JH Williams USA Chrome sockets vs Snap-On chrome sockets

[RedneckWelder]

Those? They're not even stamped, broached or plated yet, how are they Williams?

It is true they are not broached and finished but you can see the thicker beams, and furthermore the Williams have a distinctive area where the beam changes profile and becomes the head. You can see both of these features in the photo below

I have a set of Cat wrenches (relabled Williams Supercombos) at work so the beam is very distinctive to me.

Personally I love the Williams style. Very comfortable wrench to use.

 

[Wamsutta]

If there's something different about the Williams sockets, it's got to be very minor unless they're made in a totally different facility. Something as major as a different heat treating process would interrupt operations too much I would think. It would cost them more money to make them different than what they'd be saving from cheaper materials or a cheaper process.

 

[bobemmerich]

If there's something different about the Williams sockets, it's got to be very minor unless they're made in a totally different facility. Something as major as a different heat treating process would interrupt operations too much I would think. It would cost them more money to make them different than what they'd be saving from cheaper materials or a cheaper process.

^^This^^
Name and minor trim. Same process. Unless they ARE made in a specific area or building site.

 

[DieselSaves]

If there's something different about the Williams sockets, it's got to be very minor unless they're made in a totally different facility. Something as major as a different heat treating process would interrupt operations too much I would think. It would cost them more money to make them different than what they'd be saving from cheaper materials or a cheaper process.

All the Williams sets I'm seeing listed new are in the same style packaging and with the same ratchets as the Blue Point sets that are not made on the same production lines as the Snap On ones. I'd buy a Williams 1/4 set in a heartbeat if it was made on the same floor as the Snappy stuff, even in the same building, but all the BP sets like the ones I am seeing with Williams stamped on them are COO Taiwan.

If I missed a link to US made Williams in this thread then disregard this. If not, I would really like to see where I can buy SO sockets rebadged as Williams.

Both of the following links are for 27 pc sets. The BP set is listed as Taiwan. For that money, I'd go GearWrench and get a bigger set, maybe for less.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O18PLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=682199&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[ADSR]

All the Williams sets I'm seeing listed new are in the same style packaging and with the same ratchets as the Blue Point sets that are not made on the same production lines as the Snap On ones. I'd buy a Williams 1/4 set in a heartbeat if it was made on the same floor as the Snappy stuff, even in the same building, but all the BP sets like the ones I am seeing with Williams stamped on them are COO Taiwan.

If I missed a link to US made Williams in this thread then disregard this. If not, I would really like to see where I can buy SO sockets rebadged as Williams.

Both of the following links are for 27 pc sets. The BP set is listed as Taiwan. For that money, I'd go GearWrench and get a bigger set, maybe for less.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O18PLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=682199&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Take your pick.

http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Metric-Socket-Sets_c_2857.html

 

[ADSR]

1/4

http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Metric-Socket-Sets_c_2854.html

 

[DieselSaves]

Take your pick.

http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Metric-Socket-Sets_c_2857.html

Good stuff there but the prices are within spitting distance of Snap On sale/promo prices for the American stuff. I see the Taiwanese stuff is mixed in and some of the US sets listed as out of stock. Splitting hairs, maybe.

I'm focusing on the 1/4 drive stuff because I really want the Snappy set but won't spend even $400+ for it on sale.

 

[Skin]

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but in this How It's Made episode you can see this factory is making both Williams and Snap-on wrenches.

Those are clearly Williams Supercombos on the wrench polishing machine, but they show Snap-on wrenches later in the video.

I'm not saying every SO and Williams wrench come out of the same factory, but this video sure seems to indicate that there's at least one factory that makes both.

Hey, I could be wrong but i thought i read Williams has a few dedicated facilities left and wrenches was one of the products they still produced. The video also showcases different wrench styles. My guess is its either footage from multiple factories or, at the very least, footage from multiple days.

