yard/driveway drainage ideas

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

So I have some drainage issues down my driveway. Looking for ideas. Here are some pics with some "graphics" to give an idea of what I am thinking.
Driveway shot:

Drain idea - small shallow drain with pipe leading off in the yard. As you can see, dirt has washed away, so i need to add a couple inches. I have thinned out the trees some so more grass should grow in the center area, which should help. :

Here is the other side - though of one of those long skinny drains and then boring under the driveway and tying into the other pipe and down the grass:

Close up of the drain idea. I would have to do some "shaping" and adding of asphalt. Since it is a driveway, I would want it to be sturdy - I am betting someone will put a tire on it at some point.....

Looking for opinions, thoughts, ideas...
Thanks!

 

[TonkaJoe]

I have a background in construction with several years experience in mining and road/water/sewer and site development.
From the pictures you have it looks to me like you have a recently paved drive? either that or it's holding up very well. In your first and second picture it looks like the water is flowing as it needs to with the ''lay of the land'' that you have on your property, it's important to try and not disrupt natural water ways that you have for drainage on your land.
In the second last picture where you indicate you'd like to bore under the driveway and install drainage I'd advise not doing so. Boring underneath will weaken the asphalt and disrupt the compaction of your base. If you get a heavy winter there's a really probable chance that the spot where you have your pipe running will either heave from frost or sink ruining that nice pave job!. Had the drainage pipe been there previously it would already be settled and you'd be ok.
On the 3rd picture where the ground is rather bare and you have roughly a 2'' drop off of the asphalt instead of just dropping grass seed I would have a close look at where the water is running naturally and gently slope it away from your driveway with as shovel. After I'd top dress with sod.
The 4th picture where you have a puddle running off onto the drive, I'd build that area along the driveway up with compacted topsoil and then top dress with sod. Grass seed will only drown or wash away in those areas so save yourself the fight. Not only will the topsoil and sod help to avoid puddles and perform natural absorption they will also help to protect the edges of your drive way if anyone was to ever run a tire off the edge.

 

[Kaizen]

nice job on the pics. if it were mine I'd dig a trench 16-24 inches deep and about the same along the areas that it is washing out and put in a perforated pipe with sock over it leading to a plastic drywell or just a large hole like 4 feet cubed with larger gravel. fill trench with larger gravel to keep from clogging. visually it will not be as clean as driveway right to grass but more functional.
The grass will help but I'd think of making planting areas with nice loose dirt and 4inches of mulch. so connect a couple of trees with a big bed. hostas or the like perennial .

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... I Agree 100% with Tonkajoe,...

You don't have a problem, but yer plan will cause problems,....

Just shim up the lawns, 'n reseed, gettin' rid of the puddles, 'n allowin' the water to flow, as it does now,.....

 

[theoldwizard1]

nice job on the pics. if it were mine I'd dig a trench 16-24 inches deep and about the same along the areas that it is washing out and put in a perforated pipe with sock over it leading to a plastic drywell or just a large hole like 4 feet cubed with larger gravel. fill trench with larger gravel to keep from clogging.

THIS ^^^^ will solve the problem for sure !

Dig down the full 24". When back filling the trench, start by laying a piece of landscape cloth that is about 3 time the depth of your trench with the center line at the bottom of the trench. Then put down your sock covered perforated pipe (use solid nor corrugated; less likely to clog) and cover with gravel to within about 6" of grade. Fold in the extra cloth and fill with the top soil you remove.

This and the drywell have kept my garage dry for over 5 years now.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Boring underneath will weaken the asphalt and disrupt the compaction of your base. If you get a heavy winter there's a really probable chance that the spot where you have your pipe running will either heave from frost or sink ruining that nice pave job!. Had the drainage pipe been there previously it would already be settled and you'd be ok.

So TonkaJoe, what about an open trench drain, with grate, across the drive ?

Cut the asphalt, remove some material and insert drain. Silicon sealant between the drain and the asphalt.

 

[Bondo]

THIS ^^^^ will solve the problem for sure !

Dig down the full 24". When back filling the trench, start by laying a piece of landscape cloth that is about 3 time the depth of your trench with the center line at the bottom of the trench. Then put down your sock covered perforated pipe (use solid nor corrugated; less likely to clog) and cover with gravel to within about 6" of grade. Fold in the extra cloth and fill with the top soil you remove.

