Wilton Bullet Vise date stamping. show yours with or without EXP on slide

[Outlawmws]

So are saying that you believe there were "Chicago" vises built BEFORE "Pat Pend" vises? If so, I have trouble with that. Back then, patents were taken very seriously, and manufacturers would not risk putting products in the market prior to patent. And AFAIK the castings of the 2 versions are slightly different around the swivel clamp area. I find it much more plausible that the No Date vises were wartime versions built after the patent was approved.

And I still believe that many of the early dated vises were overstock war production that was date-stamped after the war for sale to the public. There would be no way to accurately date the true manufacture of that early production. Unless it says "Exp Guar" I would not assume that any date is off by 5 years.

once again...

We have Patent pending vises as late as 12/46; Patent was issued in 3/42.

That is 4.8 years...

Patents WERE taken seriously, and one a Patent was granted, they are NOT going to use "Patent Pending" very long after; certainly not for near 5 years on fairly common (fast movng) stock...

 

[exmaxima1]

once again...

We have Patent pending vises as late as 12/46; Patent was issued in 3/42.

That is 4.8 years...

Patents WERE taken seriously, and one a Patent was granted, they are NOT going to use "Patent Pending" very long after; certainly not for near 5 years on fairly common (fast movng) stock...

There was a WORLD WAR going on during that period, and there is historical evidence that Wilton nearly went bankrupt after the war due to overstock. Who's to say what castings were left when the troops returned and started buying again?

I guess my biggest issue is perpetuating a myth based on no clear facts. But I'm not a religious person, so I guess I will never get it......

Believe whatever makes you feel good

 

[drivesitfar]

All: Please keep posting your old Wilton bullets slides if they are dated earlier than 1980 if they have a GUAR EXP in front of the date and all vises stamped prior to 1965 to add to our data.

i'm not convinced that the 1940's Wilton bullets are not the actual dates of production especially since at least one stamped 4-945 has Chicago on it's side and not Patent Pending.

of course there is a lot of confusion at Wilton because WWII was happening as they started up their company.

i'm wondering if Uncle Sam was buying all of Wilton's vises except the baby bullets from 1941 to 1945?

not enough data yet for me to make a firm decision, but it is looking like the Guar EXP stopped in 1965 because we have at least one from that year without the Guar EXP or EXP and a 1964 bullet that does have it.

thanks for taking all the time it takes to pull apart your Wiltons and taking pictures and posting them and maybe a good idea to do a little cleaning and re greasing while you have them apart.

cheers

 

[exmaxima1]

i'm not convinced that the 1940's Wilton bullets are not the actual dates of production especially since at least one stamped 4-945 has Chicago on it's side and not Patent Pending.

Drives, another thing to consider are the swivel clamps and jaws. I've seen Pat Pend vises dated '46 & '47 with the newer style serrated jaws (I have one), and some vises with the bronze slide handle clamps: both were features brought out after the war.

Just saying........

 

[bluebolt]

I am doing a massive search for dates on GJ. I am halfway through the entire vise thread using "Wilton date" as the search. That was still 11 pages to go through. Let's se what turns up. I am only looking at bullets and not including Cadet's. I am ignoring any vise's dated after 1969 UNLESS they are made in Chicago.

The most important thing so far? STILL not one vise with a date of 1954 through 1958.

 

[Outlawmws]

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree.. your theory HAS NO FACTS, and discounting a pretty clear piece of evidence with "it was the war", is, IMO perpetuating a theory...

Less arm waving more facts...

BB I'll be interested in what you find, but I'm not sure why you want to exclude the Cadets? It's part of their Policy implementation, other than it's a 3 year warranty instead of 5.

 

[exmaxima1]

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree.. your theory HAS NO FACTS, and discounting a pretty clear piece of evidence with "it was the war", is, IMO perpetuating a theory...

I'm still waiting for the "pretty clear cut piece of evidence" that Wilton dated vises 5 years out from their manufacturing date. With the exception of the GUAR EXP models, where is the evidence?

Did Wilton Corp confirm this? NO
Did anyone that worked at Wilton during that era confirm this? NO
Do you have evidence that explains how pre-Pat-Pend "Chicago" castings have 1945 date stamps? NO

The point is that there are no facts, just notions, at this time. We can agree to disagree, but please don't tell me you have any clear cut FACTS. Hopefully Drives' Wilton dating thread will eventually enlighten us all. In the meantime, all we have is faith in the unknown.