 

[Wamsutta]

All the Williams sets I'm seeing listed new are in the same style packaging and with the same ratchets as the Blue Point sets that are not made on the same production lines as the Snap On ones. I'd buy a Williams 1/4 set in a heartbeat if it was made on the same floor as the Snappy stuff, even in the same building, but all the BP sets like the ones I am seeing with Williams stamped on them are COO Taiwan.

If I missed a link to US made Williams in this thread then disregard this. If not, I would really like to see where I can buy SO sockets rebadged as Williams.

Both of the following links are for 27 pc sets. The BP set is listed as Taiwan. For that money, I'd go GearWrench and get a bigger set, maybe for less.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O18PLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=682199&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Same socket set. Made in same facility. Different markings.

http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Willi...ools-3-8-Inch-Drive-Chrome-Metric-Socket-Sets

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=674837&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[rjwilliams]

I stated this in a past Williams/SnapOn thread. As someone who has a good amount of both, its my personal opinion that snap on is of higher quality than Williams. A recent example that comes to mind is when I bought a 3" extension to complete my 3/8 set and the tip to the extension wouldnt even fit in a socket because the chrome was too thick. Poor quality control.

 

[ADSR]

Hey, I could be wrong but i thought i read Williams has a few dedicated facilities left and wrenches was one of the products they still produced. The video also showcases different wrench styles. My guess is its either footage from multiple factories or, at the very least, footage from multiple days.

I saw that too. But the quality of the video is garbage. Slo-Mo wouldn't help it. If you watch them making the sockets at the SO factory, you can see one roll out a Williams plain as day.

 

[ADSR]

Good stuff there but the prices are within spitting distance of Snap On sale/promo prices for the American stuff. I see the Taiwanese stuff is mixed in and some of the US sets listed as out of stock. Splitting hairs, maybe.

I'm focusing on the 1/4 drive stuff because I really want the Snappy set but won't spend even $400+ for it on sale.

Than just buy the sockets for under 100 bucks, and buy a dual 80 SO ratchet. I'm sure you'll save 200 bucks.

 

[RV8guy]

Are the Williams deep sockets broached as deep as the Snap-On sockets?

I'm disappointed with the GearWrench deep sockets and I'm looking to replace them.

 

[Wamsutta]

I stated this in a past Williams/SnapOn thread. As someone who has a good amount of both, its my personal opinion that snap on is of higher quality than Williams. A recent example that comes to mind is when I bought a 3" extension to complete my 3/8 set and the tip to the extension wouldnt even fit in a socket because the chrome was too thick. Poor quality control.

What's the part number of said extension?

 

[Adam.C]

I don't let people take pictures in my home machine shop. Can't imagine Snap On would permit a detailed video of their equipment and process. Especially when competition is so fierce. I recently watched a video clip of Snap On's CEO. He said something about the american workers being heroes in the fight against foreign competition. Can't think a guy who would say that in an interview would show how he makes his signature product.

 

[BJ42LX]

The "How It's Made Episode" about sockets is filmed in the Snap-On plant, and you can watch Williams get rolled into a socket, so there's that.

You are very perceptive. The "Wi" is only the screen only for an instant, but it's there no doubt.

 

[ADSR]

You are very perceptive. The "Wi" is only the screen only for an instant, but it's there no doubt.

Awesome!!! Too bad the video is such garbage quality!!

 

[dsp1]

I don't let people take pictures in my home machine shop. Can't imagine Snap On would permit a detailed video of their equipment and process. Especially when competition is so fierce. I recently watched a video clip of Snap On's CEO. He said something about the american workers being heroes in the fight against foreign competition. Can't think a guy who would say that in an interview would show how he makes his signature product.

So I guess you haven't seen the videos on how Snap-On makes their sockets, wrenches and screwdrivers?

 

[sonvolt]

Snap on doesn't add the special sauce to the Williams tool line

 

[ADSR]

Snap on doesn't add the special sauce to the Williams tool line

hahahahha!!!!!!