This and the drywell have kept my garage dry for over 5 years now.

Ayuh,.... That sub-surface drainage will just clog with tree roots,....

So TonkaJoe, what about an open trench drain, with grate, across the drive ?

Cut the asphalt, remove some material and insert drain. Silicon sealant between the drain and the asphalt.

That'll just be a speed bump,...

Any frost will cause it to heave,...

 

[volleyball]

With the raised asphalt it does appear to be recent. Hindsight would have had you plan this into the paving.
I think the best way is to dig the lawn to naturally drain the water away from the driveway. Is there any plan to raise the grade on the side of the drive to get rid of that sharp edge which will creep if you don't contain it.
If you put the drain next to the drive, move it a bit further out and you won't be as likely to drive over it.
What is the soil like? Easy draining?

 

[yeldogt]

In my experience it is better to have a slight slope on each side of the driveway and then the drains That way the driveway drains on both sides and you slope the ground slightly to the drains in the problem spots. The problem is not the water falling from the sky onto the driveway -- the problem is the water running onto the driveway -- you have to get drains on the ground before the water hits the drive.

What is happening at the head of the drive -- do you have gutters going onto it. It looks like you must have a lot of water coming down the driveway and hitting that corner by the car park

 

[TonkaJoe]

^ As Bondo stated I have a feeling that eventually that pipe would become root bound since the roots are attracted to water.. If there wasn't a tree directly in the area it would otherwise be another good option.

Theoldwizard1- That's also a good idea, however cutting into the asphalt like that can lead to eventual cracking, heaving or sinking. If any frozen water were to be caught in there during winter months it will expand and contract causing the above issues.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the feedback! Here is a pic of the top of the drive where the water is coming from:

Another shot of the water coming down the driveway

I will try to address any questions.
The drive is a couple years old, 2011 I think. We bought the house last March, otherwise I would have put a drain in.
The third pic you can see where the water from the upper part of the driveway funnels and has washed out the dirt. If I build that up - grass or mulch (grass would be tough because of the tree canopy there), it just pushes the water further down the driveway and it would eventually flow into the grass and wash out somewhere else.

I guess I could see how well grass/sod absorbs the water - right now the dirt creates pools. The thought was if I could channel some of the water, it would: a) prevent washout due to volume coming down the driveway and b) prevent the volume from creating pools like this around the trees:

Cutting into the drive or boring under it is probably overkill for the one side. This might be the case of working the yard slope on that side with good grass growth might be fine. As you can see in the first pic, I do have a trailer that I access occasionally. I did also park my excursion there for a while - when I had small leak and did not want it on the driveway. But that is not the case anymore. That prevented grass growth and created compacted dirt - hence the spillover onto the driveway and across to the other side.

 

[yeldogt]

In the second set of pictures the land looks flatter -- will water drain to the right looking at the third picture from above -- looking at the two cars?

I have had a couple of houses with this type of situation. You have to start at the top and work down if you want the driveway to drain. I am in a cold climate so I need the driveway to drain so it will not freeze.

Compacted soil will not drain ... creating a low spot and filling it with grasses and ground cover also works

 

[nolimits76]

If you want to get really heavy duty on the drain work, talk with a local precast supplier and they can supply concrete area inlets and traffic rated grates and/or grated ring & covers that won't break when you drive on them. I'd look at the Deeter #1950 ring & cover and also Deeter #2444 for the frame & grate if you want a square/rectangle inlet.

Those items can get pricey quick...for instance, a single frame & grate will run about $260/ea and the #1950 will run around $300/ea. Concrete inlets will be in the $300-500 range per structure up to a depth of around 2.5' to 3'. Then you have the pipe, trenching, etc to make all the magic happen.

http://www.deeter.com/products/catch-basin-inlet-grates-frames-covers/2444-a
http://www.deeter.com/products/round-inlet-grates-frames-covers/1950

Alternatively you may look into Nyloplast products. They are more affordable and easier to work with for a DIY person. To address your concerns of maybe driving on a grated lid, make sure you get items that are H-20 load rated and you will be good. That basically means traffic rated.

http://www.nyloplast-us.com/inline-drains

Personally I'd probably consider the nyloplast route. Strategically setup some collection points along your driveway and trench me a line to street where it looks like you have a drainage ditch. Then regrade, slope & sod around those trees so water moves to drain points.

