Well....it's boiling down to a piecemeal construction

[Kevin54]

I never had this problem. I go out and find the best contractor for what I want done. Then I tell him exactly what I want. Then I pay him what he asks without trying to cut his bid down. I have never failed to have a contractor exceed my expectations using this method, and to be quite honest 6 months to a year after I usually don't even remember exactly what it cost.

It always tickles me when someone gets multiple bids, then goes with the lowball bidder, then picks the low ball bid apart to make it even cheaper. Then complains how unreliable the guy is an what ****** work the guy does. This happens a lot.

Chris

Shadow......don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to lowball anyone if this is directed at me. I'm willing to pay, but I'm not willing to get screwed.

And as I said before, just trying to get a price from anyone around here is like trying to pull fangs out of a pissed Cobra snake. The last contractor I spoke with the other evening on the phone has had 4 months to get me a price. And no, because he doesn't want to get stuck holding the bill for lumber, he wants me to buy the materials and he will supply the labor and bid it as such. But he has yet to even give me a price, and I again was told by him, for like the 5th time over a 4 month period, I'll have it to you on Friday. Now here it is Saturday evening. I can't even get a damn price out of them.

I already know in a ballpark figure what materials are going to cost. I figured it up the other evening in a couple of hours by just getting online with the local lumberyards or box stores. For complete materials, and I figured higher than actual materials, I was at $18,000 and some coin. The contractor that wants to charge me $55,000 told me that the LUMBER ONLY was $18,500 and that didn't include concrete, foundation, roofing, or labor. I'm not going to be raped by someone that wants to make a years wages in one shot.

I'm not new to construction, and anyone at anytime can come and look at what I have built in the past. Just like the last contractor I spoke with.....he doesn't want to be stuck with material cost. He's a contractor for Christ sake. I have the money sitting in the bank, waiting to write a check. But I have had more ******** excuses from contractors that it is beyond funny. The one contractor, after almost three months, said he felt bad and wanted to stop over. He apologized and after three months said he would work me up a price. Right before the contractor handed me the quote, which was close to the 4 month period, he is here for a couple of hours telling me about his family problems, telling me about his money problems, then hands me the quote. I finally told him that I was not interested due to his lack of interest, but gave him some advice that if he is going to quote a job for someone, DO NOT sit there telling them about your financial woes. That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Like I said......I'm not waiting on the lowest offer to come in then hire them, but I'm also not going to piss away thousands to someone that thinks they can take advantage of me. I know what the price should be, and I know what I want as far as quality. And what I want done, DOES NOT include any electric, insulation, drywall, ceiling. None of that. I want a shell, and a roof, finished on the outside, sitting on a foundation and a floor. 28'x30' with the gable roof tied in, and 12' walls. And a very plain and simple 7' x 24' bumpout on the side with 8' walls, and a couple of 24' standard trusses.

And every location differs as far as price, so what some may deem as a cheap price, may very well be extraordinarily high around here. The issue is, I either can't get a price or get strung out forever, I get a slacker that whines about his money situation and his family situation, or I get a shithead that thinks he can **** my bank account. So I have two more I am going to talk two. One is supposed to get back with me this weekend, and the other is my concrete guy that wants to bid the complete job, which so far, I may just go with him and tell everyone else to **** off. Hell, the one contractor is going to build 12' walls using 2x4's, which I'm fairly certain doesn't meet code, and I didn't want 2x4 walls which I told him up front. I want 2x6 walls whether the ceiling height is 12' or 8'.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Shadow......don't get me wrong, I'm not looking to lowball anyone if this is directed at me. I'm willing to pay, but I'm not willing to get screwed.

And as I said before, just trying to get a price from anyone around here is like trying to pull fangs out of a pissed Cobra snake. The last contractor I spoke with the other evening on the phone has had 4 months to get me a price. And no, because he doesn't want to get stuck holding the bill for lumber, he wants me to buy the materials and he will supply the labor and bid it as such. But he has yet to even give me a price, and I again was told by him, for like the 5th time over a 4 month period, I'll have it to you on Friday. Now here it is Saturday evening. I can't even get a damn price out of them.

I already know in a ballpark figure what materials are going to cost. I figured it up the other evening in a couple of hours by just getting online with the local lumberyards or box stores. For complete materials, and I figured higher than actual materials, I was at $18,000 and some coin. The contractor that wants to charge me $55,000 told me that the LUMBER ONLY was $18,500 and that didn't include concrete, foundation, roofing, or labor. I'm not going to be raped by someone that wants to make a years wages in one shot.

