Suggestions on my Shop Press design

[Jlowe]

Hey all,

Looking for some feedback on this Shop press design of mine, Due to my lack of spare time these days I find my self drawing on the computer a lot more to limit down time in the shed.

Have always wanted/needed a shop press but hate spending my money on junk tools and can't justify spending big dollars and hey I love fabricating.

Aside from design I'm wondering if there is any mathematic gurus on here to help calculate tonnage.

Here it goes, open to suggestions...

The Uprights are drawn as 150 (6in) PFC (parallel flange channel) with nb pipe welded in for table positioning, head piece is 2 x 200 PFC back to back and the table is 250 PFC welded together with 10mm plate, 4 x 25mm pins will be used for table location and 24 bolts to make the connection between uprights and head. Girder trolley type arrangement with a bottle jack upside down.

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[crab]

Looks pretty overbuilt to me, should be plenty strong for a bottle jack. Most commercial press I've seen aren't that well built. I'm going to build a small press that will sit on top of a bench for small stuff.

 

[zkling]

Do you understand the implications needed to invert a bottle jack?
Since you are going over the top on the frame I'd suggest a pneumatic or electric hydraulic pump. At the least a remote pump.

 

[Jlowe]

Sorry probably should of specified it will be air/hydraulic Jack at minimum, and yes aware of changes are required to run a jack upside down. one thing that worries me is how dam slow it will be the larger jack i go with.

Haven't spent anytime with hydraulics to set something up from scratch

 

[paramud]

Looks good to me, Just make the legs a little long so it doesnt fall over. Calculating the tonage can easily be done in any CAD software with FEA.

What 3d software did you use to design it?

 

[astroracer]

Just a few observations on my part.
1). The table is overdesigned for the head piece. No reason to go that stout when the head piece will deform before the table will.
2). The table, in your design, is supported at the ends only by the web thickness of the channel. Instead of running the pins thru the web, set the whole table on one larger pin. Weld one of your gussets between the channel sides, on the pin centerline, to help spread the load from bottom to top.
3). The 10mm plates connecting the table sides should be welded in at an angle pointing them toward the support pins from the center of the table.
This ^ instead of this [ ]. Welding them in at an angle helps push the load out to the support pins.
4). I would be concerned with the bottle jack on a trolley. IMHO the load should be centered on the table at all times. Not doing so can cause the press to rack or distort which can cause a catastrophic unloading of the table.
5). There is no return for the bottle jack when it is upside down.
6). As mentioned earlier widen up the foot print a bit and put the press on casters. I made a cart for mine and it has tons of storage for all of my press equipment.

Mark

 

[SM Racing]

I would only run two braces between the sides of the table. You want to keep the area under the press open for weird applications.

Pins need to go under the table, not through the table. I used 1.125 pins on my press. I use two.

Why the trolley on the jack? I don't think I have run into more than one instance where I would need to move the jack?

 

[Kevin54]

Yu have too many holes in your uprights, and you don't want webbing in between the sides of the table. You want the table open. The only webbing yu want is close to the uprights to hold the "C" Channel together.

I have a 30 ton and a 5 ton. I like the way the 30 ton is built because you can drop the table without it dropping all of the way down. The side braces in between the "C" channel are welded in at an angle, so it only lets one side drop down to the next hole or so.

I can take a pic of both if you are interested, but I currently have the jack out of the 30 to for a rebuild.

You also want the jack in an upright position unless you want to go to the trouble to make a fluid reservoir to take care of air bubbles that will occur. And when they do, the jack will not work correctly

 

[Jlowe]

After some valid suggestions from you all here is "V2".

Some what more of a complete drawing, Still some details left out. I guess the main reason for having a sliding head that i can see is when I'm dimpling larger pieces of sheet metal I'm not restricted, though it would be a rare occasion. So it wouldn't be heavy work that i would be doing off centre.

Being 1200mm (4 foot) between uppers its alot wider than most so i may not need the sliding head.

Ive redrawn the headpiece using the same size channel as the table but i realise if i stay with a sliding head it will be some what weaker with out the gussets that the table has, Id imagine that a mirror image would be best.

Pins now go under the table also

Some will be wondering why its "over engineered", its just what i do because i hate nothing more than rework and its something I plan to have it forever, and **** tools make life hell.


Would any one think with this design i could run a 50t jack? to ambitious?

I'll have to do more research on tonnage i think cause doing it on CAD is way beyond me as suggested by "paramud". Id love a proper hydraulic setup but looking around it can get expensive pretty quick. If i came across something second hand thats suitable i go down that path.

For those wanting to known, this is drawn in google sketchup, generally what i do my basic drawings in, anything I'm getting laser cut ill fine tune it in CAD.

