Good pricing? Alternatively, difficult work?

[cdaiscool]

Garage Heating via Contractor: Good pricing? Alternatively, difficult work?

Looking to put a heater in my garage, and the contractor I'm going through seems to be a bit high in pricing. Looking for whether this is high, if myself and my coworkers are just cheap, and what the difficulty if I were to do it myself would be.

Garage is a 2.5 stall garage, don't have direct measurements. Mostly insulated except for half the back wall (unsure, previous owner or builder finished the wall) and garage door though that'll change.

I was looking at the Modine 45k, contractor said that'd be way too big, recommends the 30k btu unit. Did no measurements, walked in the garage and said "a 30k btu would work perfect in here".

Here's the quotes:

Reznor unit heater
• UDAP30- 30,000 BTUH unit heater
• Unit to hang from ceiling and vent our of garage wall
• 4" bvent with storm cap
• Install gas line from main.
• Electrical circuit to unit
• Thermostat to hang next to garage door opener.
• 10 year heat exchanger warranty
• 1 year parts warranty
• 1 year labor warranty
Contract Price $2,360.00

Alternatives:
Modine HD30A
30,000 BTUH unit heater
10 year heat exchanger warranty
Contract price $2,280.00

Cozy direct vent wall heater
• CDV335B- 33,000 BTUH wall heater
• Millivolt burner
• Conentric vent through garage wall
• Unit to hang on side wall of garage
• Gas line to unit from main
• 10 year labor heat exchanger
• 1 year parts warranty
• 1 year labor warranty
Contract Price $2,800.00

Blower kit option
• DVB2- thermostatically controlled blower.
• 115V circuit to unit
Contract Price $ 350.00

If I were to buy the Hot Dawg myself, how difficult would it be? Gas and electric panel are on the same wall as the heater will be next to, and the drywall I put up was never mudded in so it can be unscrewed and re-installed. I have ran gas line once, at a friends when she was relocating the dryer. I ran all my own electrical, helped my dad a number of years ago and ran a brand new 20-amp circuit in my garage around Thanksgiving. Have all sorts of tools, and an excuse to buy more is just fine with me. I typically just work on cars, though, and that's a hobby. I do IT during the day.

Opinions? Should I go with them? Are they pricing themselves out?

 

[mygarageone]

The pricing you got is fair .

 

[sms1974]

looks cheaper than I would have quoted it...

 

[cdaiscool]

Awesome. Any ideas on how difficult this would be for a guy that doesn't have much gas or siding experience?

May go with him after all then if it turns out it's pretty difficult.

 

[CNGsaves]

Post up some pictures of area you intend to install hanging heater.

Describe WHERE the gas line source would come from. Black pipe steel is easy to do for NG if already in the wall or nearby, but need to test for leaks and know what you're doing.

Those heaters quoted (Reznor & Modine) are excellent quality (actually what I'd consider the top 2 brands). Depending on how cold your climate is in Michigan, and actual insulation, not sure whether 30K Btu is enough or next step of 45K Btu. Perform the website calc of recommended heater based on actual measurements, heat losses (windows, man door, garage door, etc).

By comparison, a very affordable 50K Btu hanging heater is Big Maxx (by Mr Heater) which is sold at Northern Tool for around $400 net (ie $450 less coupon).
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577749_200577749
However, this low end brand does not offer a 30K Btu model. This heater would likely be oversized for your space. So consider this FYI.

It's your call whether you can handle the installation, and whether quote over $2K is appropriate for your area. Given the fact quote is "turn key" it's not all that unreasonable.

 

[cdaiscool]

Leaving work in a few, so I'll get the pictures and try drawing it out as well. We'll see what happens.

The water heater and furnace is behind a wall on the other side of the garage, the meter is on the other side of the wall of where the furnace will hang. I haven't a clue if over $2k is reasonable for the area, I know 3 guys I work with were blown away by how high it was, and they've had contractor work done I believe. No suggestions from them, however.

I can ultimately probably do it, but it's one of those things. If I do it, it won't look nearly as good, I haven't a clue if it'll be done right until the inspector checks it out, etc.

