Clarification... are *all* outlets in shop required to be GFCI?
- Thread starter johnstra
- Start date
The only gfci outlet I have in my shop i.e. not attached to a house is in the bathroom.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I believe code says now says GFCI are required in "damp" places. Concrete floors are considered damp. Or maybe it just says concrete floors.
The only exception I have heard of in a garage is an outlet dedicated for a refrigerator/freezer (false trip causes spoil food).
The only exception I have heard of in a garage is an outlet dedicated for a refrigerator/freezer (false trip causes spoil food).
this is what I needed to know. Thanks.
justsam
Well-known member
Difficult to answer since we do not know what country you are in.
Most areas in US it is required. Easy way is to just use a GFI breaker.
Most areas in US it is required. Easy way is to just use a GFI breaker.
SweetD
Well-known member
+1 this is how mine was done by my super ****-retentive master electrician.
In hindsight, I would've had at least one other circuit run at the time. I ended up running one myself last year so I could have a dedicated four-outlet gang on my bench top, and I used a GFCI receptacle in it, and daisied it to the other standard receptacle in the box.
I learned how to do this from the excellent guys here on GJ.
Dave (not an electrician)
DC73
Well-known member
New codes do require all outlets in a garage to be GFCI protected. You can get GFCI breakers but they are about 3 x the cost of a GFCI receptacle so Black_Z28's way is the most economical method. I was told that exceptions are made in garages for outlets mounted in the ceiling for plugging in shop lights but that may depend on local codes in your area and/or particular inspectors. I decided to hard wire my lights anyway.
If you need to buy multiple GFCI outlets, look for the 3 pack at Lowes. That's the best bang for the buck. Home Depot may be similar but I haven't checked there, yet.
DC
nafterclifen
Well-known member
Home Depot carries a 3-pack Leviton GFCI. It is much cheaper than buying 3 individually.
scissorman
Well-known member
I just bought the 20A GFCI 3 pack at HD for $33.97.
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
Same here for the inside plugs, the outside are GFCI.
Commercial occupancies. Per 210.8, you must install GFCI protection for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles located in bathrooms, rooftops, and kitchens in commercial/industrial facilities. However, GFCI protection is not required for receptacles installed outside a commercial or industrial occupancy. And then the fight started...
Commercial Garages
511.12 GFCI Protection for Personnel
GFCI protection is required for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles used for service and repair operations such as electrical automotive diagnostic equipment, electrical hand-tools, or portable lighting devices etc.
Agricultural Buildings
547.5 Wiring Methods
(G) Receptacles. All 15 and 20A, 125V general-purpose receptacles installed in the locations specified below must have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) In areas having an equipotential plane [547.10(A)]
(2) Outdoors
(3) Damp or wet areas
I guess ultimately, consult with the AHJ and see what they require.
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alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Here is the Section in the 2011 NEC that deals with it.
210.8
(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt, singlephase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(B)(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Kitchens
(3) Rooftops
(4) Outdoors
(6) Indoor wet locations
(7) Locker rooms with associated showering facilities
(8) Garages, service bays, and similar areas where electrical diagnostic equipment, electrical hand tools, or portable lighting equipment are to be used.
So if you aren't planning on using any electrical hand tools
(fat chance) you don't need to install GFIs
210.8
(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt, singlephase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(B)(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Kitchens
(3) Rooftops
(4) Outdoors
(6) Indoor wet locations
(7) Locker rooms with associated showering facilities
(8) Garages, service bays, and similar areas where electrical diagnostic equipment, electrical hand tools, or portable lighting equipment are to be used.
So if you aren't planning on using any electrical hand tools
(fat chance) you don't need to install GFIsFalcon67
Well-known member
Every one in the shop and even the ones in the race trailer are GFCI
chrispyny
Well-known member
Home depot has a Square D QO 20A GFCI AFCI Breaker for $59.
I have been remodeling my garage to bring it up to GJ standards after work a few hours each night over the last month. I have another month or so of work to do at my current pace.