Thrown in a pic of my tube bender I'm finishing off at the moment also

 

[Jlowe]

Just a few observations on my part.
1). The table is overdesigned for the head piece. No reason to go that stout when the head piece will deform before the table will.
2). The table, in your design, is supported at the ends only by the web thickness of the channel. Instead of running the pins thru the web, set the whole table on one larger pin. Weld one of your gussets between the channel sides, on the pin centerline, to help spread the load from bottom to top.
3). The 10mm plates connecting the table sides should be welded in at an angle pointing them toward the support pins from the center of the table.
This ^ instead of this [ ]. Welding them in at an angle helps push the load out to the support pins.
4). I would be concerned with the bottle jack on a trolley. IMHO the load should be centered on the table at all times. Not doing so can cause the press to rack or distort which can cause a catastrophic unloading of the table.
5). There is no return for the bottle jack when it is upside down.
6). As mentioned earlier widen up the foot print a bit and put the press on casters. I made a cart for mine and it has tons of storage for all of my press equipment.

Mark

Hey mark any chance of an over all photo of your press?

Cheers

 

[astroracer]

Sure, here is my build thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238768&highlight=roller+cart

 

[Kevin54]

Do you really need 50 tons? My big one is 30 tons and it just uses "C" channel, The only thing they did was welded another plate in the center of the "C" section of the table to strengthen it. This was a factory made Carolina press.

My 5 ton press I bought, and I wouldn't be afraid to swap jacks out for a 10 or 20 ton jack.

Both are beefy as hell. I just need to finish rebuilding the 30 ton jack because it must have a bad seal inside. I have the rebuild kit but can't get the ram out of the housing.

Even though you revised edition looks great, I think you still have too much overkill in it. We used a 50 ton Enerpac at work that was all hydraulic and I don't think we ever hit 50 tons when blanking out large diameter pieces of sheetmetal. It would make a loud bang, but we never hit max limit.

Like I said earlier, if you want, I can take a pic of each press, but I need to move a few things.

 

[aggierailroad]

What are the material sizes?

 

[Jlowe]

Pretty confident I don't need 50t, just easier to have it and not use it than not have it. 30t would probably be heaps,

Kevin54, where would you loose some material? Just in the head and table?

As it's drawn in latest pic it uses 150 (6in) Pfc up rights and 250 (10in) Pfc for the head and table


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[astroracer]

If you look thru my thread you will see my press. This is rated at 30 tons. When I bought it, the 20 ton jack on it as you see it. I have bent 5/8th's inch steel plate in my swag bender with the 20 ton jack. It will do 3/8's and 1/2" without breaking a sweat. Just saying this so you have some perspective. I would down size most of those compnents and save yourself some money. Have you priced out any of this steel yet? If not be prepared. You may just go buy one already built...

 

[Kevin54]

Pretty confident I don't need 50t, just easier to have it and not use it than not have it. 30t would probably be heaps,

Kevin54, where would you loose some material? Just in the head and table? As it's drawn in latest pic it uses 150 (6in) Pfc up rights and 250 (10in) Pfc for the head and table


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would take away some of the webbing in the table where you show it welded at an angle back and forth.

On my 30 ton, they took a 1/4" piece that fit between the "C" portion and laid it flat in there and tacked it in. I've put some heavy pressure to it and nothing has given at all. Let me get a couple of pics for you.

 

[Kevin54]

Here is the pic of the 5 ton first, and the pic of the 30 ton second

 

[Kevin54]

This is the 30 ton, which is a factory built 30 ton press from Carolina. If you look in the web of the table, you will see the 1/4" plate for added strength. the first pic shows the plate. And don't pay attention to the missing paint in the tiop channel as I ran out at the time and never got it finished up.

 

[alan camby]

I have posted mine quite a few times.
Maybe it will help.

More info and pics here
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137495&highlight=press+alan+camby

 

[Kevin54]

ALAN.....did you make a reservoir out of 80/20 material? And was it hard to get everything bled out as I see you have your jack upside down.

 

[alan camby]

ALAN.....did you make a reservoir out of 80/20 material? And was it hard to get everything bled out as I see you have your jack upside down.

It is a old SMC brand air cylinder housing.

I put the jack on its side, hose up, and pumped/extended jack all the way.
Pushed the ram back in and extended again.

Never had a problem with air. Have never bled it since. Besides the coupling welded to the jack, it is all stock.

I have mentioned before, If I did it again, I would just tap the fill hole to
1/4" npt since the fill port is not needed now. Than install a npt to push-on barb fitting.
Hose I used is Push-on flexloc made by Thermoid. No clamps needed.