I'm not new to construction, and anyone at anytime can come and look at what I have built in the past. Just like the last contractor I spoke with.....he doesn't want to be stuck with material cost. He's a contractor for Christ sake. I have the money sitting in the bank, waiting to write a check. But I have had more ******** excuses from contractors that it is beyond funny. The one contractor, after almost three months, said he felt bad and wanted to stop over. He apologized and after three months said he would work me up a price. Right before the contractor handed me the quote, which was close to the 4 month period, he is here for a couple of hours telling me about his family problems, telling me about his money problems, then hands me the quote. I finally told him that I was not interested due to his lack of interest, but gave him some advice that if he is going to quote a job for someone, DO NOT sit there telling them about your financial woes. That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Like I said......I'm not waiting on the lowest offer to come in then hire them, but I'm also not going to piss away thousands to someone that thinks they can take advantage of me. I know what the price should be, and I know what I want as far as quality. And what I want done, DOES NOT include any electric, insulation, drywall, ceiling. None of that. I want a shell, and a roof, finished on the outside, sitting on a foundation and a floor. 28'x30' with the gable roof tied in, and 12' walls. And a very plain and simple 7' x 24' bumpout on the side with 8' walls, and a couple of 24' standard trusses.

And every location differs as far as price, so what some may deem as a cheap price, may very well be extraordinarily high around here. The issue is, I either can't get a price or get strung out forever, I get a slacker that whines about his money situation and his family situation, or I get a shithead that thinks he can **** my bank account. So I have two more I am going to talk two. One is supposed to get back with me this weekend, and the other is my concrete guy that wants to bid the complete job, which so far, I may just go with him and tell everyone else to **** off. Hell, the one contractor is going to build 12' walls using 2x4's, which I'm fairly certain doesn't meet code, and I didn't want 2x4 walls which I told him up front. I want 2x6 walls whether the ceiling height is 12' or 8'.

That was not directed at you, it was in response to Flynns comment. I've never had the same experience as him, but most people I know who did all seem to go for the lowball bidder, then try to work thier quote down. I've seen this done numerous times and it almost always ends the same.

Chris

 

[Kevin54]

That was not directed at you, it was in response to Flynns comment. I've never had the same experience as him, but most people I know who did all seem to go for the lowball bidder, then try to work thier quote down. I've seen this done numerous times and it almost always ends the same.

Chris

Understandable, and my apologies. I thought it was directed at me.

But all the same, I don't look for the cheapest, but I do some research, and I have seen a lot of places the contractors that I have spoke with have done. I don't know whether it's their age or what, but now they talk the talk but won't walk the walk. It just pisses me off that I can't tackle it myself. Some things I am capable of, and would even be willing to help. Plus the wife is willing to help as much as she can.

If I had a solid price and commitment, we could get the vinyl stripped off of the garage, get the cedar siding stained, and a lot of things prepped. I'd even help strip the roof, even though I only have one arm to do it with, but I can handle that. And I've told the contractors that I can get the siding stripped off, get it stacked, and take it over to the ReStore for someone. I can also make runs for them if they needed something. But to no avail

I just called my concrete guy that is down in Florida for a few more weeks, and told him to send his guy over to look at things, and get things figured. He said he'll be back to Ohio in three weeks, so if the price is decent, he'll get the job most likely. He's done a lot of work for me, and not once was I dissatisfied. Plus I know his work ethics, so once he starts, he stays on the job.

 

[Scott r c]

If that's a years wages than the guy doesn't charge enough IMO.

 

[Holzarbeiter]

No one said illegals, except you.
There's a difference between immigrant and illegal.
If you're confused, I'm sure one of our immigrant members would love to explain it to you.

If you bother to translate my screen name you might guess what category I fall into.

Problem is that 90% of immigrant framing, sheetrock, roofing and siding crews on the eastern seaboard are south of the border. Most are either with no papers or false papers. How do I know you might ask. Because as a former contractor I have made attempts to hire legal help and will not hire illegal. Now some might have a legal front man but the rest of the crew is a?

 

[Kevin54]

Well.....Just got finished speaking with contractor #4 a little while ago.

#3 that was going to drop off his quote this weekend was again a no show as far as dropping it off. For gods sake, if you don't want to do it, just say you don't want to do it.

#4 lives just a half mile down the road. We discussed what I wanted, and he also discussed some possible modifications to my design as far as the way the taller roof would tie in to the shorter roof. We discussed with possibly going with wider trusses to make an overhang to tie in with the existing overhangs. And he is going to figure up two different price packages. One with what I have drawn up, and another which he thinks will add to the style of the overall structure.

And I also found out that he was approached by contractor #2 about doing all the framing for contractor #2. So far, he sounds good, but we'll see what the next week to week and a half brings which is when he said he will have me a price. Plus he will do things tip to tail as far as permits, and so on.

I'm not going to knock on wood because of arthritis, hold my breath because I'd probably pass out, nor cross my fingers because I'd probably get cramps after a while. But I told him that if he gets back to me with a price, and does it when he says he will, that's more than the others have done.

And we sat and talked some **** over a cold one, I showed him what I have done in the past as far as construction around here and he seemed to be impressed. But at least he knows that I know what it takes to do something. And since contractor #2 approached him about framing everything, and contractor #2 was telling me that he was hurting for money, I'm thinking that things may come in a tad cheaper than #2's quote. So we'll see.

And we had a good chat to, as he is a cancer survivor, so we were shooting the **** about my wife, him, and the ordeals they had to deal with as far as chemo, radiation, and so on. First impressions of him.....a real decent and polite person. I hope I can keep thinking that from now on, forth.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Wow, Kevin.... after reading your posts on GJ regarding your build project, my sincerest regards to you for the struggle you are having ....

