and thinned out some branches to let more light in to get a nice lawn in the compacted dirt area where the water is standing. This should help alleviate any water issues.
Regarding your other points - about the rolling terrain - duly noted. I am still in the early stages and always looking for suggestions. My thought was to make the yard more play friendly and easier access from the patio. Keep the horseshoe pits on the higher level and I am thinking the playset will eventually get replaced with a small patio and fire pit under the trees. A tiered setup.
My garage/shop is a proposed 34 wide by 30 deep - maybe 30 x 30 -depending on funds left. I plan on same pitch as house - 9/12 (with attic truss) and high enough for a lift. I have 2 jeep cjs that I off road with and work on. What I envision is in later years I might concrete/pave a nice sized pad in front of the garage for a basket ball area for the kids. Unfortunately there is no way to add on to the existing garage. I would have to excavate a lot more earth and get rid of a bunch of trees - as the garage side of the house is already cut into the ground:
jpcjguy, looks like an ambitious project, I agree the Kubota will take a lot longer to do it then the guy thinks. I wouldn't be afraid of renting a large back hoe as suggested and have at it. Back hoe for digging, bucket or dump trailer for moving the spoils. As others have suggested set aside the top soil if you get into sub soils with your upper excavation.
If you have sub soils in your upper excavation then you should remove the top soil from the lower area and add the upper area sub soil to the lower area subsoil. This will help keep subsidence down in the future.
When you go to put your rock down for the driveway be sure and use fabric between the dirt and rock this will cut down on the amount of rock needed in the future.
I think I wouldn't put the pipe in if it isn't necessary as it will be a place for the critters to inhabit or the kids to crawl into.
A very nice lookin place you have congrats and good fortune with your build!
Why Worry
If you have sub soils in your upper excavation then you should remove the top soil from the lower area and add the upper area sub soil to the lower area subsoil. This will help keep subsidence down in the future.
When you go to put your rock down for the driveway be sure and use fabric between the dirt and rock this will cut down on the amount of rock needed in the future.
I think I wouldn't put the pipe in if it isn't necessary as it will be a place for the critters to inhabit or the kids to crawl into.
A very nice lookin place you have congrats and good fortune with your build!
Why Worry
36truck
Well-known member
It's hard to tell for sure from the pics but to me it doesn't look like you need to put in a pipe for drainage. Just taper & level things out when you fill. Also I'm surprised only one person said anything about a dozer. It's the best way to strip the topsoil & level the dirt afterwards. A D5 and a good operator will make short work of it. Have a 3 yard loader to carry the dirt from point A to point B. Get someone with a laser transit to see how much needs to be cut & how much fill. Should be able to do it in a day.
bczygan
Well-known member
Another question.
Why not put the new shop even with the existing house?
That would shorten the driveway considerably and turn all the space behind the shop into private back yard area. And there is still adequate room between the shop and house to access that back yard space. Might even put a garage door on the back to create a pass through garage.
What you are proposing right now, has a driveway almost long enough for a runway.
Why not put the new shop even with the existing house?
That would shorten the driveway considerably and turn all the space behind the shop into private back yard area. And there is still adequate room between the shop and house to access that back yard space. Might even put a garage door on the back to create a pass through garage.
What you are proposing right now, has a driveway almost long enough for a runway.
bczygan
Well-known member
One more idea.
When you fill enough to get a reasonable driveway along that property line, you will block the flow of any potential water unless you install a culvert under it.
So I would take a problem and make it a feature.
In the low point where water could collect, I would create a dry pond, or even a wet pond. Make it a focal point of the front yard. You could even curve the drive around one side of it to create visual interest and reflect the curve of the existing drive. I would make the entrance from the road a little ways from the property line, not right at the line. This would give space to plant trees and shrubs to block views of the garage from the road. Likewise, I would plant a screen along the property line.
The curved drive would also require less fill since it would follow a higher contour. And move the shop away from the property line a bit too. This will allow future additions on the side.
And when you excavate the low point to make a true depression for a pond, the spoils can be used for fill for the drive right adjacent to that. You might not even need to get material from the play area. What you are creating is a retention pond, dressed up as a dry or wet pond "Landscape feature".