 

[bluebolt]

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree.. your theory HAS NO FACTS, and discounting a pretty clear piece of evidence with "it was the war", is, IMO perpetuating a theory...

Less arm waving more facts...

BB I'll be interested in what you find, but I'm not sure why you want to exclude the Cadets? It's part of their Policy implementation, other than it's a 3 year warranty instead of 5.

I am not worrying about the Cadet's because of the sheer amount of hours searching as it is.

 

[drivesitfar]

BB: awesome and i thank you for taking on that massive task. looking forward to seeing the results you come up with.

Outlaw: i'm not sure why you are willing to cut the search off at maybe 60 vises, but that is your right to do so. i thank you for collecting the data so far, but nothing conclusive has happened so far to convince me to do so.

EX: i agree there are guys on this forum that haven't posted for a while that I used to post a picture of a Wilton Bullet and they could give me the approximate date it was made by the jaws shape, writing on the side, swivel pins and whatever other changes Wilton made to their bullet vises. some might be smiling at us from above or just sitting on the sidelines watching these days. it would be nice to hear from Zoomie and others that have more than a couple bullets to post and add to our data.

ALL: this is for Lurkers who need to join just to post a few pictures of your wilton bullet vise's slides to help in our research. A new member Beltdrive i think added about a half a dozen of the bullets in our survey which really helps. anybody have an old bullet sitting on their bench please take it apart and take a few pictures and add some grease and use it for another 5 years. thank you

 

[Outlawmws]

Drives' I never said I cut it off, I said I have enough to come to a reasonable conclusion, if more evidence comes later we can revisit. but this is where it's led me so far.

Some people stand up a theory and defend it as THE TRUTH; some collect data and evidence, such as it is, and get supporting facts, make interpolations where needed, and state them, which is what I did. No one has to agree, but, to definitively tell me I'm wrong without evidence is BS...

 

[exmaxima1]

i'm not convinced that the 1940's Wilton bullets are not the actual dates of production especially since at least one stamped 4-945 has Chicago on it's side and not Patent Pending.

of course there is a lot of confusion at Wilton because WWII was happening as they started up their company.

i'm wondering if Uncle Sam was buying all of Wilton's vises except the baby bullets from 1941 to 1945?

Drives, read the Wilton History on their corporate website. They say that Wilton vises were sold EXCLUSIVELY to the government until after the war. Plus some info about how they nearly went bankrupt competing against the war surplus. Certainly makes you wonder why they felt the need at some point to date vises, possibly to differentiate new(er) stock from surplus. Btw, did the government expect 5 yr warranties for wartime tools? I think you can get my drift.....

http://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/company/history/

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm still waiting for the "pretty clear cut piece of evidence" that Wilton dated vises 5 years out from their manufacturing date. With the exception of the GUAR EXP models, where is the evidence?

Did Wilton Corp confirm this? NO
Did anyone that worked at Wilton during that era confirm this? NO
Do you have evidence that explains how pre-Pat-Pend "Chicago" castings have 1945 date stamps? NO

The point is that there are no facts, just notions, at this time. We can agree to disagree, but please don't tell me you have any clear cut FACTS. Hopefully Drives' Wilton dating thread will eventually enlighten us all. In the meantime, all we have is faith in the unknown.

Tell me where you have even one datum supporting your theory? You haven't shown any so far, and I've seen NOTHING to support your theory, just attacks and sneers and smears of what I've stated as "supporting myths" Are you trolling me? don't go there...

As I said, I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree, but if you want to tell me I'm wrong, or that you are right, support your position with facts...

 

[exmaxima1]

Tell me where you have even one datum supporting your theory? You haven't shown any so far, and I've seen NOTHING to support your theory, just attacks and sneers and smears of what I've stated as "supporting myths" Are you trolling me? don't go there...

As I said, I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree, but if you want to tell me I'm wrong, or that you are right, support your position with facts...

I suggest Wilton's own recollection of their history as a start. As found on their website:

"From 1941 through 1945, the new Wilton 40S machinist vise was manufactured in Chicago and sold solely to the US Government. Most vises were used in munitions factories or in manufacturing of equipment used during WWII.

