Building 30 x 36 Garage and Shop Space

[ICT_Kevin]

Are you able to show pictures of your old garage after your buddy re-purposed it? It would be cool to see what ever became of it.

I really like the garage you built. The quality of planning and follow through is very impressive. How much did it cost to have that garage designed and built? That is pretty much what I would like to build/have built at some point.

What is your profession? Do you do architectural type work? Very impressive, I like it a lot.

Thank you. I'm an engineer, so design and drafting is my regular gig. I do aircraft propellers for McCauley. It's not quite the same as architecture, but there is a whole lot in common. I have about a dozen architectural drafting and structures books that I've read and absorbed over a number of years.

The garage is about $80k for 1600 square feet. That makes it $50 per square foot with a lot of DIY finishing and no finished ceiling or paint yet downstairs. It would have been 25% more if I had other people do all the planning, detail chasing, and finishing.

For the old garage, he tossed a lot of the iffy lumber, and a lot of pieces got cut shorter during dis-assembly. He won't be able to re-assemble it in the same form. I haven't heard if he's built the large tool shed he planned from the remainders yet. The siding was going to be used on his house because it matched, and his needed replacement in a few areas. I'd say only half the siding was salvageable anyway after removal.

 

[Autorotica]

Hey Chris. I used a clear sealer from home depot. It's Behr Concrete and Masonry Waterproofer and Protector, #980. Two coats will be about 5 gallons on 1080 sft by the time I finish. It's really thin and runny, soaks into the pores of the concrete to keep water from seeping up from below. We've had good luck with it in a shop space that gets moisture both from above and below. When it's on, you almost can't see it. It won't do the spotless glamor look like an epoxy paint, but it won't peel with moisture or burn with welding or grinding.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BEHR-Premium-1-gal-Protector-and-Waterproofer-98001/100179930

The aircraft experimental departments do a similar look for floors here. Waxed concrete look. Same basic rationale I think. Coated so messes don't stick as bad, but no paint to be easily marred by welding, grinding, spills, or furniture moving tracks.

>Quick follow note, it really does look like naked concrete after this sealer. If you wanta gloss or wax look, you'll need something else<

Thanks again Kevin. In your experience, does that product resist oils and greases? My space isnt all that concerned with pretty. Its for working space.

Chris

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Thanks again Kevin. In your experience, does that product resist oils and greases? My space isnt all that concerned with pretty. Its for working space.

Chris

I'd say it reduces the amount of penetration, but it will stain. I think a lot of its real purpose is to prevent water from seeping up through the slab, making fine concrete dust form on the top. I can say it works well for this purpose at Dad's shop space. He tried epoxy paint (etched it like you should), but water attack keeps peeling it, and there's a lot of concrete dust at the peeled areas on that side. The clear sealed side of the shop doesn't peel or powder itself. I'd say it's been less impressive but more durable.

If you're really concerned about keeping oil stains out, you may want a different product, or layer over it with something made to maintain a wet look. Home depot sells a sister product by that description. I might yet add something like that. One guy recommended I look into Deco Shine. I haven't gone after any so far. The trade is that an easy to clean surface is also a bit slipperier. I'm afraid I haven't made a real oil spill in my other shop space to see how easy it comes up with this stuff. I don't expect this to keep a pristine look alone though. If it looks rough or naked, oil can get in.

I hope that helps ~ Kevin

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I'm working shop layout and daydreaming about lifts. I have enough gear to fill my shop area. The bridgeport may stay off-site to save space.


The plan I've had in mind for a while is like this. It would store 2 cars in line with my daily driver, and a 3rd in the project stall. I could see us having opportunity for 3 spare cars, but not sure I want to maintain that many under-used vehicles.


I think it might be nicer to keep it down to 2 toy cars and have another 10x10 available for shop space. A classic and a custom creation would suit me. I may look into raising the garage door tracks to make this fit nicer. It's moot until we really want to tuck in a second spare car.

 

[Autorotica]

I'd say it reduces the amount of penetration, but it will stain. I think a lot of its real purpose is to prevent water from seeping up through the slab, making fine concrete dust form on the top. I can say it works well for this purpose at Dad's shop space.