When you fill enough to get a reasonable driveway along that property line, you will block the flow of any potential water unless you install a culvert under it.
So I would take a problem and make it a feature.
In the low point where water could collect, I would create a dry pond, or even a wet pond. Make it a focal point of the front yard. You could even curve the drive around one side of it to create visual interest and reflect the curve of the existing drive. I would make the entrance from the road a little ways from the property line, not right at the line. This would give space to plant trees and shrubs to block views of the garage from the road. Likewise, I would plant a screen along the property line.
The curved drive would also require less fill since it would follow a higher contour. And move the shop away from the property line a bit too. This will allow future additions on the side.
And when you excavate the low point to make a true depression for a pond, the spoils can be used for fill for the drive right adjacent to that. You might not even need to get material from the play area. What you are creating is a retention pond, dressed up as a dry or wet pond "Landscape feature".
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Excellent point. I have thought about that, as that driveway length is brutal. Being in the back corner "tucks" it way more. I plan on parking my 18ft. 10K trailer on the "right" side of the garage so it is out of sight of the house and will be able to have stuff behind the garage and out of sight from the house/patio/yard. Also with the garage in the back corner, you would be able to see the main garage door and man door from inside the house. (if it is open, activity, etc.)
I thought of down the road paving or concreting a larger area in front of the garage for a basketball area would be nice for the kids when they get older...and it could be seen from the back windows of the house.
I like the way you think! Always churning and running through possibilities!
I did this with a kitchen remodel in a previous house. I thought about it for 5 years before finally pulling the trigger. I shared my layout idea with the kitchen architect (who was nice but had that "I am the expert" aura) and he stated he would give me some ideas that he was sure would be awesome. He came back and said he can't improve on what I came up with.
Not that I was surprised - I had been living in the house for 5+ years and thinking about constantly.
Back to the yard - yes a culvert (pipe) would be under the driveway to the back to allow for the natural waterway.
I have thought about extending the two parking spots out front into a circular driveway:
My only concern about messing with any area around the trees in front of the house, is the root system. I can only bring in 1-2" of topsoil without harming the trees. Any kind of pond or circular driveway would more than like harm them and we want to keep them....
bczygan
Well-known member
bczygan - I like the design! I will be sharing it with my wife. Only reservation with it is the size of the garage - 12ft ceilings for a lift and attic trusses will seem like another full size house between mine and the neighbor. Being in the back corner keeps it more of a "secondary building". (but it would be on higher ground back there and look larger in height - sheesh, always something)
machsnell
Well-known member
you will need site plan. They are expensive. Minor is 5 to 7k and full which is what you might need is like 10k.
I am in VA and in our county you can only disturb 2500 sf and change grade 18" before you need a permit. That means just your driveway in back would need to be done in two parts maybe three because you cut out tsoil and fill with stone and cut material goes? outside drive? part of B section to fill?
Anyway, you have too many neighbors to do under the radar unless all your neighbors are GOOD friends.
If you get plan you should get it for your shop you want to build and drive and dirt and all at once.
One in our county VA you can only build a 1000 sf building on a walk through permit. your 30x40 would need permit and site plan because they add 10 feet to each side and since you need to access it you would disturb ten foot lane to get to it. This puts you way over.
So if you get permit for the dirt move then you have to do it all over again for the drive and the garage.
If you have to bite a bullet do it once.
What is your area of cut? 100 by 60? if so at average 2 foot cut thats 450 cyards of dirt. 45 dump truck loads. Day or two with the right equimpment. Not a tractor or a backhoe. forever with tractor and a week with backhoe including move to new site. probably small truck best when ground is dry.
I would get site plan even if only to site the building footprint this would get site plan portion done and then it is just your architectural stuff needed.
I would cut high area fill low area cut in drive re grade and stone driveway and rough area for pad for garage and stone it. finish grade it all and see the piss out of it.
All of that could be done in a few days with an excavator, track bobcat and truck and roller (for stone at least). If you can truck cut to fill area. Probably need it dry and only if you have good ground that wont rut up with traffic.
