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Strange night in the garage

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junkyardjeff

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Dayton Ohio
It was worse then a typical monday last night in the garage,besides taking much longer to get done what I wanted to do I could not get the torch to light and the kerosene heater did not want to fire up right too. I needed to heat up a jamb nut on a piece of linkage and the map gas torch would not fire,I thought the sparker was bad so in the house I go to get a lighter and could barely get it to burn and when I did it had a funky flame. I thought I might have been low on gas so on went the propane bottle and the same thing and most of the time it blew out the lighter when trying to light it,I got fed up and went in the house for awhile and when I got back the torch would fire up with both bottles and the heater seemed to start working better,it seemed like something was in the air causing nothing to fire up and never happened before.
 
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coyote54

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There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ... The Twilight Zone.
 
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turbozombie

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Sounds like oxygen deficiency to me. Worst part about a situation like that is mental capacity is reduced so you can't even tell something is going wrong.

A guy I work with almost died from CO2 because of that.
 
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Dennis Leigh Henry

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A_Pmech said:
I was thinking that as well.
Click to expand...

Ditto the O2 concerns..need Oxygen for combustion. How tight is the garage / insulation? If there is no "incoming" fresh air in a situation where combustion has been going on for a while Carbon Monoxide poisoning is also a concern (do you have a CO alarm in that space?)
 
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G McKay

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It sounds like all you would have had to do was open the garage door for about a minute or two- then close it back up. That's all it takes to replenish the garage with fresh air.

:dunno:
 
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wrench409

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Over here....
turbozombie said:
Sounds like oxygen deficiency to me. Worst part about a situation like that is mental capacity is reduced so you can't even tell something is going wrong.

A guy I work with almost died from CO2 because of that.
Click to expand...

OMG.....several people I work with are in danger!

:bounce:

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58Yeoman

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coyote54 said:
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ... The Twilight Zone.
Click to expand...

I always liked Marilyn McCoo's singing. She has a nice voice.
 
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jkwilson

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Depending on the source of your gas, both could have significant butane content which is hard to light when it is cold.
 
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J

junkyardjeff

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I thought about lack of oxygen but the garage is not that tight or so I think,it has a new big door that is sealed good put the side entry door is sloopy and can see light around most of it. It was around 20 degrees outside but never had issues with lighting the torch before and I do like the twilight zone analogy.
 
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FullRaceMerc

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The symptoms sure sound like the oxygen deprivation situation I got into once when I was young & stupid. Long boring personal story below.

I worked for a restaurant service company. We normally used oxy/acetylene torches to silver solder the joints. MAPP was the back-up.

I was soldering in a walk-in on a new build when my regulator gave it up. It was a busy place with a lot of guys working all over & I was in the box with the door closed. It was at the end of a long day. I was almost done. I didn't want to take the time to go to the supply house & replace the problem.

I grabbed the MAPP torch, with an extra bottle of gas since the first felt low. Within a few minutes the torch was burning weak. I thought the low tank was out so I swapped it. The new tank was a little better, but it wasn't long before solder wouldn't flow. I tried the flame directly on the solder & it still wouldn't melt. I couldn't understand what was going on. I was so tired, just wanted to finish & go home. I finally gave up & was going to go buy a new regulator.

When I opened the door & felt the rush of good fresh air, I realized what was going on. And how stupid I was for working in the box with the door closed. It scared me good. It still scares me 30 years later. I propped the door open, turned a fan towards the box, & was done in 10 minutes. My guess was with the oxy/acetylene setup it provided its own oxygen, so we had become accustomed to not worrying about fresh air. Never again.



Anyway, when I read your post, it instantly reminded me of this. If something doesn't burn right, I think fresh air supply is always the first thing to check. Is there a water heater in there? Anything else that might be robbing air or dumping exhaust? Inert gas leaking? Car left running a little long? It sure sounds like something is up. Normally you see a signpost up ahead for the Twilight Zone.
 
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rburke65

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I began to think of the lack of oxygen the more I read this. Never experienced this but hopefully it will be in my subconscious for future use. Thanks everyone.
 
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J

junkyardjeff

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I felt fine and did not have any problems breathing but the more I think about it I did not crack open the big door like I normally do and the heater had been running for about a hour,I have done that many times in the past but there is a first time for everything so I am going to make sure I crack open the big door before the heater goes on.
 
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2gslse

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I did the same thing a few years ago running a heater and working on wires on the car when several lighters wouldnt work, the phone rang and I went outside to talk/take a leak I was playing with the lighter when I realized it was workng every time it dawned on me what happened and I called it a night.
 
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FullRaceMerc

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Yeah, I'd been at it awhile before I began to feel tired. The flame was wrong before I felt anything. Funny thing too, I didn't feel odd, sick, or out of breath, just worn out & frustrated that the equipment was keeping me from finishing. I thought it was just from the long tough day until I opened the door. That's when I recognized I needed air, but not before. If I didn't have to leave to get the new regulator, who knows how it would have gone. :dunno:

I currently use a MAPP torch pretty regularly & set up fans to deliver fresh air when working in poorly ventilated areas. Some houses have bad ventilation underneath & can have stale air even before lighting a torch.

It sounds like you probably have it figured out. Good that you did so without any serious incident.
 
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Zebedeewesty

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Wales, UK
I've had the same thing happen in my camper.
Woke up in the morning and tried to light the hob but my lighter wouldn't fire up. Tried a box of matches and they wouldn't stay lit once struck. Opened the door and tried again only for everything to work as it should. I sleep with a window open a slight bit now.
 
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junkyardjeff

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Dayton Ohio
I did some thinking and my garage has a small vent in the rear towards the top and I am going to look for a small fan to bring air in when I am running the heater,I would like to find one that is reversable so it can draw the hot air out in the warmer months but have no clue where to look for one.
 
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ford guy

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Virginia Beach, VA
junkyardjeff said:
I did some thinking and my garage has a small vent in the rear towards the top and I am going to look for a small fan to bring air in when I am running the heater,I would like to find one that is reversable so it can draw the hot air out in the warmer months but have no clue where to look for one.
Click to expand...

Try a bathroom vent fan. They are cheap enough & can be wired to a timer or wired to come on when you turn on the shop lights.

I installed one in my shop over 5 years ago & it is still going strong.

Bob
 
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Ben Buck

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I was going to blame it on the full moon we had recently.

Jeff, you might try looking around Mendelsons downtown for the fan?
 
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Tislane

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If it is an unvented heater you need air going both into and out of the building. Air change is required.

If it is a vented heater you need combustion air replacement.

A potentially deadly situation if ignored.
 
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FullRaceMerc

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How about a direct vent heater? What they used to call a "Vent thru the wall" heater. They mount on a wall. The vent pipe thru the wall handles both exhaust gasses & the intake for combustion air. The firebox is sealed so no room air is used for the fire. Safer when flammable chemicals are used in a garage as well. Thinking about, I don't know why we don't see more of these in garages.

A quick search found a 14,000 BTU version at HD. That one is natural gas, but can be converted to LP with a kit.
 
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Dennis Leigh Henry

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Tislane said:
If it is an unvented heater you need air going both into and out of the building. Air change is required.

If it is a vented heater you need combustion air replacement.

A potentially deadly situation if ignored.
Click to expand...

And one way to "protect" for the last sentence is invest in a CO detector. Their fairly cheap ($30) these days...
 
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