Living in the NE I spend my days fighting with rusty nasty looking nuts and bolts. I always used craftsman RP wrenches and thought the flank drive or "grip" design was a marketing ploy. After actually seeing how well it actually works I switched all wrenches over. My question is will there be the same difference if i switch my craftsman sockets, to say SK, Wright or Snap On where they apply fore to sides of the nut rather than the points?
Sockets (not a quality but a function thread)
- Thread starter Jrems
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wornoutoldman
Well-known member
Fixed it for ya.
Askme42
Well-known member
I thought just about everyone had flank drive sockets now.
Kirbot
Well-known member
Pretty sure newer craftsman sockets are flank drive.
I don't know when they switched over though, so you'll have to be careful if you find used ones.
I don't know when they switched over though, so you'll have to be careful if you find used ones.
wild cowboy
Banned
I have Craftsman sockets from the first half of the 1990's that are flank drive style.
shockwave
Well-known member
There is a great thread on koken sockets that should work better for your needs
And snap on is always a great socket
Closest I can think of off the top of my head is Mac edge sockets but unsure of real world functionality and they are import too
And snap on is always a great socket
Closest I can think of off the top of my head is Mac edge sockets but unsure of real world functionality and they are import too
Also assuming you understand flank drive is the box-end design, not the serration-style open ends. It's not uncommon for people to refer to serrations as 'flank drive' when what they are referring to is the FD+ features and just omitting the "+" for brevity. They do make drive-profile sockets, but those are not flank-drive.
[edit: ie, not to be confused with snap-on flank drive TM sockets]
[edit: ie, not to be confused with snap-on flank drive TM sockets]
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dpaton
Well-known member
Mac has 'precision torque' sockets with flank drive and serrations. woodstockva did a review.
Verg
Well-known member
Jrems,
This thread by davidB will answer all your questions. Its a comparison of a ton of different 13mm sockets and tons of pictures.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73245
Like you i work on lots of very rusted fasteners. When i bought my first set of Flank drive+ wrenches the difference was very noticeable over my craftsmen wrenches. Switching to snap on sockets was much less noticeable.
This thread by davidB will answer all your questions. Its a comparison of a ton of different 13mm sockets and tons of pictures.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73245
Like you i work on lots of very rusted fasteners. When i bought my first set of Flank drive+ wrenches the difference was very noticeable over my craftsmen wrenches. Switching to snap on sockets was much less noticeable.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
All of my sockets are Craftsman, 6 point from the 70s-90s. I have a bag full of 12 point sockets. No problems since I got rid of the 12 point sockets.
I almost NEVER use the open end of my Craftsman RP combination wrenches for obvious reasons !
Are you suggesting Proto or SK are better sockets than Snap On? If you or the OP think that, then buy those sockets. My point is only: life is too short for cheap tools. (Should be the GJ Creed)How about brand new Proto or SK for under $60?
I believe Snap On make the best sockets. In this case, the $40 difference between what I regard as the best and a set of Proto is no savings in my mind if the Proto don't perform to the same level as Snap On. (not saying they don't). You think Harbor Freight are pretty good and only $20 for the set? I don't care. My time and frustration and success is worth way more than the $100 it takes to buy the world's best socket set.
As a lifelong shade tree mechanic, I've gotten myself into some real jams by using cheap tools. The tool that got me into Snap On was my Craftsman Allen Bit Socket. I was working on my daily driver 944S2 (years ago) and I stripped an allen screw trying to remove a pulley. I think I had cut the belt off or something stupid, such that there was no practical way for me to repair the car. Vehicle was flat-bedded to a indy shop. Total bill for that one screw was more than a toolbox full of Snap On tools. Once I had a set of good bit sockets, I never again encountered that problem. I think the OP is in the same boat I was in.
I don't care what brand you prefer. I don't want to start a brand war. Just pick the best and get that.