Track bobcat should be 750 a day (10 hour)
Excavator from 1000 to 1400 a day maybe plus move
roller one time shot for 1000
dump truck for 750 a day.
so for 8 or 9 k you should be able to cut and fill a and b cut in driveway cut in "flat" area for parking and garage area and install stone and compact. Plus 2 k for stone and whatever for a cmp (pipe) or the plastic under drive ($300) and some seeding.
Total 12k for dirt and stone and pipe then you seed and straw it.
Plus you will have silt fence for 600 to 800 feet at a couple bucks a foot.
plus your site plan.
Let me know if area is correct.
I am in VA and in our county you can only disturb 2500 sf and change grade 18" before you need a permit. That means just your driveway in back would need to be done in two parts maybe three because you cut out tsoil and fill with stone and cut material goes? outside drive? part of B section to fill?
Anyway, you have too many neighbors to do under the radar unless all your neighbors are GOOD friends.
If you get plan you should get it for your shop you want to build and drive and dirt and all at once.
One in our county VA you can only build a 1000 sf building on a walk through permit. your 30x40 would need permit and site plan because they add 10 feet to each side and since you need to access it you would disturb ten foot lane to get to it. This puts you way over.
So if you get permit for the dirt move then you have to do it all over again for the drive and the garage.
If you have to bite a bullet do it once.
What is your area of cut? 100 by 60? if so at average 2 foot cut thats 450 cyards of dirt. 45 dump truck loads. Day or two with the right equimpment. Not a tractor or a backhoe. forever with tractor and a week with backhoe including move to new site. probably small truck best when ground is dry.
I would get site plan even if only to site the building footprint this would get site plan portion done and then it is just your architectural stuff needed.
I would cut high area fill low area cut in drive re grade and stone driveway and rough area for pad for garage and stone it. finish grade it all and see the piss out of it.
All of that could be done in a few days with an excavator, track bobcat and truck and roller (for stone at least). If you can truck cut to fill area. Probably need it dry and only if you have good ground that wont rut up with traffic.
Track bobcat should be 750 a day (10 hour)
Excavator from 1000 to 1400 a day maybe plus move
roller one time shot for 1000
dump truck for 750 a day.
so for 8 or 9 k you should be able to cut and fill a and b cut in driveway cut in "flat" area for parking and garage area and install stone and compact. Plus 2 k for stone and whatever for a cmp (pipe) or the plastic under drive ($300) and some seeding.
Total 12k for dirt and stone and pipe then you seed and straw it.
Plus you will have silt fence for 600 to 800 feet at a couple bucks a foot.
plus your site plan.
Let me know if area is correct.
machsnell
Well-known member
i only included a pipe under drive not the 80 foot you were talking about. i couldnt reallly understand that one. It seemed like you could get positive grade on the surface and not need to pipe it but hard to tell.
Bondo
Well-known member
Ayuh,.... My thought as well,....
Put a culvert at the road, where the driveway starts, 'n control the water, at the surface out to it with a swale along side the driveway,...
machsnell - excellent post! Thank you! Clear concise with realistic numbers. I was getting quotes of just moving the dirt from a to be without the pipe (or me providing it) in the 20-25k range - no driveway!
The 80 ft pipe was for leveling the entire side yard. so the pipe would go from the tree area to the neighbors property line. Not just a pipe under the driveway area.
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I like the way you think! Always churning and running through possibilities!
I did this with a kitchen remodel in a previous house. I thought about it for 5 years before finally pulling the trigger. I shared my layout idea with the kitchen architect (who was nice but had that "I am the expert" aura) and he stated he would give me some ideas that he was sure would be awesome. He came back and said he can't improve on what I came up with.
Not that I was surprised - I had been living in the house for 5+ years and thinking about constantly.
Back to the yard - yes a culvert (pipe) would be under the driveway to the back to allow for the natural waterway.
I have thought about extending the two parking spots out front into a circular driveway:
My only concern about messing with any area around the trees in front of the house, is the root system. I can only bring in 1-2" of topsoil without harming the trees. Any kind of pond or circular driveway would more than like harm them and we want to keep them....
The location of the designated reserve area for your septic system is...???
