About a year ago, all of the "can" lights in my bedroom started flashing on and off (they are controlled by a 3 way electronic dimmer). Called an electrician and he found a broken wire from the attic down to the switch by using a meter with a ringer.We replaced the wire and all was fine for about a year, until last night when these same lights started flashing off and on again. I am now wondering if the dimmer might be causing the problem. Any thoughts??
Can dimmer's break wires?
- Thread starter jannan
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
No it wouldnt be possible for a switch to break a wire.
Possible u have rats?
Possible u have rats?
Redwolf947
Well-known member
I guess we should ask in what way was the first wire broken?
Are the "can" lights over heating, causing the temperture switch to trip, reset trip again ???????
First thing I think when "can" lights flash .......Over heating as too large of bulb, not IC approved fixture ..........this theory does not check with prior repair.
First thing I think when "can" lights flash .......Over heating as too large of bulb, not IC approved fixture ..........this theory does not check with prior repair.
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No, not mice, rats or squirrels, and not an overheat condition (I don't believe), as they start flashing almost immediately after turn on. The reason I say it's not animals is because one lead of the cable inside of the jacket was broken, the jacket was not damaged. The electrician told me that possibly vibration more than likely broke the wire. He stated that alternating current could cause a vibration which may have broken the wire( it was 25 years old). The new wire is less than a year old. My thought was that possibly the dimmer, which is about 2 years old was somehow setting up a vibration.
I cant explain a broken wire, but the flashing might be incompatibility between dimmer and lamp. CFL's are the worst thing to try to dim, and LED's are no picnic either. Flashing lights can be a common symptom.
Good luck
CD
Good luck
CD
James-W
Well-known member
I don't understand how a wire can just arbitrarily break inside the sheathing. Wires are run thru walls all the time and they don't break. I could maybe understand the vibration thing breaking a wire if the wire was connected to a ceiling fan that was out of balance and was shaking, but other than that something doesn't sound quite right to me.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Wires just don't break inside the jacket,either another issue or old wire was messed up in the first place. Could be staple to tight also
Actually these are just incandescent flood's, and mostly original bulbs from 20 years ago. The lights are only on for a few minutes at night, and almost always in a dimmed state. I changed the dimmers about 2 years ago from old mechanical one's to an electronic model. Never had a problem until a year later, and now another year after replacing the original wire (although I don't know for sure that it is a broken wire this time, but it's the same symptoms).
n8n
Well-known member
Dimmers can generate heat, if it is old wire it can cause the insulation to fail. I don't see how the wire would physically break though unless the dimmer was actually vibrating (possible, can you hear any noise from it?)
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
now that my friend is a load of monkeypoo!
Yes AC current causes hum, which can in turn cause vibration but this is only present in transformers where high magnetic fields are present. Have u ever tried to break a 14ga or 12ga wire by vibrating it? It doesnt work. U have to bend the wire back and forth several times to get it to snap. And broken inside the jacket? Do U realize that NM wire is tightly packed inside its jacket? 25 yr old NM-b wire is not that old! Never seen this before ever. And Ive done tons of service calls...
now that my friend is a load of monkeypoo!
Yes AC current causes hum, which can in turn cause vibration but this is only present in transformers where high magnetic fields are present. Have u ever tried to break a 14ga or 12ga wire by vibrating it? It doesnt work. U have to bend the wire back and forth several times to get it to snap. And broken inside the jacket? Do U realize that NM wire is tightly packed inside its jacket? 25 yr old NM-b wire is not that old! Never seen this before ever. And Ive done tons of service calls...
Well, at the time, I thought he was just giving some kind of BS answer, so he could get on to his next job, but when it happened again I began to wonder.
Just an update, as I don't like to leave this kind of thread hanging, no one learn's if you do.
I poked around a little this morning and found a loose ground wire at the dimmer where he replaced the wire. Reconnected the ground and all seems to be good. Thanks for all the thoughts !!
I poked around a little this morning and found a loose ground wire at the dimmer where he replaced the wire. Reconnected the ground and all seems to be good. Thanks for all the thoughts !!
justsam
Well-known member
Glad you fixed it but not in the way you describe. The GROUND (bare wire) should not be in play here. It causing the lights to blink indicates it is a current carrying conductor and that is not right. Perhaps you tightened or fixed a loose neutral or hot wire while you were at it which will explain the issue. Is this dimmer some sort of SMART dimmer per chance? Some very small amount of sneak current is (was) allowed, (0.5ma), via GROUND.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Well, maybe it isn't fixed then, although the lights didn't flash after I found the loose ground. Looks like I need to explore a little more. I did tighten all of the wire nuts while I was in the box, but the ground was the only one that pulled out when I tugged on it. I have a meter, so I'll check to see if the ground is hot and report back. As you can tell, I'm white to white, black to black and ground to ground type of guy.If it gets much more complicated than that, I normally call an electrician.
n8n
Well-known member
Well, *is* it a "smart" dimmer, and was a non-bare or green wire connected from the dimmer to the ground bundle?
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
How did u check to see that "nothing was going through it?" A current clamp i hope...
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
No, not a smart dimmer, and yes the green wire was(or maybe I should say, is now) connected to the ground bundle.
Actually I used a Greenlee GT-11 Voltage detector. It is super sensitive, static will set it off. Then I pulled the nut off and put my finger on the ground bundle. Pretty sure it's not hot.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Thats not gonna tell u if current is flowing through the ground because u didnt complete a circuit and youre already at the same potential as ground...u would need a current clamp to check...
Marctrees
Well-known member
Look, this is all so silly, missing SO many pertinent details.
Too tired for a step by step post, I'm a verrrryyy slow typer, so will just say GET A NEW ELECTRICIAN THAT AT LEAST UNDERSTANDS THEORY 101.
Where the heck is the "eating popcorn" emoticon when I need it. Marc
Too tired for a step by step post, I'm a verrrryyy slow typer, so will just say GET A NEW ELECTRICIAN THAT AT LEAST UNDERSTANDS THEORY 101.
Where the heck is the "eating popcorn" emoticon when I need it. Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
Aye Aye Aye- The cans may INDIVIDUALLY go on/ off if conditions are not right.
Noone ever said/ or asked, if ALL are going off simultaneously OR independantly.
OMG.
Among other left out details. YARRRRRRR Marc
Noone ever said/ or asked, if ALL are going off simultaneously OR independantly.
OMG.
Among other left out details. YARRRRRRR Marc
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Ummm...ahem the OP said in the first post that they ALL started going on and off!
Marctrees
Well-known member
Re: the Ahem - He never said simultaneously .
Maybe I dig to deep.
If so, my mistake. Marc
Maybe I dig to deep.
If so, my mistake. Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
Wylies and Diesels - Good posts. Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
I meant Wylies and Zmax. Lars
Thanks for all the thoughts guys. Problem seems to be solved. Probably a loose wire in the box, definately a loose ground. As suggested, if the problem arises again I'll get a different electrician. Obviously this guy did sloppy work.
Cmreschke
Well-known member
Just a guess, the problem could have been the dimmer. The loose ground I spose could have made it do that, as dimmers with no neutral connection need a ground connection to send milliamps back to earth. Hence the need for a neutral at a switch box. But different topic altogether.
You will have current on your ground from your dimmer, but it is considered acceptable and it is by design, again only milliamps.
You will have current on your ground from your dimmer, but it is considered acceptable and it is by design, again only milliamps.
abk241
Well-known member
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
The "skyhook" must ave got caught on it too....