If you're really concerned about keeping oil stains out, you may want a different product, or layer over it with something made to maintain a wet look. Home depot sells a sister product by that description. I might yet add something like that. One guy recommended I look into Deco Shine. I haven't gone after any so far. The trade is that an easy to clean surface is also a bit slipperier. I'm afraid I haven't made a real oil spill in my other shop space to see how easy it comes up with this stuff. I don't expect this to keep a pristine look alone though. If it looks rough or naked, oil can get in.

I hope that helps ~ Kevin

Thanks again Kevin, your input is appreciated. I am more interested in reducing dusting and oil penetration. I will look into other products as you suggested.

Chris

 

[Model A Fan]

Thanks for the information. I hope to one day be able to get something like that built for my own projects.

 

[ADSR]

love the build! looks fantastic!

 

[Hawkerpilot05]

I was curious if you don't mind, what are the inside dimensions from wall to wall. I ask because my lot is restricted to 1000 square feet but it doesn't have to be the outside dimension, it can be from the inside. This garage is exactly like what I want yo build but am limited to 1000 square feet.

Sent from infinity and beyond.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I was curious if you don't mind, what are the inside dimensions from wall to wall. I ask because my lot is restricted to 1000 square feet but it doesn't have to be the outside dimension, it can be from the inside. This garage is exactly like what I want yo build but am limited to 1000 square feet.

Sent from infinity and beyond.

If you're clever, you could make that work. We lost about 9 inches on the outside plan dimensions, so 29.25 x 35.25 = 1031 sft inside. If you drop it to 30 x 35, inside dimension would be about 1001 sft. Use 2x6 framing and the inside would come under. If it's going to be critical and get checked, measure the concrete forms before they pour, and make sure the framing goes in right. If you take 2 foot off width or depth, you wouldn't need extreme measures.

 

[msgross]

I was curious if you don't mind, what are the inside dimensions from wall to wall. I ask because my lot is restricted to 1000 square feet but it doesn't have to be the outside dimension, it can be from the inside. This garage is exactly like what I want yo build but am limited to 1000 square feet.

Sent from infinity and beyond.

I made mine 28x35.5 since anything over 1,000sqft (outside dimension) required a full building permit in my township. Off that they mesure inside footage since all appriasers, real estate agents and inspector in my area measure outside dimensions.

 

[Hawkerpilot05]

If you're clever, you could make that work. We lost about 9 inches on the outside plan dimensions, so 29.25 x 35.25 = 1031 sft inside. If you drop it to 30 x 35, inside dimension would be about 1001 sft. Use 2x6 framing and the inside would come under. If it's going to be critical and get checked, measure the concrete forms before they pour, and make sure the framing goes in right. If you take 2 foot off width or depth, you wouldn't need extreme measures.

Thanks for the reply. Will take this into consideration when figuring out my build.

Sent from infinity and beyond.

 

[Ferrari-lover]

Nice build!

 

[ICT_Kevin]

More time, more progress. I got about half my shop home, and a fair bit of shelving up. More stuff to organize and set to final homes now that I have good places for them.

The problem: 10 x 18 of stuff covering the shed area and part of my shop space.


I got shelving at Menards. Buying used pallet rack like the big boxes use to sell their wares was the plan. Used sources dried up on the size I needed, so I spent similar and got medium duty new stuff. Planning bottom shelf for tools, 2nd for common use stuff, 3rd for raw materials, and misc up top. A tire rack for the wall is in the plan sometime.


The racer is home. There's space to walk around it. The fire cabinet and Strong Hold locker were from the Boeing auction when they left town. Spirit assumed their local plant and still builds large fuselage sections.


Finished a honey-do project too. I did the cutout and finished the bench with a friend. My sister in law did the painting.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I got out to the old shop and brought home another chest. The red one was an estate sale find. The lower chest is the same size and nearly the same drawers as the black one I bought new.