Actually there would be a culvert right at the road also. There is a road run-off dip 2 feet off the road. In the below pic there would be on on the other side of the leland cypress along the road:
The dotted red lines would be the 80 ft pipe across the side yard from the trees to the neighbors yard. I could theoretically just do a pipe under the driveway. but my thinking is getting a nice even gentle slope from the back of the property to the road (for the side yard only - can't affect the tree area) since the tree area is the low spot I need the pipe to siphon off any water from the tree area to the low spot at the neighbors yard. The pipe across the whole length would be if I grade the side area to match the thin yellow line (fill in the entire "dip" across the side yard)
bczygan
Well-known member
A couple of things to make it seem a subsidiary structure to the main structure, and not a house in it's own right.
Step it back slightly from the main house.
Break up the mass of the building and differentiate it from the residence by pushing one bay slightly back and lowering it's roof to break the planes of the wall and roof. Use a water table to cut the apparent height.
Set it slightly down slope from the house.
The curved drive and pond used as a focal point draw attention away from it.
BTW, If you extend a drive from the existing 2 parking spaces to this new garage, and it's driveway, you can get a complete circle in and out. Or you can eliminate the separate drive for the garage. It could even be rotated 90 degrees so the door faced the house.
And the reason I come up with lots of alternatives.....that is the design process you go through as an Architectural Designer. You identify all the existing conditions, and add to that all the needs and desires of the client. Then you take the requirements of the city or other jurisdiction and throw them in the mix. BTW, what are your setbacks here? And you temper all this with budget considerations, local Architectural styles and then work through all the possibilities, measuring and comparing until you get a balanced solution.
It's a similar process for designing anything.
Bill
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Thanks Bill. I have thought about extending off the existing parking spots but the darn well is where the circle would be. Here is a pic:
The yellow is the well. The red outlines where the circle would be. The well is either in the driveway or darn close ( would need a steel post to protect it from drivers) and the blue is where I could branch off to garage sites.
Here is an older pic I made a few months ago with proposed driveway routes (ignore the yellow circles - they were about the septic):
The only thing I did not like about the red lines is that it cuts the side yard in half and that would be an awsome "playing field" for the kids. (hence the pipe and getting rid of the swell and doing some leveling)
And navigating my lifted excursion pulling my lifted CJ7 on my 18ft trailer through the turns would not be fun. And where the parking spots are - there is a tree right on that corner. I can barely squeeze around it with the excursion. If there is a car parked in the spot closer to the house, forget it, the excursion has to 5 point it around.
Not trying to dismiss any ideas! Just giving my viewpoints - I have had a lot more time to ponder this - but keeping my mind open!
Bondo
Well-known member
Actually there would be a culvert right at the road also. There is a road run-off dip 2 feet off the road. In the below pic there would be on on the other side of the leland cypress along the road:
The dotted red lines would be the 80 ft pipe across the side yard from the trees to the neighbors yard. I could theoretically just do a pipe under the driveway. but my thinking is getting a nice even gentle slope from the back of the property to the road (for the side yard only - can't affect the tree area) since the tree area is the low spot I need the pipe to siphon off any water from the tree area to the low spot at the neighbors yard. The pipe across the whole length would be if I grade the side area to match the thin yellow line (fill in the entire "dip" across the side yard)
Ayuh,.... You can still forget about the 80' of pipe, just grade the entire hill, string line straight downhill to the point of the raodside culvert,....
All of any surface water would pitch to the culvert, or at worst flow over the new driveway,...
That's the purpose of Boxin' in the driveway,...
Insteada built Up, it's built In, so water can flow wherever it's always flowed,...
You've got the drop to work with,...
The pipe will funnel the water,... that could cause erosion on the neighbor,..
A gradual slope will disperse the water, so no flows, no erosion,...
Buy the 20' culvert for the road entrance,...
Save the money on the 80'er, 'n just regrade the surface,...
OP . . . re-think everything using Bczygan idea as starting point. He's got great ideas of using slope as advantage to add interest to property.
However, OP you've been delusional on two things:
a) NEVER, ever, never going to be able to put 80 ft pipe dumping water to neighbor's property - - - - NOT going to be allowed.
b) Also delusional talk to have heavy equipment driving over septic field. Do NOT do it, as you're just asking for trouble. Avoid driving over at all costs.
