Please: opinions please - tig welders

[garfunkle24]

Hey guys I am in the market for a tig welder. I am very comfortable with a MIG and would like to do some other kinds of work that require a different weldibg process,, whether it be TIG, oxy/act, brazing etc.

Anyway, I've decided that I want to get into some tig welding. I've done some searches on here but not really found what I was looking for.

I know some may send me on to metalmeet or something like, but I hear wanna it from the guys in these forums

A few questions if you could spare the time please?

1. Where are the 'price points' for different qualities of tig welder?
2. Do you usually stick with Lincoln/Miller for you welders, (including your tig) or if not why not?
3. I have stick welded for maybe 150 hours and MIG for a thou.sand. How long til I can do something not looking like a monkey shitting molten motel onto two pieces of steel?
4. What extras/options/features does your machine have over others that you know of?
5. With the previous expectation or use of tig you had, were you surprised or disapointed about the amount you have used it and how it functions?
6. Going back to those price points, which machines would you guys buy in each of them, with your own money

Any help receved wll be greatly appreciated.

 

[Merkava_4]

What material and what thickness will you be using the machine for?

 

[crashbumper]

What material and what thickness will you be using the machine for?

This is probably the most important question to ask yourself.

If you only plan on steel/stainless, then a DC TIG is usually all you need. If you plan on doing Aluminum, then you will need an AC/DC TIG.

Almost every car guy I know wants to do aluminum, so they almost never look at the cost or options on a DC only model. Miller has some great models, we use all Miller welders at the shop I work at and we do a lot of Stainless turbo manifolds.

We have one dedicated welder for aluminum, but it is an older water cooled Miller. The newer Syncrowave 200's we have will do aluminum but the torch gets hot since they aren't watercooled.

My two cents.

 

[myslow2002gt]

As mentioned above, what do you plan on doing with it?

When it comes to Tig welders, I stick with Miller or Hobart.

 

[garfunkle24]

As mentioned above, what do you plan on doing with it?

When it comes to Tig welders, I stick with Miller or Hobart.

One of the biggest reasons in moving to tig is (besides learning to do it) is the capability to weld more/different materials.

I would like to be able to weld aluminum and stainless and of course mild steel. This is a commercial shop, so once we have one it will get quite a lot of use. I see potential for the machine running 2-3 hours a day, with the split between materials at approx 50% alum, 40% steel, 10% stainless.

As for material thickness: At the moment I am using a Lincoln 225 Mig. I would like something with equal or greater thickness capability.

Thanks for the responses already guys

 

[trackwelder]

What is your budget for a new machine?

 

[garfunkle24]

What is your budget for a new machine?

I don't have a strictly set budget, but was thinking around the 2 - 3k mark. It depends on what different capabilities there are at each price point.

 

[scottguehne]

I think if you want a really nice machine, the Miller Dynasty DX is a pretty nice piece of equipment. A little more on the pricey side though, expect to pay I think about 3-3500, depending on if you want a radiator with it or not. I have read several articles in Practical Welding that do nothing but praise how the Dynasty has improved weld quality, weld speed, and and cut overall cost associated with the welding process. You said it is for a commercial shop, so I'm assuming you won't be paying for this using your own personal wallet, so I assume price is less of a concern. If somone else was buying, I would get the Dynasty. But if cash is a concern, or if I was buying it personally, I would probably get the Lincoln Precision Tig 225. Should be around 23-2700 bucks, again, depending on whether you wanted a radiator or not. I think the Lincoln is the better bang for the buck, but both machines are awesome. Both have a wide amperage range, and both are AC/DC machines. The lincoln has a few things that the miller doesn't, such as : AC auto balance, a set it and see it before you weld pulser, and it's red( I like red better than blue, not that color should decide what welder you get). The miller has a more advanced pulse function though, with up to 3 or 5000 thousand pps, pulses per second. It is the Dynasty's advanced pulse function that has helped numerous companies increase their weld productivity. All in all though, I think either of these machines would suit your application, and regardless of which one you pick, I think you would be getting a great machine. Just my two cents.

 

[Slide]

What kind of shop are you putting this into? If you are doing production work on relatively thick material, the MIG will probably be the most cost-efficient. (Not just faster, but easier to train new employees, and since TIG requires a little more skill, you'd hafta pay higher wages, etc.)

If your shop does a variety of things, with shorter production runs (or just one-offs), and you require a higher-quality and/or more attractive weld, then TIG is a good way to go.

I like my Miller Syncro 200, but I'll agree the torch can get really hot if you're doing a lot of thicker (1/4" +) steel or pretty much any aluminum. I don't do enough of that stuff to justify the cost of a water-cooled setup, but then I'm only doing this as a hobby.

 

[garfunkle24]

What kind of shop are you putting this into? If you are doing production work on relatively thick material, the MIG will probably be the most cost-efficient. (Not just faster, but easier to train new employees, and since TIG requires a little more skill, you'd hafta pay higher wages, etc.)

If your shop does a variety of things, with shorter production runs (or just one-offs), and you require a higher-quality and/or more attractive weld, then TIG is a good way to go.

The MIG will continue to be the primary tool for regular, mild steel fabrication and repair. The main uses of the TIG would be:

Welding aluminum
Welding stainless
High stress/critical parts
Parts that need to be aesthetically pleasing
Welding very thin materials

The Tig would be used by existing employees, primarily myself. Staffing costs would not be an issue.

