Removing bedrooms for a taller garage?

[rerod]

So I find myself in a four bedroom split level house alone now. Its huge for one person. But being on this bus route saves me so much time and money traveling to work 5 days a week, its hard to imagine giving that up. Sure, the buses go all over the city. But my route has no transfer's and I'm home in 10 minutes. Believe me, there are no bachelor pads on this side of town waiting to have a big garage built next to them. Big, meaning tall, because I'm building a 4x4 van and there's no way it would fit, even now, under a 7' door. I will always own a tall 4x4 and I like doing my own work.

So what I'm thinking, is that I still have at least 10-15 years at my work.. Why not remove two upstairs bedrooms directly above my garage to double the ceiling height.. There's still plenty of living space without the two bedrooms for me and my GF.



The beam and floor would be removed. The only utility still needed in the sofit would be a gas line reroute. I could probably pull it off with know one knowing if I wanted.

Or, I do have a corner lot.. But I just cant justify building a big garage when I already have the space. Resale value might be less after removing two bedrooms. But I would never re coup the money spent on a serious garage in my back yard.

Thanks.

 

[930dreamer]

I wouldn't change the floor plan as the next buyer probably won't like it modified.

 

[rerod]

I wouldn't change the floor plan as the next buyer probably won't like it modified.

Yeah it would turn it from a family house, into a gear head single bedroom house..

Looking closer.. The front upstairs wall sits on a cantilever floor.

 

[AndyA]

Also the floor is bracing the walls. One 16 foot wall needs to be built of heavier stuff than two stacked 8 foot tall walls.

 

[arz71]

On the house, you may be better building a shop building, keeping the floor plan. What running gear you puttin under the front end?

 

[rerod]

Also the floor is bracing the walls. One 16 foot wall needs to be built of heavier stuff than two stacked 8 foot tall walls.

It has 8' concrete basement walls. But yeah. Doubt you can remove the floor without problems.. Especially the cantilever area..

On the house, you may be better building a shop building, keeping the floor plan. What running gear you puttin under the front end?

Yeah your right.. Just hard to justify all this living area I dont need and over $4k in taxes, then building another garage. Who's going to want that? Gear head Dad I guess..

And Id get cold and wet walking through my yard.

D60 ford kingpin, D80 rear

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Lift the house.

 

[rerod]

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=154+Penfro+Dr,+Iowa+City,+IA+52246&output=classic&dg=ntvo

that's my x doing the only thing she was good at.

 

[Zeke]

Do it. Just make sure you can put it back because 4 bdrms will always appraise much higher than 2. As far as the side wall structure is concerned, you don't need all the height anyway. Put some kind of trusses high in the former bedrooms to tie the walls. Leave your self some storage up there.

(you did mentioned GF )

 

[rerod]

Do it. Just make sure you can put it back because 4 bdrms will always appraise much higher than 2. As far as the side wall structure is concerned, you don't need all the height anyway. Put some kind of trusses high in the former bedrooms to tie the walls. Leave your self some storage up there.

(you did mentioned GF )

Yeah, a loft around the truck lift area.. Just leave the original floor there..

I really would consider it.. But the cantilever front wall... fubar's everything!

Yes GF its a no fault state.. thank god

I don't really care what it appraises at. I just don't want my taxes to more than double again!

 

[torched]

Not sure how serious you really are but I would consider ripping out the concrete and removing the grade to get the height needed. Removing the above structure is going to create more headaches than it's worth I.M.O.

 

[rerod]

Not sure how serious you really are but I would consider ripping out the concrete and removing the grade to get the height needed. Removing the above structure is going to create more headaches than it's worth I.M.O.

How much lower could I pour the new floor without new footings and what not?

 

[torched]

Hard to say, different codes for different regions. Do you have a basement? One limiting factor to this idea is making sure you do not go below street level grade without considering adding a drainage system.

 

[yeldogt]

Had to underpin the outside wall foundation when I dropped my garage floor in one house .. no other choice.

I have reconfigured houses where the bedroom count dropped ... but never to 1. You would have to factor the cost of the reconfiguration and then the cost to restore or diminished value .. vs building a separate garage. The bedroom removal is most likely wasted money.