Consider also NOT having hard driveway (ie asphalt) that entire length of property to the garage. If you kept new garage reasonable distance from road, you could use pavers which would still allow water to permeate the soil and are considered "temporary" for tax purposes (thus not taxable). That giant asphalt driveway you were thinking will cost you big time in Real Estate taxes every year to eternity.
However, OP you've been delusional on two things:
a) NEVER, ever, never going to be able to put 80 ft pipe dumping water to neighbor's property - - - - NOT going to be allowed.
b) Also delusional talk to have heavy equipment driving over septic field. Do NOT do it, as you're just asking for trouble. Avoid driving over at all costs.
Consider also NOT having hard driveway (ie asphalt) that entire length of property to the garage. If you kept new garage reasonable distance from road, you could use pavers which would still allow water to permeate the soil and are considered "temporary" for tax purposes (thus not taxable). That giant asphalt driveway you were thinking will cost you big time in Real Estate taxes every year to eternity.
CNGsaves - there is no "dumping" currently. Even in the hardest rains the swell has never had standing water. My concept keeps any possible water having the ability to go where it naturally goes now. The pipe replaces the swell and routes the water where it would be now.
Tried to mock up some more. sorry for the "busy"ness. The current slope of the side yard is the yellow slope line. The pink arrows show slope to the swell in the yard and the ditch by the street. Currently, if there was any moving water from the back yard, it would go down the slope to the blue line and follow the blue dots to the red line in the neighbors property. Any moving water from the orange circle (area under/around the trees) would also just follow the blue line. If I "filled" in the swell to have a straight slope from the back yard to the street, water would flow to the street, dump into the ditch and then run back to the neighbors yard, past the blue dots, past the tree and under his driveway. The point of the pipe would be if I had a large amount of water in the orange circle area, it would not be trapped there because I built up the swell for a level front the back "plane". The water would go through the pipe ( blue line) and join the red line flow pattern - just as it goes today. Remember - even in the heaviest of rains, I have never seen moving water in the blue line area. The standing water you see in the pics around the trees gets absorbed within an hour or two after the rain stops. And that area is compacted dirt that is like concrete. I plan on aerating and seeding it better so it would absorb water better.
Bondo - yes the idea is string line straight from the back yard to the trees(street) and most of any water would run that way. But look at this pic. I did the slope in the pink arrows:
By the red wagon, you see the ground starts sloping toward the trees. The orange circle area is the lowest spot on the property. If I string line straight to match the thin yellow line, any water in orange is effectively trapped. That is the reason for the pipe all the way across. I could just build up the swell under the driveway and have a small pipe there. But the original idea is to take the 400 cu. yards of dirt from the back yard and fill the whole swell to "string line" straight and have the pipe "replace" the swell for any potential overflow from the orange area. I have not altered the water flow in anyway. If we had 2 feet of water dumped today, it would rush from the orange area, down the swell, and into the swell in the neighbors yard, under his driveway and away it goes.
Thanks again everyone for taking the time to respond and engage. It is very much appreciated and you all are giving me lots of perspectives and things to think about!
Bondo
Well-known member
Bondo - yes the idea is string line straight from the back yard to the trees(street) and most of any water would run that way. But look at this pic. I did the slope in the pink arrows:
By the red wagon, you see the ground starts sloping toward the trees. The orange circle area is the lowest spot on the property. If I string line straight to match the thin yellow line, any water in orange is effectively trapped. That is the reason for the pipe all the way across. I could just build up the swell under the driveway and have a small pipe there. But the original idea is to take the 400 cu. yards of dirt from the back yard and fill the whole swell to "string line" straight and have the pipe "replace" the swell for any potential overflow from the orange area. I have not altered the water flow in anyway. If we had 2 feet of water dumped today, it would rush from the orange area, down the swell, and into the swell in the neighbors yard, under his driveway and away it goes.
Thanks again everyone for taking the time to respond and engage. It is very much appreciated and you all are giving me lots of perspectives and things to think about!
Ayuh,... That's also how I see it,... but the 80' pipe is unnecessary,...
If the tiny hump where the little shrubs are, out by the road, is cut down, 'n pushed into the swale(not a swell),....
The water will most likely perk into the ground, 'n not "Run" anywhere,...
But,... in a Torrential downpour, it could flow to the road, 'n away,....