 

[SMKS]

Snap on doesn't add the special sauce to the Williams tool line

The secret ingredient in Snap-on tools is love.

 

[neophyte]

The secret ingredient in Snap-on tools is love.

Is that how the pearl grips are made?

 

[sk farmer]

By page 2 this will be "My Snap-On dealer/rep said..." claiming that the Snap-On sockets get an extra coat of chrome or polishing (that and the stamp rolled in makes them cost 4x as much).

Then there will be a link to an old thread with a claim that two completely different 15+ year old wrenches (allegedly) not being made of the same metal is proof that Snap-On and Williams tools are in no way the same.

The internet metallurgists will chime in about the steel used, which might derail into an argument on Chinese steel, but undoubtedly ends with someone claiming they're not the same. But there will be an offer that if you buy and mail a member some Williams and Snap-On sockets for testing, they'd post the results.

And then there's a good chance we'll get the, "Just buy Snap-On for the ease of warranty" (for all those exploding sockets), or "Why not just buy SK/Wright/Proto/Gearwrench/HF/Garage Sale Craftsman instead?"

Seen this episode before...

Personal experience:
Bought Snap-On sockets with my student discount, bought some newer Williams USA to fill in my old pre-Snappy Williams set, saw no difference between the two besides the stamp. Sold the Snappy sockets, replaced with Williams (one set which came with a Snap-On socket on the rail) and filled in the odd gaps that Williams doesn't offer with Snap-On.

Years down the line, still no difference in wear, and can't tell the difference in the sockets besides the stamp.

The "How It's Made Episode" about sockets is filmed in the Snap-On plant, and you can watch Williams get rolled into a socket, so there's that.

this deserves another quote, it is very well written.

it has been proven time and time again that almost all mfgs. make more than one brand and the only significant difference is brand and price......... and yet every time a certain segment will deny that it is possible. so many people just have no clue.

 

[1950mercury]

Is that how the pearl grips are made?

Haha that was a good one

 

[Adam.C]

You guys are funny. You watch one video showing a few samples of a manufacturing facility and you decide you 100% understand for certain how the items are being made. 100% no doubt. I love it.

Guys, factories don't work that way. That video could be showing operations in seperate buildings, or seperate facilities. Some operations could be Snap On and others Williams. There's no way to tell from that video if Snap On sockets are the same as Williams.

I suspect Williams are excellent sockets. And I don't care if they are identical to Snap On or not. All I'm saying is, that video doesn't provide us with any information that should lead anyone to one conclusion or the other.

 

[ADSR]

There's no way to tell from that video if Snap On sockets are the same as Williams.

It works both ways. There's no way to tell they're not exactly the same either. One thing is for sure, They're at a SO factory and a williams socket rolls out.

We also have a SO industrial dealer as a member here, who stated the only difference is the level of quality on the finish.

 

[lilflippy]

It works both ways. There's no way to tell they're not exactly the same either. One thing is for sure, They're at a SO factory and a williams socket rolls out.

We also have a SO industrial dealer as a member here, who stated the only difference is the level of quality on the finish.

Got a link to that thread?

 

[ADSR]

Got a link to that thread?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3340720&postcount=21

 

[arz71]

About 10+ years ago, Lowes had a line of Williams that were made in USA and extremely high quality. Now like everything else, it is import stuff where if you are really using it they implode.

Williams today is import with a name on it, kinda like the Craftsman name on made in CHINA. Those pot metals will self-destruct under hard use or 'daily' use. All of the major brands are going that way and keeping the made in USA price tag.

 

[arz71]

I have seen import sockets 'shatter' spewing bits of steel everywhere. The biggest difference in tool steel is flex. Most Snap-On and the rest actually wear out over time, the import steel cracks or shrapnel's all over. Like breaker bars, good USA tool steel will flex not brave enough to put lots of pressure on China steel.