Cold in this climate is, well, it was -8 deg. F when I went to drive to work last week. Right now it's in the 20's I believe, and by the end of the week it should be around zero. It was 40 deg. Saturday and Sunday.

 

[404]

Best efficiency comes from a small unit that runs longer. During the off periods the unit has standby heat losses that reduce overall efficiency.

 

[404]

Can there be a zone from the existing furnace behind that wall?

 

[CNGsaves]

Can there be a zone from the existing furnace behind that wall?

^ ^ ^ OP . . . Do NOT consider this. Not good idea to mix heating system from house with garage. Risk of allowing fumes/carbon dioxide from garage to enter the house.

OP . . . cost of 30K Btu heater Modine Hot Dawg is $528 (see below) so there's quite a bit of profit since your quotes are around $2400 - - - - - really all depends how much work to get NG supply and electrical.

http://www.hvacbrain.com/Modine-HD-30-p/hd 30-aluminum.htm?gclid=CPDsi_-b1sMCFQeNaQodop4A9g

 

[BillK]

^ ^ ^ OP . . . Do NOT consider this. Not good idea to .........

Actually illegal according to any codes I know.

 

[cdaiscool]

As for the furnace to heat my garage, I'm not even considering that. I play car mechanic, and last thing I need is fumes from MAP gas/car testing/who-knows-what risking entrance to my house. However, according to a couple guys at work, the subdivision I'm in has at least 2-3 garages heated this way, one is in the "model home" and the builder turned the garage into an office and ran the furnace ducting to it. He uses it, but strictly for parking in. It works for him, but not for me.

Now time for pictures. Gas line is at the corner of the back 14' wall and 25'10" wall, on the 14' wall side. In the corner. Please excuse the mess, I am not known to be clean, but I know where everything I need is.

Heater will go in front of the overhang, next to the No Parking sign:

 

[cdaiscool]

You can actually see the gas line running across the back of the garage in the last 2 pictures.

Not difficult access in any stretch of the imagination.

 

[CNGsaves]

With your measurements and finished walls with insulation, I'd say go with 30K Btu like you're getting quoted. The $528 for Modine Hot Dawg is a great price.

Have you considered installing hanging heater in such a place that it can vent horizontally ??? Where would you want it to go ??

 

[cdaiscool]

If I stick the heater near the sign, where the ceiling drops down, the vent can go out there. Maybe 2 feet of vent pipe?

 

[cdaiscool]

With it being bedrooms above, how loud will the thing be? Will there be a notable sound difference if I were to choose Reznor over Modine?

Last thing I need is my roommates complaining my heater wakes them up at 3 am.

I like their rent money.

 

[cdaiscool]

And it's going to be cold this week.

http://www.mlive.com/weather/index.ssf/2015/02/arctic_blasts_coming_near_reco.html

Possibly -20, before wind chill!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I want to say the last time I priced a modine heater through the supply house my cost was close to $600.00,if you can get one for $538.00 Id jump on it.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

double post

 

[cdaiscool]

Been told the Reznor is quieter than the Modine. Need to make sure that both the sound and vibration is minimal.

Found the Reznor for $1,000 with the vent kit:
https://djsonline.com/reznor_UDAP_Unit_Heaters.htm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reznor-UDAP...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e67bda4d8

Otherwise:
Used:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Reznor-UD...014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4613c60426

Found another site that listed the Reznor around $618 iirc, but now I can't find it. Only remember it was a Shurwai company or something. So these are what I have for options at this point.

Or are the Modine units as quiet as Reznor?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

let me find out tomorrow what kind of prices I can get on each.

 

[CNGsaves]

I've heard that too regarding Reznor being one of most quiet hanging heaters, which is appropriate as I'd rank them as top brand. Sterling is another very high quality brand that HVAC companies may be able to get for you.

Here's new Reznor 30K Btu hanging heater for $900

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reznor-UDAP...ented-Gas-Fired-Unit-Heater-NEW-/390521389820

OP . . . with help of your dad and a buddy, the horizontal install would be straight forward. If you haven't seen this Ron Hazelton video of hanging heater install, it's very informative.
http://www.ronhazelton.com/projects/how_to_install_a_gas_heater_for_a_garage

I'd make sure ceiling above the heater has good insulation to act also as sound barrier if you've got bedrooms above the garage. Maybe mount 2 sticks of Uni-strut to ceiling for your 1 inch gap since you have low 8 ft ceiling, and make it easy for mounting heater.

