Running electric to pole barn

[FUGOTTI]

Recently finished my pole barn and now it's time to get electricity out there. I have a 200A main panel in the house and a 150a sub panel in the garage. The pull from the sub panel to the barn is going to be just shy of 200ft. I'm not sure where to go from here....the barn is 36x48, wold like a 220v compressor, lights, and outletlet's for miscellaneous power tools fireplace blower radio tv ect..
Is a pull from the 150a sub possible for this?
What wire/panel is needed?
Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[Bib Overalls]

The standard Garage Journal solution is a 90/100 amp run of 2-2-2-4 aluminum mobile feed trenched in. You can run from the main or the sub. In the barn use a 100 amp panel with a main breaker.

 

[Br@ndon]

I have basically same scenario as you. 50x36 barn approximately 190 feet from house. I have a 200 amp panel in house that I put a 100 amp breaker in. Ran the 2-2-2-4 aluminum to barn with a 100 amp main breaker there. Works great!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have basically same scenario as you. 50x36 barn approximately 190 feet from house. I have a 200 amp panel in house that I put a 100 amp breaker in. Ran the 2-2-2-4 aluminum to barn with a 100 amp main breaker there. Works great!

Umm, you shouldve used a 90a breaker in the main. #2 AL in your application is max 90a....And 190' is pushing it for #2 AL....

 

[Br@ndon]

Umm, you shouldve used a 90a breaker in the main. #2 AL in your application is max 90a....And 190' is pushing it for #2 AL....

Oops, that's correct. 90a is what I used.

 

[FUGOTTI]

Thank you for the replies, when shopping for the wire anything to keep in mind to make sure I'm buying a quality product?

 

[pattenp]

Just make sure the wire you buy is rated to be used inside the structure. People get sold URD cable for running feeders to a detached garage/shop to find out later it is to be used only outside of the structure. Cable such as Mobile Home Feeder (MHF) and THHN/THWN wire is allowed inside because the insulation is fire resistant. The MHF is direct bury but it's best to run it in conduit all the way from panel to panel. The MHF only needs to be in conduit where exposed above ground and where installed inside. The THHN/THWN needs to be in conduit the whole run, panel to panel. Also beware of the wire size needed for what amps you want because 200ft is going to have some voltage drop.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For 100a feed to the pole barn, youre gonna need at least 1/0 AL or #1 CU. You will need 4-wires and 2 ground rods...

As far as feeding from your garage subpanel, u need to make sure: a) theres room and b) whats the max breaker size that u can put in the panel.

For type of panel, a lot of people use the same brand as the other anels they have. This is helpful when u have a breaker go bad in one panel u can borrow one from the other panel.

Can u post some pics of your main service panel and your subpanel?

 

[CNGsaves]

Too little information . . . . there's more to the story that could cause you trouble. What LOAD does the HOUSE have by itself ?? Can the 200A service at house handle even 90A being drawn by the detached barn??

Do you have all electric house?? What is sq feet of house and Btu of furnace?? Is heat provided by propane or natural gas?? How about hot water heater, is it electric or NG/propane?? Clothes dryer also electric or NG/propane??

Let's SEE pics of the house panel . . . both Cover ON . . . and Cover OFF.

Estimate realistic load that house itself has on the 200A service.

Then the sparky's can give you best advice . . . with enough info. Good luck.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I don't know the wire size needed, but I have 100A in my 30x52 shop for the last 5 years and never thought I needed more. I have a Compressor, welder, mill, lathe, drill press, bench grinder, etc.

if you are the only one in there you can't possibly need to run everything at once, so you should be fine.

Chris

 

[barnjunkie]

Your first question about "whether or not to run a feeder from the sub-panel" - I think you need to look at the breaker in the 200 amp main before going any further. Most 200amp panels will have a maximum size breaker to feed sub-panels- usually 100 or 125. If it is a smaller size breaker, you would not have enough amperage left to run 100 amps to your pole barn from the sub.
I think it would benefit you to go through all of the existing loads on the sub-panel before making any plans to use it to feed your barn.
It really sounds like you are at maximum for your 200amp service.