That way, the guy next door can only bytch at the town, for the road drainage, 'n will have No recourse against You, for divertin' any water,...
You'd end up with a tiny bit of swale through, from the low spot at the trees to the right, over to the left toward the new drive, exitin' the lot to the right of the new drive,...
Ya don't need to waste the money on 80' of pipe,...
The distance deceives perspective - those little shrubs are 12-14 tall leland cypress trees. The tiny hump is about about 20-30 feet across. I agree about the perk - as I have never seen running water.
The existing swell is about 40' from the road at the neighbors property.
If I string lined straight the blue box area (angled from back of property to the road), then the tree area would all funnel to the mouth of the pipe.
Platonic Solid
Well-known member
Life would be so much easier if you put the garage North of the house.
machsnell
Well-known member
I am with bondo on this. It would be nice to find a way around the pipe issue. It seems to me like what bondo said move the SWALE towards the leylands/roadway ditchline then you could not have to worry about the pipe and gain more flat area in that you wont have to channel the water to the pipe invert. That was a fairly large area away from the orange circle to the black line for pipe infall. all that could be graded flat as well if water can go towards the road.
What would help tremendously is to grab a laser and take some grade shots on the high and low areas. just the change in grade. Nothing crazy just critical areas.
you can do it with a cheap laser/reciever and a tape measure if you dont have grade rod or linker rod.
If you had that we could tell you in a heartbeat where to run your water easiest.
I think you have thought about it well enough but worthwhile to see if you might be missing a few simple flow routes.
Its hard to tell from photos what grades are there elevations would solve it.
What would help tremendously is to grab a laser and take some grade shots on the high and low areas. just the change in grade. Nothing crazy just critical areas.
you can do it with a cheap laser/reciever and a tape measure if you dont have grade rod or linker rod.
If you had that we could tell you in a heartbeat where to run your water easiest.
I think you have thought about it well enough but worthwhile to see if you might be missing a few simple flow routes.
Its hard to tell from photos what grades are there elevations would solve it.
I was wondering when someone would bring that up!
Thought of that also but it would be tight on space. Requires tree removal that we like and the property would be heavily weighted on one side and it would have to be too close to the street to get the depth. Then it would be the first thing you would see when turn into the driveway and take away from the house.
justin1795
Well-known member
I spent 5k on basic excavation. This included a bulldozer 2 loads of gravel. About 12 loads of fill. 5 loads of top soil. A lot of dirt was scraped off high spots. I paid another guy on a mini excavator another 1500 to finish the grading after the barn went up and 4 loads of recyled concreate was brought in for 800. My lesson was that everything was alot more work. Even more than the people quoted. They both were very good operators.
Hope you REALLY can think outside-the-box and consider other options. Thus far, appears you are NOT able to do that. Seem hard headed when experts like Bczygan tell you 80 ft solid steel pipe directly pointed at neighbor's property will NOT fly with any approval process. You'll be effectively creating funnel (ie the steel tube) whereas before a wide surface area absorbed the water. That funnel is directly pointed to the neighbor's property . . . just the PERCEPTION (ie the look and feel) of that 80 ft pipe will NEVER fly by the approval board!!
If however, you have significant political and monetary "pull" then you might "try" your 80 ft pipe idea (ie build it and hope for forgiveness later). However, if I was your neighbor I'd have it tore out after you built it with help of Fed's to overrule local board. Thus, you'd be paying for dirt moving at least TWICE, and maybe THREE times!
Now alternatively, if you dug pond down at edge of property (on your land) and had the 80 ft pipe dump into your own runoff pond, then it "might" fly . . . however, only if that pond didn't frequently overflow onto the neighbor's property. Same Catch 22 applies that you'll not be able to make changes that effectively create new concentrated water flows onto a neighbor's property.
All this guessing is just that a WAG. You'll need topographical surveys by a professional as other GJer's have indicated. Good luck.
If however, you have significant political and monetary "pull" then you might "try" your 80 ft pipe idea (ie build it and hope for forgiveness later). However, if I was your neighbor I'd have it tore out after you built it with help of Fed's to overrule local board. Thus, you'd be paying for dirt moving at least TWICE, and maybe THREE times!