 

[404]

A zone for the existing furnace would transfer heat into the garage through a seperate heat exchanger, obviously. There is no need to mix garage air with house air. Carry on...

 

[cdaiscool]

A zone for the existing furnace would transfer heat into the garage through a seperate heat exchanger, obviously. There is no need to mix garage air with house air. Carry on...

I've never dealt with different zones. I thought it was just a vent that had a gate on it that something opened and closed.

I think I still want to go a different furnace for the garage, for several purposes. The biggest is so I can have different systems running best for their areas. Furnace for the house, mounted heater for the garage. Keep 'em separate.

 

[danski0224]

Prices- fair.

Note- type B vent is not manufacturer or UL approved for horizontal (wall) venting.

 

[cdaiscool]

Prices- fair.

Note- type B vent is not manufacturer or UL approved for horizontal (wall) venting.

If I do the work myself I'll do it per manufacturer.

http://www.rezspec.com/files/I-UD-V-PV (Version D.1) PN195675R12 smallest.pdf

If it's hired out I'll make sure a permit is pulled.

If it's not approved for horizontal then I won't go with it. Thanks for the tip!

 

[danski0224]

If I do the work myself I'll do it per manufacturer.

http://www.rezspec.com/files/I-UD-V-PV (Version D.1) PN195675R12 smallest.pdf

If it's hired out I'll make sure a permit is pulled.

If it's not approved for horizontal then I won't go with it. Thanks for the tip!

Ah, interesting, as always, the double standards.

Make the contractor pull a permit, complain about the cost...

Anyways, the issue stems from venting material standards, not necessarily the unit heater manufacturer.

It is doubtful that you will find a residential unit heater certified for use with a Category I (Type B vent) horizontal vent termination. This change became effective 7/1/2011.

Attached documents for reference.

 

[cdaiscool]

Ah, interesting, as always, the double standards.

Make the contractor pull a permit, complain about the cost...

Anyways, the issue stems from venting material standards, not necessarily the unit heater manufacturer.

It is doubtful that you will find a residential unit heater certified for use with a Category I (Type B vent) horizontal vent termination. This change became effective 7/1/2011.

Attached documents for reference.

Double-standard? Huh. I would have thought the double standard would be if I weren't pulling them if I do the work (which I will) vs. making him pull it.

According to my township's web site:

Building Department
Print Email
Last Updated on Tuesday, 02 December 2014 15:43
Hard-HatIf you are planning on building a deck, porch, replace your hot water tank, furnace or other home improvement a permit is needed. A building permit must be reviewed - please allow a minimum of 5 - 10 business days from the time you submit your application to the time you can pick it up and start work. Remember if you, the homeowner, are having work performed by a contractor the contractor should pull the permit. This is a safe guard for you, the homeowner. It doesn't cost any more money nor take any more time for the contractor to do so.

So unsure where there's a double-standard here.

Also, I will obviously need to talk with the contractor about using B-vent pipe for the vent, since if it's not up to code then I'm not interested in using it.

 

[danski0224]

Most people that DIY do not pull permits.

You did not specifically state that a permit would be pulled if you did it, while stating that a permit would be pulled if a contractor did it.

So, the easy assumption is...

Good for you if you plan to pull a permit.

I'll leave out my general opinion on them.

 

[cdaiscool]

Most people that DIY do not pull permits.

You did not specifically state that a permit would be pulled if you did it, while stating that a permit would be pulled if a contractor did it.

So, the easy assumption is...

Good for you if you plan to pull a permit.

I'll leave out my general opinion on them.

My apologies. I thought I'd made it clear that I was going to pull a permit.

 

[Nakashige]

Modine hot dawg 45000 propane installed with tank and filled is 1650.00 in Mass

 

[brewchief]

The company I work for is only a county or two away(and no we don't go to Ann Arbor) and the pricing is right in line with what we would charge.

