I need a new A/C system

[700jfm]

My home is 18 years old and my a/c unit is rusted out. Over the years I have opened it up to clean the coils, treat the rust and seal any leaks. Now it's time to replace. I have had good luck with the outside unit but the one in the attic is at it's end. The bottom has become to rusty to repair anymore.
So here is what I would like to do. Where my attic system is now blocks the hole attic. They installed it right at the top of the pull down stairs on a 5/12 roof pitch. If they had put it to the left of the stairs it would of been the best place. It would not of closed off the attic, it would need less air duct, the air return is 20' long if the unit was put to the left it would be 6' it would shorten the air vents to. It would have better supported under the unit. I just don't get it.
So here's the info on what I have. It's American standard heat pump I can't find the ton but here's the mod. Heritage "10" 6H0048A100A3 1/4 hp outside unit that was replaced 10 years ago the one it replaced was actually hit by lightning And TWHC488104A0 upstairs unit. The home is 2,800sf. one story, close to salt water in Texas. I want to do the move myself. And looking for the best system for my needs, it will have to be a horizontal unit in the attic with electric heat rack.
I have the room to install the new one with the old one is in place. So I have the time to get everything ready, and have someone evacuate the old and tie in the new.

 

[mrb]

you mentioned support under the bottom, here in so cal, we hang them from the roof instead of sitting them on the ceiling, this reduces the noise from the unit in the house. Do they do this in tx?

 

[700jfm]

you mentioned support under the bottom, here in so cal, we hang them from the roof instead of sitting them on the ceiling, this reduces the noise from the unit in the house. Do they do this in tx?

I have never seen one.

 

[redsky49]

Indoor units are frequently hung from the rafters (spread the load) in order to reduce noise and vibration. Spring isolators are located at the four corners and all-thread is used to hang the unit. This may, or may not, simplify your install.

Remember to provide an auxiliary drain pan and extend the drain pan discharge to flow to atmosphere somewhere where the flow will be noted. This is the signal to check the pans.

Good luck with the install.

As always, offered only as opinion

 

[rickairmedic]

700 I highly recomend Goodman equipment as a good choice for the money. You have a 4 ton system currently and with your square footage I would actually recomend a 5 ton system which would give you just over 500SQ ' per ton. The 48 in both your model numbers is your tonage 1 ton per 12,000 BTU's thus 48 is 4 tons. I would also suggest having it installed by a pro unless you have a freind in the Bus. you will void the warranty by doing it yourself and for $99.00 per piece of equipment you can actually get a 10 year parts and labor warranty through Goodman which oddly enough is actually out of Texas . I dont use auxilary drain lines anymore I install a float switch into the aux. drain pan that shuts the unit down if water gets into the pan . You may not notice water comming from the auxilery drain but you will notice its hot in your house and the AC isnt running .


Rick

 

[700jfm]

Thanks redsky49

700 I highly recomend Goodman equipment as a good choice for the money. You have a 4 ton system currently and with your square footage I would actually recomend a 5 ton system which would give you just over 500SQ ' per ton. The 48 in both your model numbers is your tonage 1 ton per 12,000 BTU's thus 48 is 4 tons. I would also suggest having it installed by a pro unless you have a freind in the Bus. you will void the warranty by doing it yourself and for $99.00 per piece of equipment you can actually get a 10 year parts and labor warranty through Goodman which oddly enough is actually out of Texas . I dont use auxilary drain lines anymore I install a float switch into the aux. drain pan that shuts the unit down if water gets into the pan . You may not notice water comming from the auxilery drain but you will notice its hot in your house and the AC isnt running .


Rick

Thanks rick I looked at the goodman. I did not see a horizontal model

 

[rickairmedic]

700 there are 3 on this page that are multi position that will go horizontal with no problem . They are made to go upflow ,downflow or on their side . the first 3 air handlers will work.



http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Home/Products/AirHandlers/tabid/262/Default.aspx



Rick

 

[700jfm]

Thanks for the link.

 

[rickairmedic]

No problem 700 . I will be honest Goodman used to have a bad name but honestly it was mostly due to us Technicians trying to sell the high end ( name brand ) equipmant . When we opened our shop we became a Carrier dealer as I had been dealing with them for several years but I also looked around at some of the cheaper options as the economy was starting to turn then.Goodman in my opinion is just as good if not better than Carrier,Trane, Lennox and many other name brands and actually can be had with a better warranty for less money mostly due to the fact that they dont blow $100 million a year plus in advertising ( that somebody usually the homeowner ) has to pay for . I was paying for the right to sell Carrier products and have never been asked once to pay for the priveledge to sell Goodman equipment. You will not find a 21 SEER unit in their lineup but you also dont need a 21 SEER unit . Most homeowners will not live in their current home long enough to see a payback on one of those systems . I am a huge Dual fuel ( Hybrid heat ) dealer and was one of the first peaple in my area selling them and now everybody has jumped on the wagon with them. I sell mostly 13 SEER ( minimum requirement ) heat pumps with 95% gas/propane furnaces and have sat down with the calculators and found these setups are most likely to actually show a return on investment. I sat down with a young man last night and showed him where he could cut at least $400.00 a year off of his gas bill and that was conservative . The cost differance for him to go with a heatpump to replace his dead AC unit was only $600.00 so in a year and a half his savings would pay the differance in price and within 5 years he would actually pay for the whole system change and it would begin to pay him to use it .