I have been replacing three single gang outlet boxes and 40 year old outlets, with dual gang (four socket) outlet boxes and outlets. From the answers i see here and my own investigating, these outlets im installing should be GFCI protected. So i'll be using this GFCI/AFCI breaker instread. Don't wanna rely on one GFCI protected outlet to protect the others run in parallel. The sky is the limit i guess. It depends on what work you want to do.
reddevildemo
Well-known member
Just built this year, 3.5 stall attached, Wisconsin so codes may be different. All wall outlets GFI, daisy chained so actual count is 4 , one for each circuit. No GFI required for the ceiling outlets.
sberry
Banned
I like the outlets. The pricey breaker is a problem.
I had a hose come loose a while back, sprayed the place down before the operator shut it off. went to start a fan, cord connected and the gfci had done its job. It ws an hour before we got it repaired and back up, by then everything had dried and a simple reset was all it took.
Why not? 3 for 34$ and easy install.
I had a hose come loose a while back, sprayed the place down before the operator shut it off. went to start a fan, cord connected and the gfci had done its job. It ws an hour before we got it repaired and back up, by then everything had dried and a simple reset was all it took.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
>Don't wanna rely on one GFCI protected outlet to protect the others run in parallel.
All mine in the shop are like that - head of run is a GFCI, downstream on the load side. Last shop was that way too. No problems. I have 5 plug runs, thats $300 in breakers vs about $50 in GFCI outlets.
All mine in the shop are like that - head of run is a GFCI, downstream on the load side. Last shop was that way too. No problems. I have 5 plug runs, thats $300 in breakers vs about $50 in GFCI outlets.
sberry
Banned
I have some around gfci, a couple for grounded heating equipment, a couple really should have and a couple dedicated that are not. I aint to scared to find one to plug in to when dealing with wet messes etc. Especially out door, dealing with cords, forgot and unattended
I would not use an AFCI for garage outlet circuits. They false-trip frequently when using power tools that have motors with brushes.
2CRUZ
Well-known member
That is how I did it in my new garage.
I went the GFCI outlet daisy chain method in my new shop for all but one outlet.
I recently posted a question about what breaker, cable and outlet to use for my 110v Lincoln welder. Based on the replies, I was planning on going with #12 wire, 20 amp breaker and a heavy duty/commercial grade duplex outlet. The duplex outlet was going to be the only outlet on the circuit (i.e., a 20A dedicated circuit). Should I be using a GFCI outlet and not a standard duplex outlet?
I recently posted a question about what breaker, cable and outlet to use for my 110v Lincoln welder. Based on the replies, I was planning on going with #12 wire, 20 amp breaker and a heavy duty/commercial grade duplex outlet. The duplex outlet was going to be the only outlet on the circuit (i.e., a 20A dedicated circuit). Should I be using a GFCI outlet and not a standard duplex outlet?
DC73
Well-known member
Technically I believe the code requires you to have that outlet GFCI protected. You could install a GFCI breaker or they do make a heavy duty 20 Amp GFCI outlet.
DC
LifeLongWNYer
Well-known member
You know guys, I have lived a long time working is a garage without GFI's and I am still alive. I "think" I am smart enough to figure out what is dangerous, and then not do it. I don't think I need the government to "protect" me. They really have a lot to do, just to run the country, and ( in my opinion ) they aren't doing great. I don't need to cite any examples, do I?
It is kind of like putting a traffic cone in front of a truck parked on the side of the highway....If I am not able to see the big truck, what makes anyone think I will see the little cone? I'll be honest, I'll notice the truck WAY before I see the cone. Another fine example is printing "HOT CONTENTS" on a McDonald's coffee cup. The minute I pick it up, I will know it is hot, and that is before I've had a chance to read the GD cup.
I'm building a garage this summer, I think I'll install one GFI, in one box, and call for the inspector. When he leaves, I'll finish the job with plain, every day receptacles. I really doubt that he will come back.
JBP
.
It is kind of like putting a traffic cone in front of a truck parked on the side of the highway....If I am not able to see the big truck, what makes anyone think I will see the little cone? I'll be honest, I'll notice the truck WAY before I see the cone. Another fine example is printing "HOT CONTENTS" on a McDonald's coffee cup. The minute I pick it up, I will know it is hot, and that is before I've had a chance to read the GD cup.