Now I am going to just throw something in the mix that may be worth something or nothing to you, but I am stirred inside to type this out. In no way take my post as being offensive, as it is purely just my opinion and one of my life experiences and is in no way judgmental on your behalf.... True story follows...

My wife and I spent the last six years restoring a house we just loved. We did all the work ourselves, made everything in it super comfy and convenient. But we failed to recognize that six years later, either of us would have problems with the steps ( a tri- level home). So starting 18 months ago, we started looking for a one level home. What a fiasco that was, we looked at almost 50 homes, none suited our expectations, put in offers on ones that did, inspections failed, on and on....

So, with my health going down faster and Jan 1, 2015 at the door, I told my wife we had better get this move done, as I was going on part time at work and then in to full retirement. So we put our tri-level up for sale in the dead of winter thinking we would have at least 4- 8 weeks to find a home...

Wrong. It sold in 48 hours. Buyer offered more than we asked, we accepted as with the economy, one never knows when the next qualified buyer will come along. He had his home sold, we agreed on closing in 45 days... Should be enough time to find a home yes ? NO....

We got down to 3 weeks to the sale of our home and we still had no home. Finally found one that had been " lipsticked" and was sharp. A 1959 brick ranch home over a crawlspace. It had all new windows, new doors in and out, tile, kitchen, re furbished hardwoods, furnace/A/C on and on. Our realtor told us it was sold but it had a 48 hour " kick out clause" in the buyers offer. Our agent told us it had been inspected and ready to move in to. Mysteriously within 12 hours our agent calls and said the buyer had backed out of the contracts due to her home's buyer had lost their loan. The home was ours..

In our panic to get a home with just two and half weeks to move out of ours, we broke all the rules that we had lived by for 18 months. We did not tour the house twice, we trusted our agent's word and did not get it inspected...

We move in and the snow, then rains start. On the 4 th day I hear a vibration under the floor. I crawl under the floor and find the crawlspace vapor barrier floating in water and a sump pump running. I check the seller's disclosure and the seller's checked " NO" to the house having a sump pump. They checked "NO" to the house having plumbing or drainage problems. .. Then I smell sewer gas... I follow the 4 inch. main sewer pipe under the floor and find the old cast iron pipe has a 1/2 in. wide split on the top of it for 25 ft. I find the one car garage ceiling joists were chopped out for a pull down stair and the ceiling is sagging. The electrical service and wiring is 1959. On and ON. ...

It gets 22 degrees and the furnace that ran so well all the time the house was for sale, stopped working. The main sewer backed up where the cast iron exited the foundation wall and connected with the city sewer pipe...

About that time, I fall at work and end up with a concussion and brain bleed. We are out almost $5K now in repairs and I am off work, and we are living on a MUCH reduced income. .. Then, our Golden dog gets deathly sick and...

To shorten up this novel, my wife and I are now experiencing the WORST time in our life of being married for 24 years and ALL because we made a BAD judgement call. . The crux of my story ? We did not read the SIGNS of the external forces that guide we humans through life. The "forces" were throwing HUGE blocking stones at us for18 months making us fight tooth and nail to find a place to move to. We chose to ignore them instead ...

Rather than acknowledging that something that should be a pleasure to do, as home buying should be... we ignored the negative forces working against us and instead chose to fight them. We should have backed off after looking for 18 months for a home and not put our house on the market when we did....

By fighting the forces, we put ourselves in the position of getting "pushed" in to unknowingly settling for a money pit home. I for one, believe we are "guided" somewhat through life, and these guides know what is in store for our future somewhat and can help us steer clear of huge problems if we "listen". Not to get too tin hat foolish here, but just something I have learned in near 63 years about MY life anyway. Good Luck with your build.

 

[volleyball]

Greg, great and terrible story. It doesn't take much to make what was once easy into something tough to impossible.
For an investment, ranch houses will increase in value as mcmansions will decrease as their large size, multi story and possibly poor construction will make them money caverns, way bigger than money pits.
But there are lots of multi story that do work. A straight staircase means cheaper lifts. Widening doors for wheelchairs, or even crutches makes a difference. Enlarging the bath even if your master bedroom gets smaller to make room for a barrier free shower. Moving the controls to the near side instead of in line with the shower head. Making space for appliances such as mini fridge for medicine so you take less trips up and down stairs.
Landscaping so that a stair ramp doesn't look like the 5mph bumpers of the 70's, tacked on and not blending in.
Do all this when you are still healthy and can do yourself so that you only have to do minor modifications to meet your needs.
I look at any project and figure out how it will be in 10,20 years. Will I still want it? Will it have been a costly albatross?

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Not to derail Kevins thread but very true volley,

Back in the 40/50/60/70's land was cheaper and the builder's built the large one level ranch homes as a standard issue. Great homes for the aging population as many had NO stairs to maneuver. Land goes up, the two story/split level homes get popular as they find out , they can build two split levels/multis on one lot, that just one large ranch once was built on...

Now these old ranches are in short supply. Either they are way outdated and in poor repair, or have been well maintained and updates and will cost a arm and leg to buy. A real dilemma for the aging in our nation. jmo Back to Kevin's build now.