 

[jpcjguy]

In the second set of pictures the land looks flatter -- will water drain to the right looking at the third picture from above -- looking at the two cars?

I have had a couple of houses with this type of situation. You have to start at the top and work down if you want the driveway to drain. I am in a cold climate so I need the driveway to drain so it will not freeze.

Compacted soil will not drain ... creating a low spot and filling it with grasses and ground cover also works

The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pics are from a second story window. It does appear flatter. Only way I could get a decent "top" view. I have added some lines that show the slope. Maybe this helps:

On the left I created a kind of "chute" where the water, if enough of it, would eventually drain. But we are talking 40 year storm type water. Above the hood of the excursion is where all the water from above coming down the driveway goes - that area where I put the fancy pic of the drain with the holes

 

[jpcjguy]

If you want to get really heavy duty on the drain work, talk with a local precast supplier and they can supply concrete area inlets and traffic rated grates and/or grated ring & covers that won't break when you drive on them. I'd look at the Deeter #1950 ring & cover and also Deeter #2444 for the frame & grate if you want a square/rectangle inlet.

Those items can get pricey quick...for instance, a single frame & grate will run about $260/ea and the #1950 will run around $300/ea. Concrete inlets will be in the $300-500 range per structure up to a depth of around 2.5' to 3'. Then you have the pipe, trenching, etc to make all the magic happen.

http://www.deeter.com/products/catch-basin-inlet-grates-frames-covers/2444-a
http://www.deeter.com/products/round-inlet-grates-frames-covers/1950

Alternatively you may look into Nyloplast products. They are more affordable and easier to work with for a DIY person. To address your concerns of maybe driving on a grated lid, make sure you get items that are H-20 load rated and you will be good. That basically means traffic rated.

http://www.nyloplast-us.com/inline-drains

Personally I'd probably consider the nyloplast route. Strategically setup some collection points along your driveway and trench me a line to street where it looks like you have a drainage ditch. Then regrade, slope & sod around those trees so water moves to drain points.

Thanks for the info on the nyloplast - that is what I had in mind. The drain and pipe past the treeline was my idea to reduce the overall water volume in the tree area. As you can see in the pics -with the water ringing around the trees (previous owner carved ruts with his zero turn mower), it is the low point. So this area will get enough as it is, I thought if I could divert the driveway runoff, it would help. I am not opposed to a drain to a dry well, but digging that out might adversely affect the trees and we want to keep them. Hence the though of a semi-shallow pipe before I add a couple inches of dirt to level over the exposed roots (from washout) and plant grass.

 

[Bondo]

The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pics are from a second story window. It does appear flatter. Only way I could get a decent "top" view. I have added some lines that show the slope. Maybe this helps:

On the left I created a kind of "chute" where the water, if enough of it, would eventually drain. But we are talking 40 year storm type water. Above the hood of the excursion is where all the water from above coming down the driveway goes - that area where I put the fancy pic of the drain with the holes

Ayuh,.... In this picture,... on the Right side of the driveway,.....

Can the wet spots be connected by a slight swale, 'n be continued to the drainage ditch, at the road,..??
That'll stop the water flow across the driveway,.....

On the Left side of the driveway,.....
Outside the trees, in the lawn, that berm at the transition could be lowered, allowin, the entire tree lined side yard to drain much easier,.....

For the drainage swale that starts at the bronco,...
Fill a small area with 3"/ 4" rocks, to slow the water, 'n then allow it to flow exactly where it flows now,....
The present swale can be tuned, maybe deepened where needed, dryin' out the areas of the tree lined side yard, that cuttin' the outer berm don't drain,....

Then either sod it, or get some sorta grass growin' in there,.....

If ya wanted, you could channelize the present swale, 'n fill it with the same 3"/ 4" rock from the splash basin ya build at the bronco,...

Ya got pretty good fall through there,...
No reason for subterranean plumbed drainage,...

Btw, on a side note, I always advise my customers to back up the edge of the blacktop, from flush with the top of the blacktop, out a few feet with top dirt, 'n grass,...
It gives Alota strength to the edges, 'n when ya drive off the edge, it's less likely to bust off,...

The 3"/ 4" stones in the splash basin in the radis will also help in that way,...
No damage when driven over,...