After the war ended, the government dumped their surplus of tools and equipment into the marketplace at huge discounts. Because Wilton vises were only sold to the government, and did not have a distribution network in place, the surplus of vises now flooded the marketplace from the government, and nearly forced Wilton out of business."

I read this as a statement that none of the 4-inch vises were offered to the public during the war years. Further, from my experience as a supplier to the military for over 20 years, I never supplied ANY warranty to them. And never did I have to stamp any date other than the week (or month) & year of manufacture.

I read the issue of competing with the surplus after the war as the rationale for Wilton to COMMENCE date stamping. Insofar as no other vise manufacturers were date stamping at that time (nor virtually any tool makers), why would Wilton have even considered it unless they had to differentiate surplus from civilian sales?

"Theory/myth", it's all the same until factually proven otherwise. The evidence seem to be heading towards true dates on the vises, except for those marked GUAR EXP. The time line being compiled may glean some useful data to that effect.

Finally, chill out. I have not knowingly "smeared, sneared, or attacked" you. If you feel I have, I am sorry. I have much respect for your years of contributions on this forum. I just feel it is important that the dating of these historic vises supports empirical evidence.

 

[bluebolt]

I need another beer.

108 vises on my spreadsheet so far.
Notes of interest.

No dates: 27 vises of which 19 are Patent Pending vises.
Early dates: 49 vises from 2/1945 to 12/53
Gap: No vises with a date from 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957 or 1958.
GUAR EXP: 16 vises dates from 12/31/59 to 6/30/64
After EXP: First one dated 11/30/60 for a 2" Baby bullet.

 

[exmaxima1]

I need another beer.

I've had 3 IPA's since dinner.....

 

[Outlawmws]

BB I predict you will need a keg before you get though all of those posts!

 

[Outlawmws]

While I don't drink beer, wine or "spirits", not for the past, um... > 3 decades... (Leaving "toasts" out. But sometimes I gotta wonder; why not...)

 

[exmaxima1]

While I don't drink beer, wine or "spirits", not for the past, um... > 3 decades... (Leaving "toasts" out. But sometimes I gotta wonder; why not...)

Having slept open-air in the Badlands, I know what the stars look like from that vantage point. Consider this:

The Earth is a planet to the Sun

Our Sun is among roughly 1-2 Billion similar stars in the Milky Way Galaxy.

The Hubble Telescope has recently observed that there are at least 100-200 Billion GALAXIES.

That makes our significance along the lines of "Cosmic Lint" (or maybe dead skin cells).

If you feel like having a drink, go for it. Makes no difference to the cosmos....

 

[drivesitfar]

BB: i see a pattern forming nicely with your data, but i'll wait to voice my opinion until you finish. thanks again for taking the time and energy to go through the big vise thread.

 

[PghJKB]

Here are my other bullets that do fit into the date range we are looking at here.

An early No. 3, no date on slide - note the very short handle and perforated acorn nut.

An early 835 stamped 8 - 46.

God knows what stamped ?3 - 46 ( 4 inch jaws)

Another God knows what stamped 2 - 46.

Final image in next post.

JKB

 

[PghJKB]

Here's the date:

That's All Folks (for now)

JKB

 

[bluebolt]

Still working on it, up to 130 vises now. I have started adding the Cadet vises which actually gave me a new theory about the GUAR EXP dates. Still no bullets with 1954-1958 dates stamped on the keyways.

 

[drivesitfar]

BB: i think i see at least one mystery solved and maybe more as i do more reading. thanks again very very much for going through so many thousands of posts on the main vise thread to find the information you are gathering.

ALL: still would love to hear from any Wilton vise factory workers that know anything to share about the date stamping or non stamping during WWII.

thanks

 

[bluebolt]

Here are my other bullets that do fit into the date range we are looking at here.

An early No. 3, no date on slide - note the very short handle and perforated acorn nut.

An early 835 stamped 8 - 46.

God knows what stamped ?3 - 46 ( 4 inch jaws)

Another God knows what stamped 2 - 46.

Final image in next post.

JKB

Can you post a picture of the other side of the early No 3? And what is the jaw width of the 2-46 date vise?

 

[bluebolt]

Hmm lets see if this will work. Remember I am still working on this and if I did it again would do it different.