It's a bit sad moving out of the old shop. I only set it up a couple years ago. It's easy to get spoiled with the space for a setup like this. We thought I'd be there longer, but home is 30 minutes closer. It's an eternity with an average break of 90 minutes from kids. Welding bench with aluminum top at left, work bench at right, rolling cart for vises and stuff left of the mill, and a 10 inch 1948 Logan 820 lathe across from the 1976 Bridgeport Series 1 with a 1990-ish J2 variable speed head and a DRO.


It was a main work aisle, and my weld prep tools went into an overflow on the back of the lathe and bench.


I'll show my vise bench since it got built around the time I set the shop up that way. It has a 1" thick steel top that I bought at a scrap place. Scrap is about 1/4 new steel price, so you can get a 1/4 inch top that you can be rough on, or a 1" top that you can outright abuse. It's also too heavy to tip over by accident. The drawers are on 135 lb slides. I may add a third drawer still. I need to make pockets to regiment what tools live there.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Little things keep coming. I have a plan for my shelving. I'll use the top cubbies and tube spaces for lumber and metals storage. Welding gear head high, and maybe keep part of that same level open for a computer perch.


Phase 1 shelving mods complete.


Space for more grinders and spare wheels.


I also hung a tennis ball parking target for my wife. The CX-5 is several feet longer than my Miata, and it's nice to get position right.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I got more racks built into the shelving. Lumber is moving out of the basement, and steel is coming home from my old shop.


We're having about 4-5 days of rain each week, so we're grading the back yard around the garage with a big tiller, shovels, and rakes.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I have a new insulation challenge for GJ suggestions. The first pic shows sheet insulation I installed this evening where the back of the garage foundation is exposed about 20 inches above grade. It's 2" thick, 11 inches tall, and the bottom stops about 4" above existing grade. The ground is dug out adjacent so we can carry an overlap piece a little way underground.



The challenge is that if I put the overlap piece up tight to the top piece, it'll be virtually impossible to fill the irregular space between the foundation and the lower foam sheet. Should I let it sit out an inch or two so I can fill into the slot? I can't think of another good way. I think it needs to be filled solid for support. We have clay soil, so everything is going to be strained over the years. I want the foundation to have lateral support. Any other suggestions?

 

[davegonz]

Looks great, Kevin. Mine will be a smaller (28x32) version of yours.

Can you tell me why did you go with OSB instead of sheetrock in the garage area? I guess it will hold up better and you can screw stuff in easier. Just asking because I might do the same

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Can you tell me why did you go with OSB instead of sheetrock in the garage area? I guess it will hold up better and you can screw stuff in easier. Just asking because I might do the same

Thanks Davegonz. I figured the osb would hold more weight and allow more freedom hanging things. Sheetrock anchors do reasonably well, but they seem to tear out under repeated use. I really don't like sheetrock in general.

In Kansas, we also get high winds with storms. Sheeting both sides of the wall means it'll take that much more before the garage self-flattens. We have a lot of absent wall on the front where the big doors are. Some extra is welcome there especially. The day I want a nice smooth wall to paint, it'll be less nice. A friend who maintains a frat house says you can mud and sand an osb wall to look like sheetrock, but harder to punch a hole in.

Kevin

 

[jbmatth]

Kevin,
I like that you have decided to use this smaller shop in your back yard rather than keep going to the bigger one that would limit family time, that is very noble. I am not too far from you and we also have lots of home the style of yours in this area. Have you made any progress on the racer? I've always wanted something like that but the dif. was always the part I couldn't find for a reasonable price.
JB

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Kevin,
I like that you have decided to use this smaller shop in your back yard rather than keep going to the bigger one that would limit family time, that is very noble. I am not too far from you and we also have lots of home the style of yours in this area. Have you made any progress on the racer? I've always wanted something like that but the dif. was always the part I couldn't find for a reasonable price.
JB

Thanks JB. It seemed like the best option, and if I have my tools nearby, I'll be a happy guy. I have modest progress on the racer, but I expect to pick up speed in the spring. The steering column is back in with a new cross-bar that gives me a lot more knee space. I'm about to buy a newer engine, a Kawasaki ZX12R. I need to make sure it drops in right, but scouting measurements say it should fit. I didn't like the cost on differentials I could buy either. This is my plan. It's a Miata core (pre-2005 type) that I'm going to put into a custom chain-driven housing. I have a pair of sealed cartridge bearings to support it. I'll machine and weld it myself.