 

[CNGsaves]

Oooyah . . or . . ijuiah . . . or yabba dabba . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . I don't really see any problem !!

FACTS:
Driveway recently put in. Yard hasn't had chance to grow back in, or poor soil.

Improve soil in those locations and seed . . . . or . . . sod.

Way overthinking this that underground pipes "needed" for normal surface flow.

 

[jpcjguy]

Ayuh,.... In this picture,... on the Right side of the driveway,.....

Can the wet spots be connected by a slight swale, 'n be continued to the drainage ditch, at the road,..??
That'll stop the water flow across the driveway,.....

On the Left side of the driveway,.....
Outside the trees, in the lawn, that berm at the transition could be lowered, allowin, the entire tree lined side yard to drain much easier,.....

For the drainage swale that starts at the bronco,...
Fill a small area with 3"/ 4" rocks, to slow the water, 'n then allow it to flow exactly where it flows now,....
The present swale can be tuned, maybe deepened where needed, dryin' out the areas of the tree lined side yard, that cuttin' the outer berm don't drain,....

Then either sod it, or get some sorta grass growin' in there,.....

If ya wanted, you could channelize the present swale, 'n fill it with the same 3"/ 4" rock from the splash basin ya build at the bronco,...

Ya got pretty good fall through there,...
No reason for subterranean plumbed drainage,...

Btw, on a side note, I always advise my customers to back up the edge of the blacktop, from flush with the top of the blacktop, out a few feet with top dirt, 'n grass,...
It gives Alota strength to the edges, 'n when ya drive off the edge, it's less likely to bust off,...

The 3"/ 4" stones in the splash basin in the radis will also help in that way,...
No damage when driven over,...

The arrow across the driveway is the lowest spot on the driveway, from that arrow to the road is uphill. Any overflow water from the uphill side (where the trailer is parked in one of the pics) will end up going across the driveway. That I am not as concerned with because I think with good grass growing or sod, I would at least prevent the dirt wash across the driveway.

As for the left side, this kind of ties into another thread I had ( and a lot of you responded about excavating/grading for a driveway to a detached garage) (thank you for that). - Here is the thread that has more pics:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275523&showall=1

In that thread you can see the debate of having a 12" culvert in the swell under where a gravel driveway would go. The small drain and pipe would drain into that. In this pic:

 

[TonkaJoe]

Ayuh,.... In this picture,... on the Right side of the driveway,.....

Can the wet spots be connected by a slight swale, 'n be continued to the drainage ditch, at the road,..??
That'll stop the water flow across the driveway,.....

On the Left side of the driveway,.....
Outside the trees, in the lawn, that berm at the transition could be lowered, allowin, the entire tree lined side yard to drain much easier,.....

For the drainage swale that starts at the bronco,...
Fill a small area with 3"/ 4" rocks, to slow the water, 'n then allow it to flow exactly where it flows now,....
The present swale can be tuned, maybe deepened where needed, dryin' out the areas of the tree lined side yard, that cuttin' the outer berm don't drain,....

Then either sod it, or get some sorta grass growin' in there,.....

If ya wanted, you could channelize the present swale, 'n fill it with the same 3"/ 4" rock from the splash basin ya build at the bronco,...

Ya got pretty good fall through there,...
No reason for subterranean plumbed drainage,...

Btw, on a side note, I always advise my customers to back up the edge of the blacktop, from flush with the top of the blacktop, out a few feet with top dirt, 'n grass,...
It gives Alota strength to the edges, 'n when ya drive off the edge, it's less likely to bust off,...

The 3"/ 4" stones in the splash basin in the radis will also help in that way,...
No damage when driven over,...

^ That is similar to what I would suggest regarding directing the water along the right side of the driveway and to the left of your main tree line on the left hand side of the driveway after looking at these new pictures. Also strongly agree with reinforcing the edges.. it does make quite the difference!

 

[jpcjguy]

Oooyah . . or . . ijuiah . . . or yabba dabba . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . I don't really see any problem !!

FACTS:
Driveway recently put in. Yard hasn't had chance to grow back in, or poor soil.

Improve soil in those locations and seed . . . . or . . . sod.

Way overthinking this that underground pipes "needed" for normal surface flow.