DATE DATE-GUAR JAW WIDTH GUAR EXP REMARKS AVATAR THREAD LCT NOTES
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 5 NO CHICAGO 14 CHICAGO SILVERHAIR GTF 6/24/14
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4.5J NO CURVED CHICAGO AUTOPTS VT 14478
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 5 NO CURVED CHICAGO BALANE VT 18479
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4.5P NO CURVED CHICAGO JOHNWAYNE200 GTF 7/25/14
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO JREB10
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 2 NO PAT PDG CHICAGO RICLEH VT 9945
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 2 NO PAT PDG CHICAGO VA.GROUSEMAN VT 19705
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN CHICAGO SWEATIN DESERT
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO 72CZ VT 17156
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO BELTDRIVE
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO CHARLES WAUGH VT 15069
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO STORMKING GTF 7/12/12 #1
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO STORMKING GTF 7/12/12 #2
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO TOPPOP101
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO 87HANDMEDOWN GTF 01/06/12
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO ALINC100 VT 19888
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO DAVIDB GTF 2/28/11
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 USA HEFTYLEFTY VINT FOR
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO RATCHETMAN GTF 9/29/12
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO SGT G GTF 12/17/13
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO SUNNYBEACH VT 16176
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 6SJ NO PAT PEN NO 60 CHICAGO CCFLN VT 9092
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 6SJ NO PAT PEN NO 60 CHICAGO KOKEN GTF 7/9/14
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 6 NO PAT PEN NO 60 CHICAGO RUSTY MUSKET VT 19162
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 2.5 NO SCHLLR STKR CHICAGO MAZAK MARK VT 1410
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO STRAIGHT NO 3 CHICAGO BALANE VT 17098
1/1/1941 1/1/1941 3 NO VISE NO 3 CHICAGO ORCHARDLANE
1/1/1941 3 NO CHICAGO PJHJKB WDT 140
2/1/1945 2/1/1945 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO BHH GTF 7/12/12
2/1/1945 2/1/1945 NO CHICAGO STORMKING GTF
4/1/1945 4/1/1945 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO CHRISMENKE
4/1/1945 4/1/1945 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO OAK__PARK GTF 7/13/14
4/1/1945 4/1/1945 4.5 NO CHICAGO KMSCOTT WDT 18
5/1/1945 5/1/1945 3 NO CURVED CHICAGO RICHMOND SCOTT
10/1/1945 10/1/1945 3.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO TOPPOP101
11/1/1945 11/1/1945 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO MARK IN INDIANA VT 9906
12/1/1945 12/1/1945 3 NO WILTON TOOL CHICAGO VERTGUY
1/1/1946 1/1/1946 5 NO CURVED CHICAGO BRTNUTHATCH GTF 7/21/12
2/1/1946 NO CURVED CHICAGO PJHJKB WDT 140
3/1/1946 3/1/1946 2 NO ALSO 7/48 CHICAGO DRIVESITFAR
3/1/1946 3/1/1946 5 NO CURVED CHICAGO BLUEBOLT
3/1/1946 3/1/1946 4 NO PAT PEN CHICAGO EXMAXIMA1
3/1/1946 3/1/1946 3 NO WILTON VISE NO 3 CHICAGO 72CZ VT 17156
3/1/1946 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO PJHJKB WDT 140
4/1/1946 4/1/1946 5 NO CURVED CHICAGO CRAFTSMAN C-SERIES VT 18187
4/1/1946 4/1/1946 3.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO HOT CHOP SHOP VT 10249
4/1/1946 4/1/1946 NINE4GMC
6/1/1946 6/1/1946 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO BIGCADDY VT 25902
6/1/1946 6/1/1946 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO R07DT4 VT 1738
7/1/1946 7/1/1946 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO KMSCOTT VT 24853
8/1/1946 8/1/1946 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO 454RAGTOP
8/1/1946 8/1/1946 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO EBAY END 2/28/15
8/1/1946 3.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO PJHJKB WDT 140
9/1/1946 9/1/1946 3 NO CURVED CHICAGO KC-STEVE GTF 3/7/11
9/1/1946 9/1/1946 3 NO TOOL CORP CHICAGO PIECEOFWORK VT 11815
10/1/1946 10/1/1946 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO EBAY END 3/1/15
11/1/1946 11/1/1946 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO RETROSMITH
11/1/1946 11/1/1946 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO ZOOMIEPORT VT 3333
12/1/1946 12/1/1946 3 NO PAT PEN NO 3 CHICAGO KMSCOTT WDT 46
12/1/1946 12/1/1946 NO CHICAGO KMSCOTT WDT 18
1/1/1947 1/1/1947 3 NO NO 3 CHICAGO JUNKTASTIC