A second garage would add some value .. as would a more usable garage with lower floor.

 

[HoosierMark]

You say you 10-15 more years to work and a corner lot. Thoughts that come to mind are:
Can you put up a metal structure and then unbolt it and move it when you get ready to sell?
Can you simply add a one car garage next to the existing garage and tie them in so you have a 3 car garage.
Can you find a house in the same neighborhood with more options to get what you really want?
There will be lots of cost associated with this change, have you checked all the other bus routes, locations to make sure you could not move sideways to a similar area and get what you want?
Yes if you add a garage your taxes may go up, but if done correctly the value should increase overall so there will be a benefit.
I do think you should do what you want but you should also keep an idea on your bigger financial picture. For example if you did without and really saved could you cut the whole work thing down to fewer hours, days or years? Then you could possibly move or even retire.
Gutting your house will be a major headache and drop the value big time. I would think long and hard about this being the best solution.

 

[truckman5000]

do taxes go up if you make your existing garage bigger? I dont pay taxes on my garage, here.

How about building a 18' or so extension on the front of the existing garage to the hight of the bedroom ceiling. As this would keep the bred rooms, and double the garage space.

It wouldnt be a good idea removing those bedrooms.

 

[whyNick?]

It seems like removing those bedrooms would really kill the resale value on your house and by the time you do all that work I'd think you'd be close to the cost of a basic outbuilding anyway. But before I did anything I'd explore lowering the existing garage floor...

edit: waidaminnit, am I reading it right, are you putting a Cummins and a 5 speed in your 4x4 van? Sweet, need more pics please!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Looking at the picture of your place, I'd add a garage off to the left side if code and variances will allow it. I think it would be cheaper and easier in the long run.

Can you go out to the corner and take a picture of your house at an angle and post it up here ?

Run the trusses the same as the current ones are and the roof line half way up the wall. Put in an 8' door, don't go any bigger in a residential area. Make the door face the side street with a driveway.

 

[rerod]

Had to underpin the outside wall foundation when I dropped my garage floor in one house .. no other choice.

A second garage would add some value .. as would a more usable garage with lower floor.

How far did you drop, lower the concrete?

My driveway has a slight uphill right now. If it were level, my garage floor could be at least one foot lower, but my basement walls aren't that deep.

I guess I cant envision digging lower, like I can removing the steel header above my garage door and relocating it under the engineered trusses eight feet higher.

Can you put up a metal structure and then unbolt it and move it when you get ready to sell?.

That's a idea Mark.. But I can't build anything closer to the road than I already own.. Setback..

Meaning nothing closer than my house, to both sunset and penfro. So I could only build off the back of my house, not side..

The hill going up my back yard rises about four feet in the fifty foot width of my house. Even more right off the sunset sidewalk.

There will be lots of cost associated with this change, have you checked all the other bus routes, locations to make sure you could not move sideways to a similar area and get what you want?
.

I always look at garages and yards around my neighborhood.. I used to ride my bike to work and still walk allot. There aren't any hobbie farm type garages at all. And anywhere else in town would add at least a 1/2 hour and transfer to my bus ride. Maybe a hour! Screw that.

Plus most other houses in my area cost more and have another 7' garage door.. Mine has a addition and the exterior is OK, but the interior is TRASHED. Two bathrooms gutted.. Holes in the bedroom walls.. Doors missing or beat up.. Graffiti all over.. Carpet stained walls ceilings stained etc etc.. Did I mention its trashed? The X got the remodeled house..

do taxes go up if you make your existing garage bigger? I dont pay taxes on my garage, here.

No they would go down with less finished living space!

edit: waidaminnit, am I reading it right, are you putting a Cummins and a 5 speed in your 4x4 van? Sweet, need more pics please!

Cummins 5 spd is in.. Now for the axles..

Looking at the picture of your place, I'd add a garage off to the left side if code and variances will allow it. I think it would be cheaper and easier in the long run.

Can you go out to the corner and take a picture of your house at an angle and post it up here ?

Nope.. the city wont let me build anything closer to both of my roads..

Here ya go..