Since I'm sharing, I can't resist posting my latest unrelated project. We did a custom propeller for One Moment Air Racing. The #30 took 3rd place in the Sport Class Gold Race at Reno yesterday. We're really stoked. A friend and I designed the blades, and our group designed the assembly. It's a bit of good exposure for McCauley Blackworks.

 

[jbmatth]

That is too cool to have a part you've designed not only being used, but also being use competitively and successfully. My position as an engineer doesn't have much design in it and not many exciting moments in it like that and no one outside of here will ever see them in use. I'll have to wait around and see what you come up with on the dif as that sounds like a good idea and one I never really though about at the time as I didn't have really any tools outside of a welder at the time.
JB

 

[wrenchmaster]

Impressive!!

If I may ask, you stated 80K to build this garage. Do you have a separate total for materials only? I was just trying to get an estimate of what it would have cost had you built it yourself.

Thanks
Charlie

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Impressive!!

If I may ask, you stated 80K to build this garage. Do you have a separate total for materials only? I was just trying to get an estimate of what it would have cost had you built it yourself.

Thanks
Charlie

Hi Charlie. Sorry I missed your post a couple months ago. A quick look has about $10,000 labor in tree removal, framing,siding, roofing, and sheetrock. I don't have separate line items for plumbing, electrical, or concrete, but I'd venture $4,000 for plumbing and electrical labor. I did something in the $5,000-$10,000 range in labor myself with framing details, downstairs insulation, applying internal osb downstairs, exterior paint, interior trim, interior paint,bath floor, etc. So, that puts it around $65k materials. If I had a big truck and trailer, maybe I'd do better on materials since they boil in delivery.

The $5k for framing was well worth it for us. The $1k for roofing labor was an even better deal. The pitch is pretty high for a rookie roofer. It would be a lot more expensive to fall.

Kevin

 

[wrenchmaster]

Sorry, I just noticed your reply.

I haven't pulled the plug yet.

I'm not sure how you came to 65K

Can you explain?

Thanks

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I'm not sure how you came to 65K

Can you explain?

Hey Charlie. To estimate materials, I worked down from what I paid in total. There were a few large labor items like the framing and sheetrock upstairs. For plumbing and electrical, I estimated about half as labor. I haven't tried to estimate concrete labor since I don't know enough. If I did absolutely everything that I have delusions of ability in, I could have brought the total down to $65k, rather than $80k it did cost us. You might do a bit better yet if you are up to concrete. I think it would have been $90k, give or take, if I had hired people to do all the insulation, paint, and finishing work that I did.

I guess I'm due to take some fresh photos and update this thing. I got the ZX12R engine for the racer, and I've done a few small projects over the winter.

 

[jbmatth]

Yes please do, I'm interested to see what all you have going on there now that you've been working in it for a while now. I'm only about an hour south of you on I-35 just inside Ok. I'd love to check out your shop sometime if you wouldn't mind.
JB

 

[zmotorsports]

Home workshop turned out extremely nice.

I was in a similar situation back when my wife and I first purchased our home in 1991. My workshop was at my parents farm about a 25 minute drive. I had to justify enough time to be away from home and after saving for four years we were able to build my shop in the backyard.

That was my ultimate goal as well because I could pick up my son from the sitter (and then school) when I got off earlier in the afternoon and have time to spend with him working in the shop until my wife got home each evening. I think it really helped our father/son bond.

I also HATED having to leave home to go to the shop to work and not having any of my tools/equipment at home. Now I have absolutely everything I need at my home. I can walk right out in the back yard to the shop.

Maybe I missed it but have you moved the lathe, mill and the rest of your equipment to the new home shop yet?

Mike.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Last summer and fall were busy. The summer was spent getting the back yard back together for my wife. I estimated 16 tons of dirt, gravel, sand, railroad ties, and brick before we laid sod.


We recessed the ground about 6-7 inches to prep and re-lay our brick patio. When we laid sod to the edges, it added about another inch.