1/1/1947 1/1/1947 3 NO STRAIGHT NO 3 CHICAGO EBAY END 12/15/14
2/1/1947 2/1/1947 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO EOCJASON VT 9197
2/1/1947 2/1/1947 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO EXMAXIMA1
2/1/1947 2/1/1947 4.5 NO CHICAGO KMSCOTT WDT 18
2/1/1947 2/1/1947 NO CHICAGO SOUTH PAW
3/1/1947 3/1/1947 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO 3855 VT 4541
3/1/1947 3/1/1947 3.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO BHFEAR VT 10187
4/1/1947 4/1/1947 3 NO CURVED CHICAGO OUTLAWMS
4/1/1947 4/1/1947 4 NO PAT PEN NO 4 CHICAGO 72CZ VT 16969
9/1/1947 9/1/1947 3 NO SCHILLER GARAGEGUY54
9/1/1948 9/1/1948 4.5P NO CURVED CHICAGO DJKEEV VT 3623
11/1/1948 11/1/1948 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO BIGCADDY VT 3506
12/1/1949 12/1/1949 3.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO FUDGE VT 378
1/1/1950 1/1/1950 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO BGOTT VT 380
1/1/1951 1/1/1951 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO COOPVA VT 12602
4/1/1951 4/1/1951 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO EBAY END 1/3/15
5/1/1951 5/1/1951 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO BLUEBOLT
5/1/1951 5/1/1951 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO JTD
9/1/1951 9/1/1951 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO 72CZ VT 18148
2/1/1952 2/1/1952 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO SUDZ VT 4488
6/1/1952 6/1/1952 4 NO CURVED CHICAGO DUCKSFACE VT 7988
3/1/1953 3/1/1953 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO DAWOOSTER GTF 8/278/12
3/1/1953 3/1/1953 NO CURVED CHICAGO PL SILVERADO
6/1/1953 6/1/1953 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO AUTOPTS GTF 8/27/12
6/1/1953 6/1/1953 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO CHIZ1180 VT 18801
8/1/1953 8/1/1953 3 NO CURVED CHICAGO BALANE VT 7857
12/1/1953 12/1/1953 4.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO DRIVESITFAR
6/30/1955 6/30/1952 YES CADET CHICAGO DRIVESITFAR WDT 42
6/30/1955 6/30/1952 4.5 YES CADET CHICAGO ORCHARDLANE GTF 9/28/14
12/31/1955 12/30/1952 4.5 YES CADET KMSCOTT WDT 83
12/31/1959 12/31/1954 5 YES CURVED 14 CHICAGO BLUEBOLT
12/31/1959 12/31/1954 4 YES CHICAGO RWHITE692 VT 304
6/30/1960 6/30/1960 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO EBAY END 12/21/14
6/30/1960 6/30/1960 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO EBAY END 12/26/14
11/30/1960 11/30/1960 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO JREB10
12/31/1960 12/31/1955 4.5P YES CURVED CHICAGO SWAN GTF 9/5/11
12/31/1960 12/31/1960 4.5 ? CURVED 14 CHICAGO DAVEFR VT 3858
12/31/1960 12/31/1955 YES CHICAGO 383 240Z
6/30/1961 6/30/1956 4.5 YES CURVED SCHILLER WRITE2DGRAY VT 5009
6/30/1961 6/30/1956 4.5 YES CHICAGO AUTOPTS
6/30/1961 6/30/1956 4.5 YES CHICAGO AUTOPTS
6/30/1961 6/30/1956 4.5 YES CHICAGO AUTOPTS
6/30/1961 6/30/1956 4 YES CHICAGO TEDSTERS
12/31/1961 12/31/1956 4 YES SCHILLER AUTOPTS VT 2537
6/30/1962 6/30/1959 5 YES CADET SCHILLER JAKER10 WDT 34
6/30/1962 6/30/1957 YES CURVED SCHILLER DMW56 VT 5587
6/30/1962 6/30/1957 3 YES CURVED SCHILLER TOPPOP101
6/30/1962 6/30/1957 4.5P YES DRIVESITFAR VT 1351
12/20/1962 12/20/1962 3 NO SCHILLER MCBROWNIE
6/30/1963 6/30/1963 3.5 ? CURVED SCHILLER GETRIDAONE VT 11924
12/30/1963 12/30/1963 4 NO CADET SCHILLER EBAY END 2/22/15
12/31/1963 4 ? CURVED SCHILLER DOCSMACHINE VT 2033
12/31/1963 12/31/1958 YES CURVED SCHILLER DOCSMACHINE VT 2536
12/31/1963 12/31/1958 4.5P YES CURVED SCHILLER TOPPOP101
12/31/1963 12/31/1958 4.5SJ YES CURVED SCHILLER UNASHAMEDLABORER VT 19769
6/30/1964 6/30/1959 3.5P YES CURVED CHICAGO GARAGEGUY54
6/30/1964 6/30/1964 3.5 ? CURVED SCHILLER GILBO GTF 3/7/11
6/30/1964 6/30/1964 2.5 NO CURVED CHICAGO TARNISHED VT 25497
12/30/1964 12/30/1964 3 NO CURVED SCHILLER TARNISHED VT 25795
6/30/1965 6/30/1965 3.5P ? CURVED SCHILLER BJ42LX VT 3615
12/30/1965 12/30/1965 2.5 NO CHICAGO SWEATIN DESERT
6/1/1966 6/1/1966 5 ? CURVED SCHILLER CHARLES WAUGH GTF 11/17/12
6/1/1967 6/1/1967 4 NO CURVED SCHILLER KF5LCH
8/1/1967 8/1/1967 4 NO SCHILLER MATTBAL
12/30/1967 12/30/1967 4 NO CADET SCHILLER J.T.D. WDT 109
12/30/1967 12/30/1967 2.5 NO KMSCOTT WDT 18
6/1/1968 1/6/1968 2 NO CHICAGO SWEATIN DESERT
6/30/1968 6/30/1968 4 ? CURVED SCHILLER TOOMANYTOYZ VT 4665
6/1/1969 6/1/1969 4 NO CURVED SCHILLER MCMLVIF100 VT 19158
6/1/1969 NO SCHILLER CHICKENFARMER WDT 35
6/1/1972 6/1/1972 6SJ NO PAT PEN NO 60 CHICAGO MATTYSDADDY
1/31/1973 1/31/1973 2 NO CURVED CHICAGO CKADAMS00 VT 6259
2/1/1977 2 NO KMSCOTT WDT 18
? ? 4 ? CURVED 14 CHICAGO SK8CRASH69 GTF 9/20/14