 

[307WYLD]

Garfunkle24...Esab all the way. If you don't already have a plasma cutter, I suggest you look into one from this company as well.

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...ondary/q/display_id.id4579d100be8df2.20823892

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...39.97885034/path.plasma_plasma_cutting_manual

 

[Steve from Socal]

In a commercial application where you are working with .250+ thick material I would strongly suggest a 300+ amp welder. A Miller Dynasty 350 is going to be a 7000.00+ welder new, a Dynasty 300 can be found used for about half that. A Syncrowave 250 will be a couple thousand less than a new Dynasty and is rated at 310 amps. I don't have anything against Lincoln, Esab or others but, in inverter tig welders Miller is tops IMHO. A smaller welder could be used if you preheat the thicker material and use a water cooled torch. This may be a better option if the average usage is .060-.125 thickness. Figure as a rule of thumb an amp per .001 inch thickness or 250 amps for 1/4". I had a Dynasty 200DX and it was a fantastic machine in a small package, upgraded to a 300DX

Steve

 

[garfunkle24]

Garfunkle24...Esab all the way. If you don't already have a plasma cutter, I suggest you look into one from this company as well.

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...ondary/q/display_id.id4579d100be8df2.20823892

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...39.97885034/path.plasma_plasma_cutting_manual

Yeah, I like ESAB too. We actually have an Esab plasma already and my Dad just bought an Esab 250 Mig for the farm.

Thanks again to everyone for all the responses.

 

[Piper]

do a quick search on the invertig 201. I bought one of these in March this year and love it. Comes with a lot of accessories. Check out the miller and hobart forums and you'll learn lots. I was going to buy the Lincoln but opted for the invertig 201.

Piper

 

[Underdog]

Miller Syncrowave 250. Look on CL they come up frequently.

 

[myslow2002gt]

One of the biggest reasons in moving to tig is (besides learning to do it) is the capability to weld more/different materials.

I would like to be able to weld aluminum and stainless and of course mild steel. This is a commercial shop, so once we have one it will get quite a lot of use. I see potential for the machine running 2-3 hours a day, with the split between materials at approx 50% alum, 40% steel, 10% stainless.

As for material thickness: At the moment I am using a Lincoln 225 Mig. I would like something with equal or greater thickness capability.

Thanks for the responses already guys

As another poster mentioned, the Miller Syncrowave 250 is a VERY nice welder. It's what I use and I don't think I could find anything better.

Craigslist is a good way to find a gently used one at a much cheaper cost, I know I see them frequently on there when shops close down looking to sell of their inventory.

 

[stock z/28]

Hello,

I have several tigs, both Miller and Lincoln.


I have a 250 Syncrowave that is mainly used on aluminum heads or manifolds.

I also have a couple of Lincoln pro 175s that are square wave tigs also that do a great job on aluminum although they are mainly for crankshaft balancing and steel fab respectfully.

But, if I were going to buy a new machine I would buy a 350 Dynasty inverter style welder simply for the capacity to weld thicker aluminum. But they are pretty expensive, well beyond my current budget. For me the 200 Dynasty is just to small for the thickness of aluminum that I occasionaly have to weld, but it may be fine for your use.


The inverter basded machines are very nice and are very impressive. I have both a Lincoln VT 200 and the Maxstar 150 Miller and I like both very much, but both are DC machines only, I wish they had ac capability.


As I said I would certainly go with an inverter style tig and if you plan on doing thicker aluminum I would look for a larger amp machine if at all possible.



Good luck


Jeff

 

[speed bump]

I have some experience with the Miller syncrowave 250 DX units and they seem to be pretty good units for what I did with them (mostly burned rod all day long) however since everyone has reccomended a 300+ A unit I would say look at either the complete Syncrowave 350 which I bet will do everything you plan on doing and more or spend the extra $1500 and buy the complete Dynasty if you are worried about the power bills.

As far as what I would buy personally I couldn't tell you because currently I am hunting a Dialarc or an Idealarc or a Gas driven welder that over time I will eventually attempt to hunt down a tig module, and LN-25 for.

 

[Vulturej]

I would also recommend the Miller Syncrowave 250 DX, I bought one for our shop two years ago. We have not had any problems with the welder and its performance on stainless and aluminum has been excellent.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/syncrowave_250_dx/

I looked at Esab tig welders at the time, because I was so impressed with are Esab Powercut 875 plasma cutter we have. I liked the feel and performance of the Miller tig more and decided on Syncrowave 250 DX.

 

[Senorpablo]

do a quick search on the invertig 201. I bought one of these in March this year and love it. Comes with a lot of accessories. Check out the miller and hobart forums and you'll learn lots. I was going to buy the Lincoln but opted for the invertig 201.

Piper

I second this.

I just picked up an HTP Invertig 201 and I'm impressed. These machines are well respected in the community for their value, as are Thermal Arc machines.

Neither of these brands/machines will have the resale of a Miller, but the same basic setup will run you about $1100 less. A Dynasty 200DX setup will run you $3450, the same ones used are consistently going for about $2900.

As Steve said, if you're hoping to do 1/4" you're really going to be pushing a 200amp machine. You really need a water cooler and water cooled torch if you're going to be working around or over 150 amps. A water cooler setup will add about $500-800 to a setup.

If you don't mind the giant size, weight, and power requirements of a transformer machine, they're much less expensive. There's a ton of these on the used market right now with water coolers ready to go for cheap! The new inverter technology is superior, but the transformers got the job done for decades.