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Seriously? You constantly contradict yourself in this post, specifically about performance, make wild assumptions that the SO Allen socket bit wouldn't have stripped the screw, and claim to have paid, what, half the value of the car to have that one screw repaired?
MemphisR32
Well-known member
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- Oct 9, 2014
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Exact same story for me. The Craftsman Allen bit sockets damaged about 6 fasteners on my motorcycle and then broke on me so I got a Snappy set. No idea why I fought with them for so long and warrantied them so many times.
Loscaldazar
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- Feb 23, 2013
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So far what's been discussed in this thread...
Craftsman allen bit sockets ****, therefore you shouldn't buy new Proto or SK sockets (for regular nuts and bolts) since the craftsman allen bits **** and instead pay almost double for a set of used Snap On sockets off eBay.
Makes sense.....
I get the whole argument for you don't buy cheap hex bit sockets, but just because Snap On is one of the few companies that makes good hex bit sockets, doesn't mean cheaper regular sockets aren't just as strong.
Craftsman allen bit sockets ****, therefore you shouldn't buy new Proto or SK sockets (for regular nuts and bolts) since the craftsman allen bits **** and instead pay almost double for a set of used Snap On sockets off eBay.
Makes sense.....
I get the whole argument for you don't buy cheap hex bit sockets, but just because Snap On is one of the few companies that makes good hex bit sockets, doesn't mean cheaper regular sockets aren't just as strong.
Greasymofo
Well-known member
I've got some proto allen sockets and they are massive. Built like tanks. But yes they are expensive
Kirbot
Well-known member
Sounds about right.
(but on that note, harborfreight bit sockets are quite a bit better than Craftsman....)
in my experience/opinion hex/torx/etc sockets it's more important to be picky (especially in smaller sizes)... regular 6 point i've found just about anything but the junk sockets in the no name kits are going to get the job done
unless you're dealing in rather extreme amount of torque to break something loose but for the average rusty fastener you'll be fine with kobalt/cman/husky/etc
unless you're dealing in rather extreme amount of torque to break something loose but for the average rusty fastener you'll be fine with kobalt/cman/husky/etc
this is so messed up like others have said. don't buy anything other than snap-on tools because craftsman bit sockets ****
wtfthen finish it up with you don't care what brand you prefer, don't start a brand war and just pick the best.
just what the hell does your post mean because it doesn't make much sense.?
What are Lisle bit sockets like? They are made in Clarinda Iowa and are available almost all the parts stores plus Sears. Seems like a really available good option not that I don't love snap on product
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Same story as before. I tried Lisle triple squares and found them lacking. Last I used them I could only find Lisle and Snap On triple squares. There was a triple square on the starter bracket that doubled as an engine mount on the front of the VW 1.8 jetta/golf engine. I didn't strip the Lisle, but it didn't do well. I switched to Snap On and never had a problem.
I think there are other good quality bits and bit sockets available today. Vim comes to mind. But cap head screws are often used in high torque applications and areas with little access. That's a tough double whammy. Get good bit sockets. I especially like the stubbies because they are stiffer. Recently put one on a gun- no choice, worked well.
If you are looking at used either buy really cheap twisted Snap On and replace the bits or super clean. To be effective they have to be nice and sharp and straight.
Kirbot
Well-known member
The one piece torx bits are complete and utter garbage. In Sears, they were twice the price of craftsman evolve when I bought them, and that my first lesson in price not equaling quality.
Harbor freight/Kobalt/Husky, ANYTHING is a massive upgrade.
No idea on their other bit sockets though.
To the OP: My apologies if my post derailed your thread into a brand war. I, too, have started threads that quickly degraded into bashfests.
Disclaimer: The totality of the remaining comments in this post are my opinion only.