 

[bluebolt]

Well while not as good as the actual spreadsheet this can be something for you guys to argue about more LOL. Here is the legend.

A: DATE: Date stamped on slide, if bare (un-stamped) it has 1/1/1941 for Chicago vises and 1/1/1957 for Schiller Park vises.
Edit: I put all these with a month/day/year format even if they only had a month/year stamp so they could be sorted. If you see a date with "1" for the day that means it only had a month/year stamp.

B: ACTUAL STAMP: Exactly what is stamped on slide for a date.

C: DATE-GUAR: For those with GUAR EXP stamped on them this is the stamped date minus the guarantee length, 5 years for bullets, 3 years for Cadets.

D: JAW WIDTH: Width of jaws, if followed by a P it is a C series combo vise with pipe jaws, followed by SJ it's a swivel jaw.

E: GUAR EXP: Is it stamped with GUAR EXP, YES or NO

F: REMARKS: Markings on vise, Patent Pending, Wilton "straight" or "curved". 14 is the handful of vises with the 2 digit postal code.

G: LOCATION: Where it was made, Chicago or Schiller Park, note Heftylefty's very early vise only marked USA!

H: AVATAR: Who posted it notice I got some from Ebay.

I: THREAD: Exactly which thread it came from, VT is the big vise thread, WDT is this Wilton Date Thread, VIN FOR is the Vintage Tool Forum, GTF is the General Tool Forum. Ebay vises have the day they closed out.
.

