Existing gas line question

[jasond37]

Greetings! I'm a DIY'r like many of you and if this is something I can make work it would make my day. I recently bought the house and the garage already has a gas line and a ventless blue flame heater. I'm replacing it for obvious reasons. I bought a Big Maxx 50k to mount just above where this unit is. I'm struggling with how to best run the gas up to it from here, its about 2-3' directly above. What are your suggestions? I've got a few ideas but thought I'd look around and what others did. Existing run is soft copper directly from main in the basement. Basement is now finished too. Hiring the job out is not financially doable right now, as you can imagine our first gas bill was astronomical, the ventless is too small and is not compatable with a thermostat. There is plumbing in the ceiling as a bonus room w/bath is up there. The plumbing was replaced once because of freeze by the previous owner, I'm not risking no heat. Fully insulated but with the cold we've had in MN it runs nonstop. Trust me I respect the situation I have here, if a pro is needed I'll have to find a way but if this is something I can do I'm gonna do it. Just looking for some ideas....thanks!!

 

[CNGsaves]

Few questions:

a) What size is garage??
b) You say fully insulated, but is heater expected to keep "bonus room" also heated?? Is bonus room in attic or what?? How big??
c) Where do you plan to run exhaust flue from Big Maxx hanging heater??

Now would be good time to Update GJ Profile with City/State/Country.

 

[jasond37]

A) The garage is a three car garage. 26' deep - haven't yet measured the width but very 'standard' for houses around here.
B) The bonus room is part of the interior of the house - it's the 'master suite'. It is heated with the house. The floor of the room/ceiling of garage is insulated, and where the plumbing is ran to the master bath. The plumbing has pipe insulation around it. The sides of the bonus room (master suite) above the garage is blown in. The walls are batt and the doors are foam board.
C) Exhaust is run out horizontally to the back of the garage through the existing hole in the wall. One of my concerns regarding the gas line is how close the exhaust will run to it. As you can see in the picture it is currently ran in the corner, near where it will exit the garage. I can see where the gas line may need to be re-routed over to the heater rather than follow the wall around. One of the previous owners (two, house was built in 2003) had a hanging heater installed - the hangers are still there as is the wiring for thermostat and power.

The ventless keeps it toasty in there on low, it just runs steady. I believe that is a 30k. I get moisture buildup on the garage door (not sure if that's because of the ventless or the foamboard insulation). There is a non-gas odor put off by the ventless too. With the master suite directly upstairs I don't want to deal with the ventless unit. I'll update my profile with my info, I forgot to do so.

 

[Lootenny]

The moisture is because it is ventless. It is super efficient, but the result of almost complete combustion is water vapor. Without venting it out, it condenses inside the building.

 

[jasond37]

That's one of the reasons why I want to get rid of it. I'm considering leaving the gas line in place for now and routing a flex line up to the heater. I'll look at a more permanent solution when I have much more time. The only thing that concerns me is the gas line running parallel to the vent for a short length (6" away)...but it runs next to it by the connection points so I'd think it would be fine?

 

[rlitman]

I'm not a fan of copper gas lines, but I wouldn't make any changes with yours.

If you are removing the blue flame heater (and I agree that removing it is for the best), then I would just remove the union by the drip leg, put in an elbow, and a piece of black pipe running up in the direction of the heater. One more elbow facing away from the wall (and some straps to secure the pipe, and perhaps another length of pipe to get you close enough), and you can attach a 2' or 3' flexible gas line from there to your heater.

This leaves the gas valve at a convenient height, and doesn't expose the stainless flex line to damage (plus a few feet of black pipe and a short pre-made flex gas line is much cheaper than a run of CSST).

6" away from the vent is sufficient clearance. I too might be uncomfortable with less.

 

[gungatim]

copper gas line needs a single flare. do not try and use compression fittings. get a double male flare fitting and another piece of copper and flare it, or a flexible appliance gas line if you prefer.

 

[Rookie2]

I would open the Big Maxx installation instructions and do the calculation on gas line sizing to make sure you have the proper size gas line .

 

[jasond37]

Thanks guys for the input, it is very helpful! I will double check the size of the line to make sure it is what is spec'd in the manual.

 

[koditten]

Is the gas propane? I see a regulator, so I'm guessing yes.

 

[CNGsaves]

Is the gas propane? I see a regulator, so I'm guessing yes.

Sure looks like regulator for LPG/propane? OP can just remove the black pipe steel union and replace with elbow and run a stick of black pipe steel up towards ceiling and put a ball valve up top, then a flex pipe to Big Maxx hanging heater.

 

[D.J.]

From what I see you could just shorten up your copper run and use existing equipment minus the regulator and add short flex line and reinstall the drip leg on the new heater.

 

[dfiler2]

Don't know if this is true everywhere but I noticed you are in Minnesota and here I don't think it's legal to have a regulator inside and especially that close to an open flame. Hooking up the new heater yourself is pretty simple and lots of people have given you safe ways to do it but please get that regulator outside.

 

[jasond37]

It is natural gas. The regulator was installed by the previous owner as is the whole system, I know I won't need it for the Big Maxx. I'm going to do like D.J. and others recommended.

 

[CNGsaves]

It is natural gas. The regulator was installed by the previous owner as is the whole system, I know I won't need it for the Big Maxx. I'm going to do like D.J. and others recommended.

^ ^ Doesn't make sense that prior ventless heater "did need" regulator and now you won't need regulator. Generally, residential service is low pressure anyway at only approx. .25 to .4 psi (ie around 7 to 11 water column inches). Possible that you have high pressure ??

What pressure is coming into that copper line, and where is the source??

How far away from meter does that copper line run at 1/2" ??

If you ultimately want to do this right, above all that needs figured out. My convenient "easy" fix above was assuming this might be temporary setup, or keeping it as simple as possible.

 

[jasond37]

The source is in the basement off the main setup, behind the furnace. There are five other lines coming off main; stove, house furnace, dryer, water heater and fireplace. The garage line is copper, as is the fireplace and water heater. Others are CSST. The garage line runs up into the ceiling and punches through the garage over a finished basement, I have really no access to it. I don't know if running a new line is even doable, I'd really like to use what's there. I have no access into the garage from where the main in the basement is. I have no idea other than the ventless needs really low pressure. I'm guessing at the total length of the existing line, maybe 40'? I'm traveling for work and if it's not figured out I will post a pic of the main setup in the basement if that helps, won't be until later this week.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ Only 40 ft at 1/2" in that continuous copper likely fine for your 50K Btu hanging heater to replace the ventless, based on your description above. If no other appliances in house have NG regulators, then guess the NG ventless was unique.

Would look much better (also add safety) to cutoff copper up high on wall (ie while horizontal) and move shutoff and drip leg there, so that only 3 ft flex line needed to Big Maxx. Should secure the NG line to wall every several feet. Test any connections with soapy water for leaks.

 

[The FIB]

I'm no plumber, but that seems like a lot of thread showing to the left of the union,
is that even tight?

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . also have to ask what is strange hanging romex "ground wire" from ceiling that goes down on left side of electrical panel ??

What does that jack bass ackwards wire do ???

 

[jasond37]

The wire is for the electrical connection for the heater, another gem the was left there for me by the prev owner. The smaller wire is for the thermostat, wired to a different workbench perpendicular to this one a few feet away. I will look at that connection when I get back, I never shaped it up as it was already functioning and looked fine. The system is all OFF while I'm gone anyway, it's warmer out this week and not needed right now.