Now alternatively, if you dug pond down at edge of property (on your land) and had the 80 ft pipe dump into your own runoff pond, then it "might" fly . . . however, only if that pond didn't frequently overflow onto the neighbor's property. Same Catch 22 applies that you'll not be able to make changes that effectively create new concentrated water flows onto a neighbor's property.
All this guessing is just that a WAG. You'll need topographical surveys by a professional as other GJer's have indicated. Good luck.
Hope you REALLY can think outside-the-box and consider other options. Thus far, appears you are NOT able to do that. Seem hard headed when experts like Bczygan tell you 80 ft solid steel pipe directly pointed at neighbor's property will NOT fly with any approval process. You'll be effectively creating funnel (ie the steel tube) whereas before a wide surface area absorbed the water. That funnel is directly pointed to the neighbor's property . . . just the PERCEPTION (ie the look and feel) of that 80 ft pipe will NEVER fly by the approval board!!
If however, you have significant political and monetary "pull" then you might "try" your 80 ft pipe idea (ie build it and hope for forgiveness later). However, if I was your neighbor I'd have it tore out after you built it with help of Fed's to overrule local board. Thus, you'd be paying for dirt moving at least TWICE, and maybe THREE times!
Now alternatively, if you dug pond down at edge of property (on your land) and had the 80 ft pipe dump into your own runoff pond, then it "might" fly . . . however, only if that pond didn't frequently overflow onto the neighbor's property. Same Catch 22 applies that you'll not be able to make changes that effectively create new concentrated water flows onto a neighbor's property.
All this guessing is just that a WAG. You'll need topographical surveys by a professional as other GJer's have indicated. Good luck.
Point well taken. My responses did appear that I have a closed mind. It was not intended to be combative - just friendly debate.
I did speak to the county Environmental Engineer this morning and while on the phone he pulled up the aerial plot of my property and I described what I wanted to do. He is also familiar with my neighborhood. He did not seem to indicate any red flags. He stated that the permit/review process of building my garage would generally spur any potential environmental impact. Because I am below 10,000 sq ft. of land disturbance, I don't need any permits directly related to the land. Since I would build a retaining wall over 36", I would need a permit for that and they would review any water issues then. He recommended that I find out exactly where my reserve area for my septic is to make sure that I don't mess up anything there.
I did email him a bunch of the pictures that I posted in this thread showing eye level viewpoints for him. I will report back when I hear back from him.
Thanks everyone!
machsnell
Well-known member
Man you are very lucky with 10k sf allowance. ours is 2500 sf.
With 10k you are golden, put up silt fence and hammer it.
Find your reserve area and lets go from there. You life just got much easier and cheaper.
the wall is an easy cheap permit you can pull yourself. Draw it on a plat to scale and say the height and just put "per county detail" on application and provide a print out of detail for ?timber i think you said? its that easy.
With 10k you are golden, put up silt fence and hammer it.
Find your reserve area and lets go from there. You life just got much easier and cheaper.
the wall is an easy cheap permit you can pull yourself. Draw it on a plat to scale and say the height and just put "per county detail" on application and provide a print out of detail for ?timber i think you said? its that easy.
machsnell
Well-known member
also since you arent changing water flow you wont have a problem with the pipe. There are clear and defined drainage swales that alll that water is going to neighbor no matter what you do.
I still think if there is a way to do it without the pipe you want to.
Grade shots (elevations) would help us help you.
I still think if there is a way to do it without the pipe you want to.
Grade shots (elevations) would help us help you.
Bondo
Well-known member
Ayuh,.... Those pictures certainly do hi-light the lay of the land,...
Looks like Plan A is the best option,....
A culvert under the drive right in the wet spot,....
Is the snow bank jambin' up the water off the driveway, 'n goin' down 'tween the trees,..??
Lowerin' that last bit of grass, just past the last culvert arrow up the swale, might help better drain the tree area above it,...
Looks like Plan A is the best option,....
A culvert under the drive right in the wet spot,....
Is the snow bank jambin' up the water off the driveway, 'n goin' down 'tween the trees,..??
Lowerin' that last bit of grass, just past the last culvert arrow up the swale, might help better drain the tree area above it,...