 

[CNGsaves]

SOLUTION: Tall two-wide carport butted up against house (ie 24'x24'). 4 post lift that you roll out from garage into driveway.

Take it all down and bring with you later when you move.

 

[volleyball]

There are several possibilities. You may be able to put your garage on the other side of the house. Uphill side. You could keep the roof line near the existing and end up with a tall garage. This could be then converted to living space by a future buyer. Maybe a master suite.
You could put a garage on the back side of the house. Something that could be removed in the future if needed.
You could lower the garage. Would not be hard to put in new lower footing. It would mean a retaining wall on the front on the uphill side.
You could ask for a variance. I assume a camper parking garage is not something unheard of at the building dept. They might even appreciate you keeping that ugly camper out of site. So you do the side addition and put your van in there until you buy the "camper".
Lastly, how much would it cost to rent garage space somewhere while you do the build? Maybe leaving the house alone makes the most sense.

 

[jgorm]

Do it! Get the sledge and sawzall and start making a bad *** garage! 4x4 vans kick ***! I might try to convert one upstairs bedroom to more garage space and have just one high bay.

 

[torched]

the issue with raising the roof is far more extensive than just relocating a beam, when you remove the joists for the second story floors you must in turn convert the exterior load bearing walls from 2x4 to 2x6. That's just some of the structure issues, you also have to deal with the electrical and HVAC from those rooms. My guess is you would try to do this under the radar without pulling permits which you may be able to do. However keep in mind that no one would likely ever buy that house with that much un-permitted work done to it.

Your best option without building a second garage is to lower the existing floor. I would explore the stem walls in the garage to see how deep they are and plan accordingly from there. You can always underpin the existing walls as another member mentioned and effectively go as deep as you want, just account for any negative drainage issues.

 

[bczygan]

Weird as it sounds, you have hit upon what may be your least expensive solution, based on the constraints of your site. The only other possible solution might be digging down. But I would rather redo framing.

Your bedroom floor joists must run front to back, because of the cantilever. This is good, because you need not remove the entire system of floor framing, just enough to allow the van width.

That is assuming the vehicle is tall enough to interfere with the floor framing.

The work will show from the outside because you will have to remove a portion of the bottom of the middle of the cantilever and reframe it higher. New beams and framing can occur up in that bedroom space.

Here is a question. Is the limit of the front face of the building that you can build to, the front face of the cantilever? If so, you could install foundations and walls under this, eliminating the cantilever and simplifying the installation of the new taller door.

If you don't do that, you will have a recess in the cantilever for the taller door.

Understand?

 

[bczygan]

Will the vehicle fit under the overhang of the cantilever, and the ceiling inside, if the garage door header was moved up or removed? That header could actually be installed on top of the bedroom floor joists, and the joists hung from it. Or do you want to be able to lift the vehicle? What are the dimensions involved?

If the only problem is the garage door header being in the way, the temporary fix could be fairly simple.

 

[rerod]

SOLUTION: Tall two-wide carport butted up against house (ie 24'x24'). 4 post lift that you roll out from garage into driveway.

Take it all down and bring with you later when you move.

That's a pretty good idea except not sure on codes for car ports.. I do know you cant have a in-operational car left in your driveway. And its still outside in the cold and blocks my trailer access to the back yard.

the issue with raising the roof is far more extensive than just relocating a beam, when you remove the joists for the second story floors you must in turn convert the exterior load bearing walls from 2x4 to 2x6. That's just some of the structure issues, you also have to deal with the electrical and HVAC from those rooms. My guess is you would try to do this under the radar without pulling permits which you may be able to do. However keep in mind that no one would likely ever buy that house with that much un-permitted work done to it.

Your best option without building a second garage is to lower the existing floor. I would explore the stem walls in the garage to see how deep they are and plan accordingly from there. You can always underpin the existing walls as another member mentioned and effectively go as deep as you want, just account for any negative drainage issues.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality.. Dropping the floor , or raising eliminating the header might get the van inside. But it doesn't help lifting it.. I would still have the door itself hanging from the 8' ceiling to deal with.

Your bedroom floor joists must run front to back, because of the cantilever. This is good, because you need not remove the entire system of floor framing, just enough to allow the van width.