Rick

 

[larry4406]

I worked for a high end production home builder for 6 years in Northern Va. We did 550+ units per year ranging from $650k to $1.3M. We used Goodman equipment - heat pumps and 90+ units. From our end, good equipment, best pricing, minimal to no problems (execpt installation errors).

 

[700jfm]

How about this system? I was thinking the middle one. And what about R410A is it good?

I hope the link works. It should show a 5 ton heat pump, with 5ton air handler. with all the acc. For 5,303.00 deal or no deal.

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/kitbuilder_new/splitsystem/showgrid.cfm




?

 

[rickairmedic]

700 that price seems fair for what you are getting but I would get a couple estimates on the full install from some local contractors just to be sure also check around to see if you can get a local contractor who is willing to put in equipment you purchased . I am not sold on 410A yet but wont have much choice next year currently I am still selling mostly R22 systems as I feel R22 still works better than 410A . I also still think R12 works better than 134A as well though .


Rick

 

[700jfm]

700 that price seems fair for what you are getting but I would get a couple estimates on the full install from some local contractors just to be sure also check around to see if you can get a local contractor who is willing to put in equipment you purchased . I am not sold on 410A yet but wont have much choice next year currently I am still selling mostly R22 systems as I feel R22 still works better than 410A . I also still think R12 works better than 134A as well though .


Rick

Thanks Rick thats what I need to know.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

700 that price seems fair for what you are getting but I would get a couple estimates on the full install from some local contractors just to be sure also check around to see if you can get a local contractor who is willing to put in equipment you purchased . I am not sold on 410A yet but wont have much choice next year currently I am still selling mostly R22 systems as I feel R22 still works better than 410A . I also still think R12 works better than 134A as well though .


Rick

Not to hijack this thread, but what is the future for R22 as far as supplies? Has it been banned from being made yet? What is future as far as price; will it become scarce and expensive to use like R12?

 

[700jfm]

Not to hijack this thread, but what is the future for R22 as far as supplies? Has it been banned from being made yet? What is future as far as price; will it become scarce and expensive to use like R12?

Hijack away, I was thinking about the samething.

 

[bazar01]

Here are the facts from the EPA site.

Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22
Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential heat pump and air-conditioning industry:

January 1, 2004:
The Montreal Protocol required the U.S. to reduce its consumption by 35 percent below the baseline cap by January 1, 2004. As of January 1, 2003, EPA banned production and import of HCFC-141b, the HCFC with the highest ODP. This action allowed the United States to meet its obligations under the Montreal Protocol. EPA also issued baseline allowances for production and import of HCFC-22 and HCFC-142b. EPA allocated 100 percent of the U.S. consumption and production caps by allocating both consumption and production allowances to individual companies for HCFC-141b, HCFC-22, and HCFC-142b.
January 1, 2010:
After 2010, chemical manufacturers may still produce R-22 to service existing equipment, but not for use in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers will only be able to use pre-existing supplies of R-22 to produce new air conditioners and heat pumps. These existing supplies would include R-22 recovered from existing equipment and recycled.
January 1, 2020:
Use of existing refrigerant, including refrigerant that has been recovered and recycled, will be allowed beyond 2020 to service existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps.

For more info, pls check out the site at
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html

 

[kerrville15]

All of the R410A systems we have installed have been working great. We have to install 13 SEER minimum on existing change outs & minimum 14 SEER on new construction. We install nothing but Ruud equipment, and we have had really good luck with them. (Been installing Rheem/Ruud for over 30 years now). If you plan on staying in this house for a while, then I recommend R410A, and I also recommend looking into a heat pump.

The price on R22 is already a lot higher than it used to be; around $200 for a 30lb jug compared to around $100 9 years ago. The price is just going to get higher, so looks like we're going to be screwed in the future.

 

[rickairmedic]

To answer the R22 debate further ICOR is aleady making a drop in replacement for R22 just like the did for R12 . Yes R22 will go up in price just like everything else in 20 years it may even catch up with R12 which is curently around $1200.00 for a 25 pound jug ( Mexico is still makeing as much R12 as we can use ) . R22 has tripled in price in as many years but that is mostly due to the economy and it has actually gone down a little this year compared to last . I dont mess with new construction as buiders have a bad rep of not wanting to pay their bills . I still say 410A doesnt work as well as R22 and if you are replacing a system now I would stil stick with R22 while you can . R12 is not by any means scarce ( if you have an EPA license) I can buy it at any of my suppliers any day of the week although if I need R12 I generally will pick up Hot Shot which is ICOR's R12 drop in replacement.


Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

One other point I would like to make is a 15SEER system is still $1000.00 + more than the same 13 SEER system and I honestly dont think you will see the savings from 2 SEER points to make it worth the extra cost. I have done the calculations on these systems and currently the best bang for a buck is a 13 SEER heat pump coupled to a 95% gas furnace for being paid back for your investment . I sell alot of heat pumps to replace existing dead AC units and most of my customers who currently use gas as their primary heat source will see a payback in roughly 5 years on their investment by using the heatpump to provide most of their heat through the winter and the gas furnace only running when it drops below 35* . This honestly doesnt have alot to do with the OP as he has a full heat pump system but I wrote for referance for other members who may be using a fossil fuel for most of their heating now.


Rick

 

[700jfm]

Thanks for all this information and help. It's giving me something to think about. My plan is to live here as long as I'm above ground.
I do live fairly close to Mexico.

 

[rickairmedic]

LOL 700 they will tote me out of my curent house in a leather bag when the time comes I have no desire to ever move again if I run out of room I will add on . I am already planning to add a 30X35' addition onto my existing 2&1/2 car garage .


Rick