 

[bluebolt]

After doing all this data research I am going to give my own conclusions. Notice I did not say FACTS. We may never know some information well enough to call it a fact.

1. I believe the early dated vises are when the START of the warranty period was. There are several reasons for this.

One thing to remember is we don't know exactly when in the manufacturing process the vise was stamped.
A. When it was first cast?
B. When it was machined?
C. When it was put on the "next batch out" shelf?
We have no idea if all the castings were machined right after casting or if some were put aside and may not be machined months or even years later. The baby bullets are the best example, there have been Chicago cast "baby's" found with date stampings all the way up to 1980! And there is a 6" swivel jaw Patent Pending vise with a 1972 date code!

A: You are not supposed to put Patent Pending on something until it has actually been applied for at the US Patent Office. So Patent Pending vises should not have a date before September 1946 (patent applied for 1 August 1941) if the stamped date was an expiration. And the patent was approved 3 March of 1942 so if the date stamp is an expiration all vises should be patent pending before a date stamp of 4/1947. But as seen by the data this is not the case.

B. After seeing all these vises the casting variations become obvious. The 4" is the most obvious example. You could write a LONG post just about the 4" casting variations. The most interesting 4" ones:

1. Pat Pending No 4 without[/B Chicago, only says USA. Possibly the first batch of Wilton's cast for sale to the government. After I started looking for these found a lot more, many on Ebay.
2. Pat Pending No 4 with Chicago. These are actually more common than you think. Saw plenty on Ebay.
3. The common Chicago USA with the Wilton being curved, no patent pending.
Point being lots of variations but the if the date stamps were date of expiration you would expect more separation between them in the dates in my opinion.

C. And the biggest issue in my opinion is the total lack of a bullet with a date stamp between 1954 and 1959. But you say Cadets have stamps in that time period. And that leads to my new theory!

CADET'S caused all the damn GUAR EXP trouble!
I don't know exactly what year Cadet vises came out but I suspect it is 1952 or maybe 1951 by the handful of dates I have seen. My theory is since they looked like Bullet's which had a 5 year guarantee Wilton may have from the start on the Cadet's (with their 3 year guarantee) put the Expiration date to eliminate confusion. ( but only made it worse for us years later LOL.) And then around 1954 they started doing the same to the bullets. And then in 1959ish they went back to having the "release for sale" date on the slide.

Now we may find some vises that change this theory. So keep your eyes open and post up!

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[McBrownie]

After doing all this data research I am going to give my own conclusions.
TO BE CONTINUED

BB,

Thank you for doing this research. I'm really enjoying reading your findings.

 

[PghJKB]

Can you post a picture of the other side of the early No 3? And what is the jaw width of the 2-46 date vise?

BB

Jaw size on unknown #2 (2/46) is 4 1/2 inches.

Here is the image of the #3. BTW, maybe the short handle can be used as a datable characteristic (short to long, long to short). My guess is that the original handle length was too short and Wilton increased the length after this one was produced.

I would say you are a very Busy Beaver, but all the effort you demonstrate here makes beavers look lazy. Outstanding!

JKB

 

[bluebolt]

BB,

Thank you for doing this research. I'm really enjoying reading your findings.

Your welcome. Run out of beer researching, switching to Jack Daniels and Coke LOL.

I was looking at the data and realized you have an odd ball with that 12/20/1962 date "Browns" vise LOL. Every other vise I have found so far with a "day" was the end of the month, 30 or 31.

Edit: As soon as I say this I find a vise with 12/1/1962 stamp on Ebay LOL.

 

[bluebolt]

If anyone wants to view the spreadsheet PM me your email address. I will give you read only access. I will give a handful of people "edit" access so maybe we can share some of the research pain LOL. You will need a google account.

Drivesitfar, I already gave you read only access since I had your email address. If you want it I will give you edit privilege in the near future.

 

[bluebolt]

PS thanks Outlaw for getting me to re-look at the Cadets. It may have provided some new clues to this whole mess!

 

[KMScott]

Out standing work Blue, wish I was closer to donate beer and spirits. Have to sit down a and really study the data. 56-58 just wonder what happened there, could it be moving manufacturing and setting up a new location? Again nice work.