That is assuming the vehicle is tall enough to interfere with the floor framing.

The work will show from the outside because you will have to remove a portion of the bottom of the middle of the cantilever and reframe it higher. New beams and framing can occur up in that bedroom space.

Here is a question. Is the limit of the front face of the building that you can build to, the front face of the cantilever? If so, you could install foundations and walls under this, eliminating the cantilever and simplifying the installation of the new taller door.

If you don't do that, you will have a recess in the cantilever for the taller door.

Understand?

Yeah that cantilever really screws it up, complicating everything.. The new taller door area would have to look similar to the existing front door foyer wall..

Will the vehicle fit under the overhang of the cantilever, and the ceiling inside, if the garage door header was moved up? Or do you want to be able to lift the vehicle? What are the dimensions involved?

The van now fits under the cantilever overhang. But Im going to gain another 4" of lift at least.. The header under the overhang is 11" tall.

The van is inside my garage now. But I had to almost flatten the tires to drive it in. I inflated the tires after it was inside, but the door hits the top of the van when opened if I inflate them all the way. I installed the cummins last year in the garage, but it was a *****.

The best option might be, and I hate to say, but sell and start over and drive to work like most people.. Again.

Or build a garage with a apartment above it.. But would you rent a place that the owner lived 50' away? lol

 

[volleyball]

Is it worth the cost for a few inches of lift? Only you can answer that.
How much are you planning on lifting the van work lift? Do you want to walk underneath?
Then you may need 14' or more.
If you do tear into the bedroom space, you will have to firewall the space.

 

[yeldogt]

How far did you drop, lower the concrete?

My driveway has a slight uphill right now. If it were level, my garage floor could be at least one foot lower, but my basement walls aren't that deep.

I guess I cant envision digging lower, like I can removing the steel header above my garage door and relocating it under the engineered trusses eight feet higher.



I dropped it down about 18" at the door. My driveway was too steep and then the garage had a slope to the rear that was too great. The house/ garage common wall was fine as I have a basement -- the other one required some excavation and concrete.

I was redoing doing the driveway --- this allowed for less slope all around.

 

[rerod]

Is it worth the cost for a few inches of lift? Only you can answer that.
How much are you planning on lifting the van work lift? Do you want to walk underneath?
Then you may need 14' or more.
If you do tear into the bedroom space, you will have to firewall the space.

Definitely not.

Being able to walk or sit comfortably is what I'm after at my age. Regardless of what I drive.

Thanks everyone for your input

 

[whyNick?]

How far did you drop, lower the concrete?

My driveway has a slight uphill right now. If it were level, my garage floor could be at least one foot lower, but my basement walls aren't that deep.

I guess I cant envision digging lower, like I can removing the steel header above my garage door and relocating it under the engineered trusses eight feet higher.



That's a idea Mark.. But I can't build anything closer to the road than I already own.. Setback..

Meaning nothing closer than my house, to both sunset and penfro. So I could only build off the back of my house, not side..

The hill going up my back yard rises about four feet in the fifty foot width of my house. Even more right off the sunset sidewalk.



I always look at garages and yards around my neighborhood.. I used to ride my bike to work and still walk allot. There aren't any hobbie farm type garages at all. And anywhere else in town would add at least a 1/2 hour and transfer to my bus ride. Maybe a hour! Screw that.

Plus most other houses in my area cost more and have another 7' garage door.. Mine has a addition and the exterior is OK, but the interior is TRASHED. Two bathrooms gutted.. Holes in the bedroom walls.. Doors missing or beat up.. Graffiti all over.. Carpet stained walls ceilings stained etc etc.. Did I mention its trashed? The X got the remodeled house..



No they would go down with less finished living space!



Cummins 5 spd is in.. Now for the axles..





Nope.. the city wont let me build anything closer to both of my roads..

Here ya go..

That's going to be some truck, just like Henry should have built 'em in the first place.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Nope.. the city wont let me build anything closer to both of my roads..

Here ya go..

They say no with the setbacks, but can you or have you tried (asked about) a variance ?

 

[rerod]

They say no with the setbacks, but can you or have you tried (asked about) a variance ?