You could be absolutely correct - It all started with thinking of how to prevent the washout in the red area below. If I put a "guard" or something up (in blue), the water would flow past and drain into the yard at the yellow arrows - what is preventing it from washing out there then? I do plan on adding a couple inches of good soil in the orange area - to cover the roots and have better soil for grass/sod. Can't go any higher to risk the trees so it will always be a "basin". The drain and pipes idea was also to reduce volume in the basin (orange) area.

 

[Bondo]

The arrow across the driveway is the lowest spot on the driveway, from that arrow to the road is uphill. Any overflow water from the uphill side (where the trailer is parked in one of the pics) will end up going across the driveway. That I am not as concerned with because I think with good grass growing or sod, I would at least prevent the dirt wash across the driveway.

As for the left side, this kind of ties into another thread I had ( and a lot of you responded about excavating/grading for a driveway to a detached garage) (thank you for that). - Here is the thread that has more pics:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275523&showall=1

In that thread you can see the debate of having a 12" culvert in the swell under where a gravel driveway would go. The small drain and pipe would drain into that. In this pic:

Ayuh,.... I remember the thread, remember the yard,...

So We'll forget 'bout the left side of the drive,...

Put a stone basin, right there at yer red circle 'n tune that swale, so's it drains the entire tree lined side yard,....

The surface drainage works,.... it just needs Tunin',....

 

[gregtwojeeps]

My wife and I have spent the last month looking for a home in the country and never did see anything as nice as the OP has pictures of here. What we did see was where builders that built homes did not know how to use a transit or design a grade, to where the water would flow AWAY from the house. We witnessed SO many homes that sat in a sinkhole, one row of cinder block too low and NO way to get the water to flow away from the house...

So I am with Tonka, don't butcher a good driveway with undercutting pipes and trench drains. As long as the water drains off of the drive, all is good. A little topsoil to create run off away from the trees, is all I see needed. Otherwise, I am jealous of this fine piece of land. Good luck to the OP in accepting what nature will eventually handle herself. Just be thankful the water is not housebound.

 

[jpcjguy]

Ayuh,.... I remember the thread, remember the yard,...

So We'll forget 'bout the left side of the drive,...

Put a stone basin, right there at yer red circle 'n tune that swale, so's it drains the entire tree lined side yard,....

The surface drainage works,.... it just needs Tunin',....

Glad you remember the thread and yard - so you see how I am trying to think of the whole yard - (taking me to 40+yrs old to try and do things once! )
I guess I could do the stone by the tree and create a small swell in the "basin" that would "meet" where the pipe under the gravel driveway would be. (In the swell in other side of the yard - see other thread for details)
This would keep in line the concept of keeping the water going "where it naturally goes"

 

[jpcjguy]

My wife and I have spent the last month looking for a home in the country and never did see anything as nice as the OP has pictures of here. What we did see was where builders that built homes did not know how to use a transit or design a grade, to where the water would flow AWAY from the house. We witnessed SO many homes that sat in a sinkhole, one row of cinder block too low and NO way to get the water to flow away from the house...

So I am with Tonka, don't butcher a good driveway with undercutting pipes and trench drains. As long as the water drains off of the drive, all is good. A little topsoil to create run off away from the trees, is all I see needed. Otherwise, I am jealous of this fine piece of land. Good luck to the OP in accepting what nature will eventually handle herself. Just be thankful the water is not housebound.

Thank you for the kind words. The house is circa 1993 and we do love the property. I am just trying to tweak it some to minimize the mud and maintenance. ( twin almost 5 year old boys that have a tractor beam to the stuff!)

 

[Bondo]

You could be absolutely correct - It all started with thinking of how to prevent the washout in the red area below. If I put a "guard" or something up (in blue), the water would flow past and drain into the yard at the yellow arrows - what is preventing it from washing out there then? I do plan on adding a couple inches of good soil in the orange area - to cover the roots and have better soil for grass/sod. Can't go any higher to risk the trees so it will always be a "basin". The drain and pipes idea was also to reduce volume in the basin (orange) area.

Ayuh,.... In this picture, I see 'bout 4 or 5 wheelbarrows of 3" washed crushed limestone,....
A few rocks from the what appears to be a 6x6, along the edge of the drive, followin' the driveway line, 'n the tree's mulch line, out to where the last yellow arrow is, across to the lower outer tree mulch ring edge,...