We laid a path south of the house a few years ago, but we had to pull up the last stretch around back to re-do a sewer line. Now it's back with a new seating area and a wider stretch area before that.


Late October, a used flat screen came to us for cheap, so I picked a spot for it in the attic. The bathroom's pocket door structure was a bit iffy to support the weight, so I took the opportunity to reinforce and to make a cable chase.


It made a good training project for me. This is my first sheet rock job.


I commented to my buddy at work that it was a small miracle - the TV mount and sheet rock job was almost done and roughly on schedule. Impossible! I took this photo around midnight Friday.


The next morning, I slipped on the stairs in the house. My left elbow took it worst. The elbow hinge joint broke off my ulna, and my muscles pulled the bone around the corner into a big lump. The break is visible as a fine line between and across the screws in the right view below. I had some quality time in the hospital learning about pain meds, and a surgeon put the joint back together. The plates and screws are stainless. I've lost a few degrees of extension, and the arm muscles are still weak 4 months later, but life is basically back to normal.


Most of my projects have been in the garage instead of on it since the slip. I had 3 months of one-arm action. I'm getting ready to start attic built-ins soon though. I'm planning a reading nook with a full size mattress to double as a guest bed, and starting on built-in book cases and display cases.

 

[ADSR]

oh man! that *****. i'm glad you're feeling a bit better now.

 

[BRZCory]

Well hey, since you've got nothing better to do than sit around typing...

How about a build thread on the project car? I'm starting my path down tube-frame-racer sometime in the next six months, and would be curious what all went into it. I know you're an engineer, so the chassis design seems like it should be well thought-out, but the specifics of how you bent the tubes and whatnot would be handy!

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Maybe I will put something together on the car, Cory. It's really not an engineering masterpiece. The rookie build on anything will have rough spots. The chassis was inspired by the Ariel Atom for style, but the SL300 or Maserati Birdcage for concept. The triangulated side frames carry torsion stiffness around the cockpit, and the outer tube is 20" typical car bumper height by the opening. The only real defense against an SUV is to dodge.

I built a few photogenic projects for the boys and a nephew. These are plywood with 1/2" inch fuselages, 3/8" wings, and 1/4" tail surfaces. The dihedral on the wings requires a finger joint, but it really makes them look better. Spray paint, paint pens, and sharpie for markings. The Corsair is marked as one my nephew's great grandpa flew.








Besides the fun stuff, I built the boys a kid height work bench. The top is 1/8 inch steel so they can be hard on it. It's intentionally heavy to be harder to tip over.


I also found a bigger vise for mine. It came from a local foundry that recently closed. My suspicion is that people are designing for cnc machining more often than casting now. I kinda hate to demote the vise I have. It's already mounted and it's been good for everything so far. The bullet vise really moves nice though, despite the grime.


The other completed side project is a new top for an old metal desk. I got an old tanker desk with a linoleum top. A piece of glass was fused on top and they didn't survive separation. Most folks here put hard formica tops on these when the linoleum dies. I wanted this one to have an original style writing surface. Green Building Supply sells linoleum in 16 colors in reasonable size pieces and prices. I laid it like a vinyl floor. I should take a fresh photo without the tape goo sometime. WD-40 and fine steel wool took it right off.


The color is a pretty good match for a 50 year age difference.


Then I found a similar color typewriter desk with a lowered left side. Now I have desks for both boys to agonize over homework in a few years.


That's most of the good project photos over the winter. I stumbled onto this cool unrelated photo as I was digging around. The Kansas Aviation Museum in Wichita had a neat day last year with most of their planes open to climb through. This is looking forward in a retired refuelling tanker. The light and reflective surfaces really pop.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I'm almost caught up on house and garage photos. It's been a nice spring here - starting in February this time. The path around the house is complete again, after 3 or 4 years of missing the rear stretch. Sewer replacements trump patios. The beveled edges on the bricks really look good to us.









A week after these photos, the weather changed for one night. This is a pear tree with white blooms, and white snow.


Our neighbors' red bud and maple have come out early too.