 

[drivesitfar]

BB: thanks again and i did get your spread sheet. We should be able to make some good assumptions with all of this information. of course more data of wilton bullet slides with date stamps to add to the list, and maybe some more literature or Wilton employee posts would help.

ALL: i like BB's data and summery. the only thing i think I might add so far before analyzing more data is the slides without dates were Wilton's vises sold to Uncle Sam except for those with stamps worn off or replaced. All the government vises were produced from 1941-1945 instead of just 1/1/41.

it also looks like we are getting closer to solving the Guar Exp stamping and a good point was brought up that Wilton moved their factory to Schiller Park in the mid 50's.

one thing to point out that has been said that i agree with is Wilton might have sold Patent Pending and old style casts like the Chicago Baby bullets well after they were made just moving old inventory.

More to come as i read more and any other opinions are welcome for the discussion. of course we could use more Wilton vises with date stamps especially any with Guar EXP on them or any prior to 1945 would be great to add to our list.

 

[bluebolt]

There may not have been much of a problem with getting the new factory going. It was less than 13 miles from the old factory at 941 W. Wrightwood Avenue Chicago to the new factory at 9525 W. Irving Park Rd., Schiller Park, IL 60176. Wilton's official history says it was a transition and I think the new factory may have been at least partly operating for a while before they closed the old one.

From "Peter" on Practical Machinist website.

"I have several old wilton catalogs. I found this information in the 1956 catalog. List of patents:

131498 Wilton vise
2693727 Wiltomatic power bench vie
2708381, 2708382 Milomatic power machine vise
2430458 woodworker vise
2430458(?) Powrlock c-clamps
2354937,2359925 Powrarm work positioners
D-29738 Cadet mechanic vise
164143 Shop King vise
154001 Torco vise

Statement, a new plant opened in 1955 at Schiller Park, Chicago of 68,000 sqft
Later catalogs show a line of drill press and band saws.

In both 1950 & 1951 catalogs they boast of 40,000 sqft on Wrightwood, Chicago On a company letter, I see Alex J. Vogl was president in 1961 and he signed the correspondence in person.

 

[va.grouseman]

Bluebolt has already entered this vise, but I will post pics of on this thread anyway.
Baby Bullet, no date stamp on key or in keyway.







[/QUOTE]

 

[va.grouseman]

I don't know if this is compatible to this thread, cause technically it's not a bullet, but I can always pull it if not appropriate.

 

[bluebolt]

Hell yes it's appropriate! That vise is so obviously made by Wilton and is a bullet. I am adding it to the database! Is this the only Acme bullet that has shown up so far? Wish we had more info. Sounds like the new owners of Wilton as of 2014 are more interested in the history of the company, maybe they could shed some light.

How about posting a picture of the jaws?

What is the jaw width?

 

[va.grouseman]

Ok, here's one that I promised Autopts a year ago and Drives 6 months ago that I would get the date stamp for it.---Have dreaded it so bad, but today was so pretty and my back wasn't hurting so I needed to make it hurt again.---It had the old original factory grease that was dried up inside and the slide was real sluggish.---I knew I was eventually going to have wrestle the 800 if for no more reason than to lay the red grease to it.---So I killed 2 birds with one stone.---Here's the rub.---No date stamp on top of the keyway or underneath it.---Take a look.---800S,---220 lbs.,---NOS.

By the way, that red grease makes it crank with one finger.









Here I took a measurement on the spread at 13 1/2''.---But it cranked out at exactly 15''









Is there somewhere else that Wilton put date stamps on them?

One more question.---Is a Wilton swivel jaw considered a bullet?---I cranked the slide out on mine today and it had a date stamp of 64.---I will take pictures and post if it is considered a bullet.

 

[drivesitfar]

VA: thanks for spending the time and energy to take your 800 Wilton apart. i would have probably worn steel toed shoes so you are braver than i. pretty sure the only place that Wilton stamped their vises was on their slides. do you take all the slides off of your dynamic or was it just loose?

happy to hear you were able to get that big wilton back together. i actually took the screw out of the dynamic on my Wilton C2 to put it back together in pieces then screw the horseshoe retainer in after it was together.

of course the Swivel Jaw (SJ) bullets are counted so post up some pictures of yours when you feel up to it.

thanks for all your help