A stone splash basin, that'll back up the edge of the black top radis, slowin' the water to a trickle,...

Kinda like a gambion,...

 

[jpcjguy]

Ayuh,.... In this picture, I see 'bout 4 or 5 wheelbarrows of 3" washed crushed limestone,....
A few rocks from the what appears to be a 6x6, along the edge of the drive, followin' the driveway line, 'n the tree's mulch line, out to where the last yellow arrow is, across to the lower outer tree mulch ring edge,...

A stone splash basin, that'll back up the edge of the black top radis, slowin' the water to a trickle,...

Kinds like a gambion,...

Gotcha - good idea. Trying to minimize the loose stone usage. As you can see I have a ton of leaves - so I do a lot with my backpack blower - stones and mulch are pain. Also stones are weapons - twin almost 5 year old boys and a 18 month old daughter. If a kid doesn't get hit, it is a vehicle - either way I am ticked.

 

[CNGsaves]

Ayuh,.... In this picture, I see 'bout 4 or 5 wheelbarrows of 3" washed crushed limestone,....
A few rocks from the what appears to be a 6x6, along the edge of the drive, followin' the driveway line, 'n the tree's mulch line, out to where the last yellow arrow is, across to the lower outer tree mulch ring edge,...

A stone splash basin, that'll back up the edge of the black top radis, slowin' the water to a trickle,...

Kinds like a gambion,...

^ ^ You have any "personal dictionary" to describe the gobbly gook bolded above??

What country speaks or writes like that??

You do realize that every word GJ underlines is red likely not really a word??

Your computer missing the letter . . g . . or . . . letter . . . a . . . except of course for that blasted . . . . Ayuh !!!

 

[Bondo]

^ ^ You have any "personal dictionary" to describe the gobbly gook bolded above??

What country speaks or writes like that??

You do realize that every word GJ underlines is red likely not really a word??

Your computer missing the letter . . g . . or . . . letter . . . a . . . except of course for that blasted . . . . Ayuh !!!

Ayuh,.... Sorry masa,... The m didn't belong there,.....

Gabion,...


If my posts piss some of you off, That Bad,...

Don't read 'em,...... there might even be an ignore list in yer cp, use it,...

 

[CNGsaves]

Ayuh,.... Sorry masa,... The m didn't belong there,.....

Gabion,...


If my posts piss some of you off, That Bad,...

Don't read 'em,...... there might even be an ignore list in yer cp, use it,...

So the gambion (corrected as gabion) and ayuh . . . . . reveal . . .
. . . . .
. . . . . . . part Italian . . . but with Maine speak ???

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ayuh

Also don't have a . . . . . .cp . . . . . . . instead have a HP !!!

 

[Bondo]

So the gambion (corrected as gabion) and ayuh . . . . . reveal . . .
. . . . .
. . . . . . . part Italian . . . but with Maine speak ???

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ayuh

Also don't have a . . . . . .cp . . . . . . . instead have a HP !!!

Ayuh,... Donno where ya get ginny, but I guess if I gotta spell it out for ya,...

A Maineiac in exile on the eastern shores of the Sweetwater Seas,....

Heritage is Indian, English, French,....

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ That helps. I'll try to keep 3 dictionaries handy, or multiple Google browsers open to analyze your posts !!

OP, the "gabion" or landscape rock idea is a good one for that tree in the "wash out" area . . . . or better described as runoff area. Some subtle smooth curbing/landscape feature around that tree might send water down the driveway where it could slow down without any erosion. Could be a half-moon shape with annual flower plantings around the tree.

Any areas right next to road that get driven on (ie too narrow or long trailer behind vehicle) might also get a landscape feature integrated with pavers in similar fashion as Formula 1 tracks have runout section at apex of curves. This could add some interest to the long driveway. A local garden center might suggest some hardscape/softscape to enhance the entire driveway and improve waterflow at the same time. Once water is slowed down, mature grass won't wash out during surface flow during rainstorms.

I think you can accomplish what you want without any underground trenching or pipes.

 

[SALIV8]

Ayuh,... Donno where ya get ginny, but I guess if I gotta spell it out for ya,...

A Maineiac in exile on the eastern shores of the Sweetwater Seas,....

Heritage is Indian, English, French,....

I think CNGsaves is gonna also ask if you like long walks on the beach, and then probably what color eyes you have...