No, Iv never tried a variance or knew.. If you travel with google street view down sunset, you will notice no car ports or anything past the setback. Whats the hardship? lol

But its worth a shot..

 

[bczygan]

OK.

Sounds like you have 2 desires.

First is to be able to drive in without taking air out of the tires.

The solution to that is to raise the header beam for the garage door, to above the floor joists. That will give you better clearance, but then you will need a taller door.

The other problem is a need to raise the vehicle to work on it, and raise it substantially.

For that, you will simply cut and remove enough of the floor joists, so you have an opening in the floor, large enough to raise the vehicle through.

The question here, is about the layout of the rooms above the garage. We need to know the layout to see if there are any bearing walls or beams that need to be accounted for.

What I am saying, is that you can certainly do what you want.

Give us more photos and descriptions and dimensions.

 

[Cobra5150]

No new ideas but like the DRZ. I have one just like it.

 

[Kevin54]

If it were me, and this is just my opinion.......I'd sell, and find someplace that you really like with the room to build a garage like you really want. I wouldn't modify a 4 bedroom home just to increase garage space, whether it is easy or cheap. If you ever go to sell, you'll have a hell of a time getting rid of it, unless it is to a like person that works on cars, no kids, and just a wife. By doing what you want to do, you will seriously devalue the house. Just my $.02 on it.

 

[volleyball]

I think the OP just wants someone to think his idea is wonderful. Seems that isn't happening.
We've offered options and they all get rejected.
I mentioned variance may posts ago and the answer is that he cannot get one. Probably without trying.
And a variance seems way easier to get than ever getting his plan approved. And with that raised ranch, you won't be able to hide the conversion.

 

[bczygan]

It's really not that hard to do.

Structural framing is NOT sacrosanct.

At it's simplest, you could do this:

Continue to de-air the tires to get the vehicle inside.

A reciprocating saw to cut a hole in the floor. Make the hole just big enough to accommodate the vehicle and lift. Remove the floor joists full length, wall to wall.

A few pieces of lumber to triangulate and brace the cantilever inside.

All work done inside. Outside left as is.

Do NOT box in the hole. Just leave as is while you are using it. Just close the bedroom door and lock it.

When you are ready to sell the house, install new floor joists with hangers, floor sheathing to bring the level equal to surrounding floor, and carpet the room.

Install fire code drywall on bottom of joists.

Done!

 

[HoosierMark]

I think you need to look around the neighborhood and see if there are any garages closer then the setbacks. Then apply for a variance. Since the garage will be on the street side and not bother any other neighbors, they may not complain. It will/should raise your property value and therefore theirs also (minimal). It should increase the appeal of the house to have a three car garge. You do not have any windows on that side and could go with scissors trusses to make it match up yet give you the height you want. This would be the first solution I would try, all they can do is say no, they cannot shoot you! LOL

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Removing the two bedrooms will kill off $50K or more from the value of your house, while also reducing the value by having a highly modified garage that is out of norm for the area. You could be seeing your property value drop by $50-100K from your changes. If you have a mortgage, the bank may not be happy about that.

It will cost quite a bit to make those changes, and you could save money over all by building next to the garage, behind it, or another structure if the property has enough room.

OOOOR, save yourself a lot of trouble and move to a house with a big separate shop building instead.

 

[whyNick?]

It's really not that hard to do.

Structural framing is NOT sacrosanct.

At it's simplest, you could do this:

Continue to de-air the tires to get the vehicle inside.

A reciprocating saw to cut a hole in the floor. Make the hole just big enough to accommodate the vehicle and lift. Remove the floor joists full length, wall to wall.

A few pieces of lumber to triangulate and brace the cantilever inside.

All work done inside. Outside left as is.

Do NOT box in the hole. Just leave as is while you are using it. Just close the bedroom door and lock it.

When you are ready to sell the house, install new floor joists with hangers, floor sheathing to bring the level equal to surrounding floor, and carpet the room.

Install fire code drywall on bottom of joists.

Done!

Hmm, this might just work. But I wouldn't lock the bedroom door, I'd install a fire pole for rapid access to the shop...