To Adam: I am not suggesting that SK or Proto are better than Snap On. I own full sets of Snap On, Proto, and Sk sockets, among others. I certainly do not consider any of them "cheap" tools. In my opinion, my Protos perform every bit as well as my Snap Ons. And I never made mention of Harbor Freight. I, and many others on this forum, could tell anecdotal stories of cheap tools resulting in added work and frustration. That is why I have upgraded my tools ("cheap" tools purchased years ago when money was short) to higher quality as money and opportunity allowed. My tongue in cheek post was simply in response to your "silly" comment. I, personally, would rather have high quality new tools for $60 than high quality used tools for $100. Now, let's go have a beer and swap more stories!
Disclaimer: The totality of the remaining comments in this post are my opinion only.
To Adam: I am not suggesting that SK or Proto are better than Snap On. I own full sets of Snap On, Proto, and Sk sockets, among others. I certainly do not consider any of them "cheap" tools. In my opinion, my Protos perform every bit as well as my Snap Ons. And I never made mention of Harbor Freight. I, and many others on this forum, could tell anecdotal stories of cheap tools resulting in added work and frustration. That is why I have upgraded my tools ("cheap" tools purchased years ago when money was short) to higher quality as money and opportunity allowed. My tongue in cheek post was simply in response to your "silly" comment. I, personally, would rather have high quality new tools for $60 than high quality used tools for $100. Now, let's go have a beer and swap more stories!
67King
Well-known member
I own 3 944's (Turbo, Turbo S, and a 968) and have owned a 4th (another 968). There is no pulley held in place by an allen head fastener. Most are held on by 17mm fasteners, but the FEAD belts are serviced wiht a 13mm and a 17mm wrench. The only pulley held on by an internal drive fastener is the pulley on the exhaust cam that is only loosened to set cam timing after the head has been off, and of course it requires enough special tools that it isn't something I've ever seen a DIYer do on a daily driven car (coincidentally, I'll be doing this today on my 968 as we get it ready for Sebring).
I suspect you were changing the timing belts, and rather than using the tool designed to use on the tensioner, you were trynig to get by with an allen bit. If my suspicion is correct, there is no reason, whatsoever, to blame the Craftsman for failing.
Interestingly, one of the few Snap-On tools I have purchased was a torx bit to remove the axles on a Merkur XR4Ti, which was brutal on those tools. But rather than twisting like most of the tools, the SO one snapped. Great that it was hard enough to not get chewed up, but it was TOO hard.
That said, I'm phasing out of Craftsman, and investing in SK.
I guess my memory of car repairs past isn't as good as I thought. The job I'm thinking of was done 25 years ago. See if this sounds right:
I immobilized the engine by removing the starter. Pinned that off so I could remove the crank pulley bolt. (I think I only did this the first time. After that I braced a ratchet and bumped the starter???).
I recall there was a big plastic shroud under the first set of pulleys, but in front of the timing belt??? So all pulleys had to come off to get the shroud off to access the next pulleys. Sound right? My car would have been most similar to your 968. I guess it was one of those pulleys I stripped. But I distinctly remember (as does my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time (and is still today))) my agony of defeat, the tow of shame, and high cost of a stripped fastener I simply couldn't remove.
I think I stripped the bolt, then broke the pulley trying to restrain it so I could use Vise grips (which rounded the bolt further). Something like that. Those pulleys were tricky and I never had the right tools.
The allen bolt story may have come from my wife's 1986 1.8L Jetta GLI. Pretty sure the crank pulley had 4 allen head bolts. So maybe I have my stories a bit mixed up. That car had a clearance engine. I know because the timing belt broke on the highway at 110,000 miles. It too was towed but I forget whether I towed it home and replaced the belt or towed it and had it fixed. But I stripped one of those screws too.
A couple years ago I snapped a Craftsman torx bit socket pulling the seats out of a full sized Chevy club van. Must have been a T47. Did the remaining bolts with borrowed Snap On (gold ones), with no problems. Guess I hadn't learned my lesson- a lesson I'm hoping the OP and other here will learn from me: Cheap tools aren't cheap.