 

[Jlowe]

I have posted mine quite a few times.
Maybe it will help.

More info and pics here
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137495&highlight=press+alan+camby

That looks really neat alan, it came up in all the searches I had done, great job.

 

[Jlowe]

Havent priced anything yet but i have a pretty good contact who builds commercial sheds so he always has some "laying around".

 

[csp]

I have the same 30 Carolina that Kevin54 has. The 30 ton jack is painfully slow.

Mine was purchased sight unseen and was abused in its previous life.

 

[Kevin54]

I have the same 30 Carolina that Kevin54 has. The 30 ton jack is painfully slow.

Mine was purchased sight unseen and was abused in its previous life.

Mine was abused also. I repainted things, called KYB uo and they sent me a new decal for the jack. I did have tro get back with them for a rebuild kit which was $19.00 but I don't have the jack rebuilt yet. I need to find a way to get the ram out of the housing. I took the snap ring out but I can't get the ram out. I need to get the come-a-long and fasten it between to points and pull it out, then I can get it rebuilt.

 

[csp]

Mine would require cutting it apart and replacing some of the steel to make it presentable. The pressing plate won't even go up and down along the guide pins effectively.

 

[Jlowe]

Mine would require cutting it apart and replacing some of the steel to make it presentable. The pressing plate won't even go up and down along the guide pins effectively.

holy hell thats has a hard life, pretty much why I want to build mine "overkill"

 

[454ragtop]

Might consider a winch for the table, one of the best mods I did to my bottle jack press.
Posted some pics here http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278853
Jim

 

[M@stern@ter]

Kevin54, I would like dimensions of your 5 ton press

 

[Jagmandave]

One caution about the winch to raise and lower the table - we have a 50 ton at school and often I find the students haven't lowered the winch enough to take the tension off the cables, so when they start pressing all the force is on the cables instead of the pins.

I paid $85 for my HF 20 ton - used - and people can scoff if they want, but there's never been anything I needed to do with it in my home shop that it couldn't do.... and I've had it just about maxxed out a couple of times - but it still came thru.

If I were running a commercial shop I might think otherwise, but for the things I do it's more than adequate.

What is the advantage of having the bottle jack upside down?

 

[chinsk]

I have a Princess Auto (Canadian HF) 20t press. Cheap but it has paid for its self several times over. It is the black heavy duty version, and has the removable threaded in pushing tip. Handy to be able to change the tip if it gets damaged. I always seem to be using ½’ and ¾’ drive sockets to press with, so I’m planning on getting another tip or same thread pattern large bolt, and welding a socket square drive on to it, so I can hold a socket on the raised press tip, instead of balancing everything while I bring the press down. Chris

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin54, I would like dimensions of your 5 ton press

Give me a little while and I'll make up a drawing. I should have it done in an hour or so.

 

[Kevin54]

M@[email protected] you have any programs to read blueprints, or will I have to send you this in PAINT? I can save it in a few different extensions, but if you can't read them, I'll have to send it to you as a jpg. picture.

And how much detail do you need? A full blown blueprint, or a partial along with some pictures, or both?

 

[steel 35]

(4 foot) between uppers its alot wider than most so i may not need the sliding head.
Would any one think with this design i could run a 50t jack?

I will be waiting to see this finished with two Air/Hyd Jacks, mostly for a longer break.

 

[Kevin54]

Mine would require cutting it apart and replacing some of the steel to make it presentable. The pressing plate won't even go up and down along the guide pins effectively.

That looks pretty much like something for the scrappers, or for CL, to unload on someone else. Mine is a 30 Ton Carolina and I don't see how your could have gotten that trashed unless they had a jack that was WAY over capacity for the frame. There isn't a way to straighten anything, and as many bent pieces you have, by the time you cut the bad off and put on new, you've built yourself a brand new press.

 

[Kevin54]

Mine would require cutting it apart and replacing some of the steel to make it presentable. The pressing plate won't even go up and down along the guide pins effectively.

That looks pretty much like something for the scrappers, or for CL, to unload on someone else. Mine is a 50 Ton Carolina and I don't see how your could have gotten that trashed unless they had a jack that was WAY over capacity for the frame. There isn't a way to straighten anything, and as many bent pieces you have, by the time you cut the bad off and put on new, you've built yourself a brand new press.

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin54, I would like dimensions of your 5 ton press

Here is a few prints of my 5 ton. Let me know if you can read them or need any more description and / or pics of the press for clarity

 

[Kevin54]

Sorry guys....I'll have to figure out how to downsize these

 

[M@stern@ter]

Thanks for those!! Kevin54

 

[Kevin54]

If they are too large to get off of here, let ,me know your e-mail and I will semd them at regular size. I don't know what happened here