I'm building a garage this summer, I think I'll install one GFI, in one box, and call for the inspector. When he leaves, I'll finish the job with plain, every day receptacles. I really doubt that he will come back.
JBP
.
logical
Well-known member
Sometimes the government gets it right, buy some cheap insurance in the form of a few GFCI outlets, one for the first box in each circuit.
Rkbuell
Well-known member
Gfci tripped when refrigerator start/run capacitor shorted and melted, most likely saved a fire or least wires before circuit breaker would have tripped. I'm retired now, but when working as electrician on Navy base, we could only daisie chain two outlets down stream from a gfci outlet.
James-W
Well-known member
When I built my garage I asked about it and I was told that garage outlets need to be protected by GFCI but you can "daisy chain" them.
James-W
Well-known member
It is your garage and you can wire it the way you want. But I fail to see the logic behind not following the code.
VictorBravo
Well-known member
In 2011, not only was I required to have all 120V circuits GFI protected, but I needed child-proof outlets, too.
I guess it's because of the screwdrivers.
But my 50 amp 240 outlet at floor level was just fine without any such protections....
BTW, I'm a fan of modern GFI tech anyway.
I guess it's because of the screwdrivers.
But my 50 amp 240 outlet at floor level was just fine without any such protections....
BTW, I'm a fan of modern GFI tech anyway.
harleybuilder
Well-known member
Not required in IL (IL as a state has not adopted NEC ) unless it is required by local AHJ. My area has no requirement.
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Individual states can have slightly different codes but generally speaking they're all the same. We have to go by the National Electrical Code. Every 120 volt, 15 or 20 amp receptacle that is located outside, at grade level (including inside your garage or shop on a concrete floor), or within 6' of any sink basin has to be GFCI protected. Overhead door opener receptacles in the ceiling are actually supposed to be protected as well.
Assuming your shop is on grade level then the wire should leave panel and go to the first receptacle in line, which will be the GFCI, and will connect on the line side. The next wire will connect to the load side and go to the next receptacle in line, then on and on. The GFCI protects itself but also all the ones after it, assuming everything is wired correctly.
Assuming your shop is on grade level then the wire should leave panel and go to the first receptacle in line, which will be the GFCI, and will connect on the line side. The next wire will connect to the load side and go to the next receptacle in line, then on and on. The GFCI protects itself but also all the ones after it, assuming everything is wired correctly.
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
GFCI does have it's good points and it'd bad ones. A while back I was pressure washing some equipment off withe electric pressure washer and the washer quit. The guy working with me had left the other drop cord laying outside and the end of it was laying in a puddle of water. This was the first time I'd actually seen a GFCI work as it should.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
In a few years they will be required everywhere, along with refrigerators on gfci. Gotta love new code changes
I call AFCI's snake oil, never have done what they claimed, but if the NEC requires them, still have to install them, like it or not, the requirements will be expanded....
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
This is a case where it would have been better to either clarify what you know, or not post at all.
Neither of these statements is correct. There is absolutely NO reference to "dampness" in the code for GFIs, nor is there any reference to concrete floors. There are only specific locations where they are required.
Also, the exception for large appliances was removed quite a while ago.
Speedy Petey
Well-known member
I'm sorry, and I know this sounds insulting, but this has GOT to be one of the stupidest arguments I hear. Honestly.
I hear the same argument for non-complaint installations that folks still think is safe.
All it takes is one problem and you could very easily get dead, or have a house burn down. The whole "Nothing bad has happened yet" is simply absurd.
Codes are in place for a reason. Sure, some, like AFCIs, are put in place prematurely, but things like GFIs have a track record of added safety and are required due to a history of injuries and deaths.
Fishplate
Well-known member
Don't they list wet locations, though? I recall there is an official definition of wet as opposed to damp...
justsam
Well-known member
All these great responses and we have no idea even what country the OP is in.
Of course we can be US centric and ASSUME USA.
Of course we can be US centric and ASSUME USA.