Plumbing Problem

[Aspen RT]

Ok, so it's not in my garage, but it could be in somebodys garage.

Hopefully somebody can give me an answer. My house is approx 10yrs old, copper plumbing and I'm now fixing the 4th leak. It's not a leak at the soldered joints, it a leak right square in the middle of the pipe! Like I said this is the 4th one, and so far I've been lucky that they havent been over the finished part of the basement. A couple of them started with some green corrosion(?) and a drip. Two, including the one I'm fixing today, show no signs of anything....Except a friggen drip!!

Here's a couple of pics..

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This is the first one that has been on the hot side. The stuff you see on the pipe is the sticky stuff off of the insulation. Although you can't see the drip in the pic, it's there.

Anybody got any ideas???????????

 

[Zeke]

Poor quality pipe has been reported coming from china. I know you don't want to hear that.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Probably electrolysis ... make sure the water service is grounded to the electrical panel ... and or some where in the system there are no dieletric unions where your connected to Iron Pipe ... search around there is a reason this is happening.

 

[sixty4]

Are you on a well system? If so I would get a water sample done. Does it say on the pipe type m or type L? Just had a similar problem at a house my sister owns, we repiped everything with cpvc. Some ding dong years ago before she bought it saved a few pennies and used type M tubing.

 

[Jackfre]

As noted it could be water chemistry or electrolysis...or both. It could also be a velocity issue leading to erosion, but that likely wouldn't show mid pipe. If you are seeing it systemically you are going to have to replace the pipe. I would suggest that you go to pex. It will not suffer the same fate. Does that pipe have a red or blue stripe the length of it. Red is M. Blue is L type copper. L is heavier. BTW, you say that it hasn't happened over the finished part of the basement. These type leaks start as a very small pin-hole and go from there. It may be leaking over the finished part and not showing yet. PEX!

 

[Jackfre]

Oh, and the Copper Development Assoc has a lot of info on their site

 

[Aspen RT]

Probably electrolysis ... make sure the water service is grounded to the electrical panel ... and or some where in the system there are no dieletric unions where your connected to Iron Pipe ... search around there is a reason this is happening.

We had thought about electrolysis before, I have looked but didn't see anything to cause it.

Are you on a well system? If so I would get a water sample done. Does it say on the pipe type m or type L? Just had a similar problem at a house my sister owns, we repiped everything with cpvc. Some ding dong years ago before she bought it saved a few pennies and used type M tubing.

Nope not on a well....But it does appear the pipe is M. Here is what I can read on it...
MCTP-W NSE-6 Type M

As noted it could be water chemistry or electrolysis...or both. It could also be a velocity issue leading to erosion, but that likely wouldn't show mid pipe. If you are seeing it systemically you are going to have to replace the pipe. I would suggest that you go to pex. It will not suffer the same fate. Does that pipe have a red or blue stripe the length of it. Red is M. Blue is L type copper. L is heavier. BTW, you say that it hasn't happened over the finished part of the basement. These type leaks start as a very small pin-hole and go from there. It may be leaking over the finished part and not showing yet. PEX!

Oh friggen boy! I'm afraid it may come to that!

 

[Aspen RT]

LOL.....by the way I just noticed I posted the same pic twice....what a D.A. LOL

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . is that picture from basement looking up?? If so, then is all your subfloor sheeted with OSB . . . thus not plywood??

For the bonding/grounding of copper water lines, it generally should be within 6 ft of entering the structure. Where is yours attached to copper water line??

 

[reader2580]

I have read that the water in some areas will eat through copper pipes. Have you called the water department to see if they have heard of this happening in your area with copper pipes?

 

[Aspen RT]

OP . . . is that picture from basement looking up?? If so, then is all your subfloor sheeted with OSB . . . thus not plywood??

For the bonding/grounding of copper water lines, it generally should be within 6 ft of entering the structure. Where is yours attached to copper water line??

Yep the sub floor is OSB, do they even use plywood for anything anymore? All the houses around here are all OSB.

As for the grounding, I don't know the main water line comes up out of the basement floor.

I have read that the water in some areas will eat through copper pipes. Have you called the water department to see if they have heard of this happening in your area with copper pipes?

I haven't asked, but they do a big water study every year here and nothing has been said. Of course they probably don't offer up that info....LOL

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ Right, so within first several feet of copper water line entering structure, there should be attachment to copper pipe of a ground wire. Does yours have it??

Or look around near your main electric panel, they might have skimped and put the grounding of copper water pipe over near panel or more likely not at all.

P.S. If your house is 10 yrs old and builder skimped on copper water pipe, I'd bet they skimped on windows, siding, housewrap, etc. like I discovered on my old house. Keep close eye for any water problems around windows as that OSB used everywhere will crumble and mold very quickly with a small leak. Paint and caulk every few years (window frames, molding, window sills, etc) or you could have costly repairs.

 

[2CWG]

We just had our whole house re-piped with PEX due to pinhole leaks in the original (~13yr old) copper pipe. The pipes all looked perfect on the outside, but on the inside it looked like a small cone of corrosion which matched up with the pinhole on the outside. Around this area, many contend that the issues are due to water chemistry:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/water-340682-leaks-copper.html

http://www.slableakfix.com/slab-leaks-and-pinhole-leaks-in-orange-county-ca/

 

[DC73]

Poor quality pipe has been reported coming from china. I know you don't want to hear that.

The problems with Chinese copper pipe are showing up in homes built roughly beginning around the 2004 time frame. Some say maybe as early as 2002 depending on the area of the country. Any home built during the housing boom from 2004 to 2007 and especially those built as part of a large housing development during that time should be suspect. Maybe you still have a homeowners warranty in place?

DC

 

[jbwbhs]

I had similar problems years ago with a municipal system that was a very early "Reverse Osmosis" treatment system. The water was extremely "soft" and leached solids from the copper, leading to pinholes from inside out. It consistently ate up water heaters every 3 yrs.

 

[Aspen RT]

I want to thank you guys for the help, tomorrow I'm going searching to see if I can find the ground wire.