 

[FUGOTTI]

Here's the main

 

[FUGOTTI]

 

[FUGOTTI]

and this is the sub, the sub only powers the garage and addition which is outlets and lights, the dual breaker was for hottub but we got rid of that

 

[FUGOTTI]

here's the main with cover on, we have an electric hot water heater on 220v, range and dryer are both LP

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Are u sure this is the main? It has 4 wires. What is before this? Just a meter, or a meter AND a disconnect? If just a meter, this panel u have picture should be 3 wire with a bonded neutral.

 

[Aceman]

He must have a metermain Wylie, because I don't see the 150A subpanel feed out of the main (sub)panel.

 

[FUGOTTI]

there is a junction box in the basement, haven't looked in there yet, can pop that open and post pictures after I get home from work

 

[pattenp]

Also take a look at the meter outside of the house there may be a panel/door that contains the main disconnect.

 

[FUGOTTI]

so it looks like the main sits into 2 panels so I don't have a Sub panel then?

 

[FUGOTTI]

http://s21.postimg.org/tc96hb7rr/20150312_175705.jpg

 

[FUGOTTI]

 

[Aceman]

You opened a can of worms now....

What size is the SER cable from the outside metermain to the j-box?

What size is the SER cable from the j-box to the 200A panel?

What size is the SER cable from the j-box to the 150A panel?

Roughly how long is the cable from the j-box to the 150A panel?

The wire size will be printed on the gray cable sheath. For example, 4/0 3C. AL SER...

 

[FUGOTTI]

Its 3CDR AWG 4/0 1 CDR AWG 2/0 from meter main to jbox and It's TYPE SE CABLE STYLE R XHHW-2 600v CDRS 4/0 from jbox to each panel, and about a 10ft run from jbox to 150a panel

 

[Badasssapper67]

I think my brain just melted.......

 

[barnjunkie]

That is a creative way to feed two panels. Not exactly what I would do, but... if they were spliced properly, it is probably not a code violation.
From what I can tell, it looks like you have two main panels - not a main and a sub
Considering what you have there already, I'd just make the run from the garage panel and not worry about it.

You only have a 200amp meter base, so the splice box was an afterthought by a previous owner I 'm guessing. If it was really done well, they would have added a 320a meter base and fed the other panel without the splice (jbox). Then you would have the correct feed for your load.

I keep forgetting that it costs too much money to do things correctly, so just wing it and hope the meter don't explode.

 

[Redwolf947]

Wow!

 

[pattenp]

The 2 panels are considered sub-panels because they are fed after the first disconnect which is outside by the meter. Looks to me they are fed with 4 wires. Can't say the junction box was the best way but I think it's okay with the 4/0 wire and with the lengths being 10ft or less.

 

[pattenp]

You opened a can of worms now....

What size is the SER cable from the outside metermain to the j-box?

What size is the SER cable from the j-box to the 200A panel?

What size is the SER cable from the j-box to the 150A panel?

Roughly how long is the cable from the j-box to the 150A panel?

The wire size will be printed on the gray cable sheath. For example, 4/0 3C. AL SER...

That's funny... the jbox looks like a can of worms.

 

[C96]

The 2 panels are considered sub-panels because they are fed after the first disconnect which is outside by the meter.

Correct, but I think maybe the one panel has a neutral bar that is bonded to the can via the bonding screw that was not removed. Not totally sure though because it’s hard to tell do to quality of pictures. Top pic left side neutral bar looks to have screw, right side no screw?

Bottom pic panel no bonding screw.

What do you think?

 

[pattenp]

I see 2 separate ground bars mounted directly to the panels. Where you labeled "screw" "no screw" are the rivet points for the neutral bar mount. On the first picture the neutral bars are connected together by a strap that goes behind the lugs. The second picture the neutral bars are connected together by the round bar across the front. I see no bonding of the neutral bars to the panel.

 

[Aceman]

I couldn't tell you on the bonding screw, I use Sq D panels so far and few between I don't remember which hole takes the bonding screw.

That's funny... the jbox looks like a can of worms.

That is a terrible way to power two panels, no doubt about it. I've never seen anyone splice an SER feeder midspan to power panels that way.

I think most electricians would of just used a 400A metermain with a breaker for each panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What a fricken MESS!

If it were mine, i would do as Aceman said. Or change out the disconnect below the meter pan for a 2 space disconnect and rerun the cable to the panels directly!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP what did u end up doing?