Little man knows that you don't waste good snowballs. I love 3 yr olds.

 

[ICT_Kevin]

Hobbies continue. I got hooked on the idea of a sit/stand desk for work. It was hard to imagine paying $500 for an Ergotron Workfit S or Humanscale Quick Stand. Since I have a welder and foolish ambition, I put around $200 into building my own. I might not have, if I could have gone back at the 2/3 point.

The trolley slides on 4 cylindrical plastic bushings from McMaster-Carr. The slide rails are 1" steel tubing left over from the racer's frame. The keyboard tray will droop until it hits the end of the slot in the stop links. That lets me keep lowering the monitors when the keyboard hits the desk. I would have been fine without that feature, based on using it several weeks. There is a pitch adjustment screw for monitor tilt. An inexpensive 50 lb gas strut lifts the trolley with the monitors and keyboard. 10 lb of ballast improves the overall balance. Lifting the weight of the keyboard tray causes it to climb to the top. Pushing down at the base of the trolley takes it back down. Weight balance and friction hold it wherever it is placed.



Several weeks in, I stand at the desk about 3 hours out of 8. It helps my back feel better, and it relieves a bit of restlessness. It's also nice when I need to look at details on-screen with a co-worker. Without chairs in the way, we can get closer to the screen without invading personal space bubbles in an awkward way. Having two chairs requires one or both persons be an additional 18-24 inches behind normal work position. Two people standing either side of center can get much closer to the display. I do find sitting more comfortable when I do the most demanding mental tasks. My concentration and focus routine has been done mostly sitting for the last 20 years, so there is something about it that helps get me into the right mode.

 

[msgross]

I have one of those stand up / sit down desks... I like it...

You should restore that old vise, plenty of threads on here about them. I think they are worth a pretty penny too!

 

[ICT_Kevin]

I have one of those stand up / sit down desks... I like it...

You should restore that old vise, plenty of threads on here about them. I think they are worth a pretty penny too!

The sit/stand rig is nice. I'm glad I built it. If I build a second one, I have some ideas to reduce the labor and effort in it. Engineering becomes a lifestyle sometimes.

You're right about the vise. It's quite a tool and deserves some attention. It may lay in wait a while yet. The green Menards store brand vise hasn't failed me on a job yet, and I'm trying to focus time on the racer next. I've figured a rough plan on the engine's exhaust header, so I need to figure out the engine mounts.

 

[prairieman]

hello Kevin.

I am moving back to Wichita where we lived from 2006 - 2012. The company I work for - transferred me to OKC in 2012, and now are sending me back to Wichita. If I can't find a home with a separate garage, will purchase a place that I can construct a proper shop. I am working through the Wichita-Sedgwick county zoning code and am not finding answers to all of my questions. Sending you a private message with my contact information, hoping you reply back.

Have a great day !
Brad

 

[ICT_Kevin]

hello Kevin.

I am moving back to Wichita where we lived from 2006 - 2012. The company I work for - transferred me to OKC in 2012, and now are sending me back to Wichita. If I can't find a home with a separate garage, will purchase a place that I can construct a proper shop. I am working through the Wichita-Sedgwick county zoning code and am not finding answers to all of my questions. Sending you a private message with my contact information, hoping you reply back.

Have a great day !
Brad

Hey Brad. I sent a direct note with a lot more, but the short version on zoning resources is to find your zoning region at this first link, and look up the limits at the second link. Besides looking at the limits for your zoning type, be sure to look at the accessory structure limits (page 168 to 172). If you make your garage an accessory structure, you can build closer to the property edges. You can't build quite as large, but my 1.5 story was no problem under those rules. Happy Hunting.

Wichita Zoning Map
Wichita Zoning Code

 

[msgross]

That's most of the good project photos over the winter. I stumbled onto this cool unrelated photo as I was digging around. The Kansas Aviation Museum in Wichita had a neat day last year with most of their planes open to climb through. This is looking forward in a retired refuelling tanker. The light and reflective surfaces really pop.

I just flew to Estonia on a refueling tanker, they still have the shiny floors but that one is nicer than ours was. We have plywood boxes down the center for luggage.