 

[CNGsaves]

Here's another great price on quality hanging heater . . . .
. . . . . Sterling Garage Guy (GG) . . . 30K Btu for $555

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/heaters4.shtml

 

[cdaiscool]

Found that freaking site I was talking about earlier.

http://shurailhvac.com/products/Reznor-30,000btu.html

Got another contractor coming out Friday to check out the space. If this one's a non-starter as well due to the price, then I'll start the permitting process next week for the heater and ordering this thing up.

:woot: looking forward to heat in the garage

 

[mygarageone]

Found that freaking site I was talking about earlier.

http://shurailhvac.com/products/Reznor-30,000btu.html

Got another contractor coming out Friday to check out the space. If this one's a non-starter as well due to the price, then I'll start the permitting process next week for the heater and ordering this thing up.

:woot: looking forward to heat in the garage

If you get a better price than the first one , I would wonder. In fact I would want a bunch of references . Being the lowest is generaly a sign and not a good one.

The original price you got was more than a fair price .

I am curious , what do you do for a living ?

 

[cdaiscool]

If you get a better price than the first one , I would wonder. In fact I would want a bunch of references . Being the lowest is generaly a sign and not a good one.

The original price you got was more than a fair price .

I am curious , what do you do for a living ?

For a living I'm in IT at a Big 10 university. Specifically I do wi-fi and wired networking. However I enjoy working with my hands, so I do pretty much all my own home work. But being gas, I want to be cautious.

 

[mygarageone]

For a living I'm in IT at a Big 10 university. Specifically I do wi-fi and wired networking. However I enjoy working with my hands, so I do pretty much all my own home work. But being gas, I want to be cautious.

Ya know , I have a few clients who do there own installs and ask me to come check and do the start up because they want to make sure it's good.

I charge a flat fee for this and they get peace of mind and I still get involved.
As sooner or later they need me for service work .

For a general inspection and start up I charge $250.00 it works for them and me.

By the way your heating inspector will only look for code violations , nothing else.
But they may require a test on your gas line ?

 

[cdaiscool]

Ya know , I have a few clients who do there own installs and ask me to come check and do the start up because they want to make sure it's good.

I charge a flat fee for this and they get peace of mind and I still get involved.
As sooner or later they need me for service work .

For a general inspection and start up I charge $250.00 it works for them and me.

By the way your heating inspector will only look for code violations , nothing else.
But they may require a test on your gas line ?

I would be perfectly fine with doing a $250 inspection and start up. I even told the first guy I usually do my own stuff, but the gas line is making me hesitate. I would have thought he'd have offered that as an alternate solution.

If b-vent pipe isn't code for horizontal runs, then that means the inspector will catch a code violation. I'm not sure what else I'd be asking him to look for...

 

[6768rogues]

I own a few hanging heaters and the Reznor is my favorite.
I would check to see that the vent going through the wall is the proper material.
I would also check to see what type of gas line is being used. I have black iron in my garage but newer flexible materials are available. I would go with black iron for damage resistance.
Is the contractor going to get the electrical inspection at his expense? We have separate electrical inspectors and work done under a permit requires that inspection.
I did mine myself but I think the price is reasonable. You need a heater, hanging materials, piping, electrical stuff, thermostat and wire, etc. Then you have to figure out how to get the heater up to where it hangs. As I said, I did mine but the last one was 20 years ago. Now at my age I would hire it out.

 

[cdaiscool]

Guy #2 just left. He asked a bit about the other quote, asked me why I chose the unit I'd chosen. He said that ultimately, he thinks a 45k unit is a better deal because it'll heat up faster since I only hobby work out there, and won't keep it at a constant temp all the time. So he's quoting that out.

He also said he thinks the other guy was high, even with the adjusted price, but wants to run numbers before going too much further. He also mentioned a possible code violation (putting the heater in the work area) as it would be too close to the ground. I said let's put it in the 98" area, and he was okay with that.

He's not licensed for electrical, said it's gotta be on its own circuit, so he asked if since I already did the electrical once, could I throw an individual circuit up to the spot for him? Told him sure. So now I get to get a 15-amp circuit put in for the heater.

Am I able to have anything else whatsoever on it, such as garage door? Or is the 2-amp Reznor the only thing that can live on the circuit?

 

[Jackfre]

Rinnai ES38. Check it out. Nothing is as quiet