20+ years ago most common manufactures were state side that is not the case anymore.

 

[ADSR]

Williams today is import with a name on it.

We're not talking about import williams. We're talking about USA williams.

 

[lilflippy]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3340720&postcount=21

 

[skiingman]

Several comments here about "the same soft steel" for Williams and Snappy. Is that a dig? I only have wrenches from those brands, no sockets.

 

[Adam.C]

It works both ways. There's no way to tell they're not exactly the same either. One thing is for sure, They're at a SO factory and a williams socket rolls out.

We also have a SO industrial dealer as a member here, who stated the only difference is the level of quality on the finish.

Did you just fall off the turnip truck? Of course the guy who sells Williams is going to say his product is the same as Snap On.

The only way I would accept that these 2 tools were the same is if I saw the engineering for both side by side and every callout was the same and every process spec was the same. No non-destructive testing, or visual inspection could prove these were the same tools. No one should claim otherwise.

This is preposterous thread like so many others here; speculation and misinformation. No offense to anyone here, but I've never seen an internet discussion group with so few facts, and so much certainty.

 

[sk farmer]

It works both ways. There's no way to tell they're not exactly the same either. One thing is for sure, They're at a SO factory and a williams socket rolls out.

We also have a SO industrial dealer as a member here, who stated the only difference is the level of quality on the finish.

jeez, don't confuse people with facts, pictures and reasonable answers. it can't be because the say it can't be.

you may shake their belief in santa claus, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.

 

[JDon99]

Guys, factories don't work that way. That video could be showing operations in seperate buildings, or seperate facilities. Some operations could be Snap On and others Williams. There's no way to tell from that video if Snap On sockets are the same as Williams.

If they were producing their sockets in separate buildings or on completely separate facilities, how would it be possible to be seeing SO sockets mixed into a Williams set?

 

[sk farmer]

If they were producing their sockets in separate buildings or on completely separate facilities, how would it be possible to be seeing SO sockets mixed into a Williams set?

you can't reason with a kool-aid drinker. they are blind to all facts and bits of reasonable information. they need to justify their weekly toll so they can sleep at night. there are not that many of them but you can see them a mile away.

the average guy who uses snap-on (far and away the majority) is not a kool-aid drinker. he knows they have a good product and pays for it. he also know that sometimes there is an equivalent or better product out there. he is not afraid to use it or accept it and understands there is no magic involved. they also understand that not everyone feels the same way they do and are open to other peoples input and opinion.

the kool-aid drinkers? not so much.

 

[Wamsutta]

Same socket set. Made in same facility. Different markings.

http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Willi...ools-3-8-Inch-Drive-Chrome-Metric-Socket-Sets

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=674837&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I made that claim back on Page 3 without a shred of evidence. To my amazement, nobody has disputed that claim.

 

[byoungblood]

this deserves another quote, it is very well written.

it has been proven time and time again that almost all mfgs. make more than one brand and the only significant difference is brand and price......... and yet every time a certain segment will deny that it is possible. so many people just have no clue.

It mainly comes from the people who have gobs of money "invested" in the higher priced option that are so adamant about it. They're also generally the others who also insist that any other brand of tool out there is inferior despite tests to the contrary. In short, they're **** hurt about paying too much money for a set of tools when a less expensive solution of equal quality was available.

With SO, you are paying for the distribution and warranty system. There is a lot of convenience factor built into the price of SO tools. With Williams/Bahco, you don't have that, so the price is correspondingly less.

Setting up a different heat treating and chroming operation in the same facility for what are otherwise identical products would not be cost effective.

 

[Wizzard]

A little ot, but I compared my new (recently warrantied/replaced) SO deep SAE sockets to a set of USA made Craftsmans that I got ~4 years ago and the Craftsman have more metal/reinforcement on them and seem sturdier...fit around the bolt head is the same.