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I hired an electrician for this???

Tim The Tool Man

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Mar 1, 2012
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Lehigh Valley, PA
I am a general contractor by trade and have been working with a client on and off for several years now. The homeowner lives out of State and bought a house for his two children to live in while they both attend Lehigh University. One of his daughters has earned a full ride scholarship for softball. Anyhow I needed some work done in an outdoor batting cage/shed that I built for them. Part of this includes installing a 50 amp subpanel to this shed. I had contacted 12 electrical contractors in my area last Fall and met 7 of them for an estimate. I think because it was soon to be winter none of them wanted the job and just one took the work. I always pay cash, a percent up front and the balance upon a passed inspection. Well this electrician ran into the home owner last fall and had him pay him directly instead of going through me. This doesn't really bother me because I don't make any profit on my subcontractors labor but he had the home owner pay him in full.

Once he gets paid he tells me he doesn't work in the snow and he can't start until Spring. Grrr! That means I cannot do my work until Spring either and as of now the Softball season started over a month ago! He already got himself paid and now has no incentive to do his job.

Well fast forward to last week, after numerous phone calls from myself and the homeowner the electrician finally started his work. Just to make matters worse he treats this as a side job and needs me to come by a couple week night evenings and both Saturday and Sunday (Easter!).

Now here in Pennsylvania there is no special licencing for electricians. Generally most townships require that various fees are paid and that each electrician to pass the ICS exam. I am going to be taking this exam sometime this fall myself because finding electricians willing to work as subcontractors is near impossible in my area.

Well here is what this electrician did; First he installed a small five breaker subpanel without a cutout main breaker. He then ran #2 service entrance cable from the house panel, along the side of the house, up the corner of the house 9' then across a 15' span then down the side of the shed and into the box. This is all one long piece of wire tied to the side of the building with pipe clamps and drywall screws. The subpanel still has the neutral and grounds bonded. there is no ground rod or anything. In fact he cut, flush to the ground, and scrapped the Ufer ground wire I installed when I poured the concrete pad for the shed! He ran 14NMB wire from the subpanel to a 30amp 220 outlet for a Ptac unit I installed to the back of the shed. He ran all his wires 3/4 of an inch back on the studs and didn't install nail plates. None of the exterior penetrations had any duct seal or anything. There is tons more I could list as well.

So he tells me he is done and it is ready for inspection. I show him everything I am concerned about and his reply is well you are not an electrician.

I said screw it I need this job done so I fixed everything myself this morning. I put a weatherhead on each building 15' up and ran proper overhead wire between the buildings, changed out the subpanel and unbonded the neutral and ground, dug out some concrete and re-installed my Ufer and drove a ground rod and ran my ground wires, and fixed everything else. My almost complete rework of his job took 2 1/2 hours. He took 15 hours total over 5 evenings and weekends.

I called for an inspection for tomorrow morning. I just hope I fixed everything correctly!
 

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jonjon1

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Mar 11, 2015
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Sorry to hear about this, when I first started dividing properties and building houses I hired "subs" I was GC and did all the mechanical and sight work but subbed out, forming, cement, electrical, finish work, roofing, ect...

WHAT A FUKIN NIGHTMARE!!!! My first big project was 20 acres I subbed into 5 lots with 4 ground up builds and 1 rehab, The form guys fucked me, the framer fucked me, the electrician, and the roofer all fucked me... I should have cleared $700K+ and ended up with 1/4 of that and doing a lot of stuff over...

The very next job I learned my lesson, I did it all my self. I built 8 houses and only hired out for 4 tasks..
1-surveyor
2-Forms
3-Roofs
and
4- granite!!!!!

Everything else I did on my own, I hired a master electrician on my payroll, a 8 more laborers, and 2 awesome finish guys, I was estimating clearing $a bit under 7 figures and did almost double what I thought!!! PLUS IT WAS DONE ON TIME!!!! Find a GC that could pull "on time" off...

PS- I would have went under ground with that service, I would have drilled the foundation and shot that walkway, the small bullet mole would go right under that walkway like nothing...

next time call an irrigation contractor, have them "shoot" the walkway and install the conduit, then call the electricians. I would charge around $250 to run the conduit {it would have taken me 20 minutes} you would have saved more than that in cable and materials....
 

ishiboo

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Oct 27, 2010
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9,481
Location
Oshkosh, WI
Wow.

And he has the SER supporting itself aerially, with drywall screw-attached clamps holding it to the wall?

That's a ridiculous job.

The Ptac can call out 12/2 for 30A but I don't think it would ever do 14/2.
 
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T

Tim The Tool Man

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Mar 1, 2012
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Lehigh Valley, PA
Why so many?

Was this work performed out of your normal area? Don't you have a preferred electrical contractor?

Because it was being inspected by the city nobody wanted the work. I would call one either they would scoff at the small job or they would come and look and then never contact me with a price. So I just kept at it until I found somebody that gave me a price...

Aside from commercial work, all the work I do I have the homeowner do the electrical as far as the permit office is concerned. It is a wink, wink, nudge, nudge situation as far as the inspectors are concerned. They all know I am the one doing the work and allow it because it is no secret that finding electrical subs is impossible. With this job the home owner lives out of State and cannot do his own work on a non-primary residence.

Besides this homeowner plans to donate this property to the University once his children are done with school and I just want everything properly inspected and legit...
 

tdkkart

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Eastern Iowa
And we wonder why we all distrust contractors and want to do things ourselves.

As my signature says, if it's F&*k'd, at least I know who did it.
 

gnpenning

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I have more questions than answers.
I understand why you fixed it before the inspection.

Not knowing how long it takes to get an inspection and follow up I would have had it inspected the way it was. Then when it didn't pass have the "electrician" fix it on his time and dime. While the inspector maybe aware of his work it would give him a one more. Depending on what the inspector had to say about the work you may be able to report him to the state. That kind of work needs to be stopped.

If he gave you an grief about fixing his work you have the skills to fix it.

It was just a chance to clean up the industry a little.
 
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Tim The Tool Man

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Lehigh Valley, PA
I understand why you fixed it before the inspection.

Not knowing how long it takes to get an inspection and follow up I would have had it inspected the way it was. Then when it didn't pass have the "electrician" fix it on his time and dime. While the inspector maybe aware of his work it would give him a one more. Depending on what the inspector had to say about the work you may be able to report him to the state. That kind of work needs to be stopped.

If he gave you an grief about fixing his work you have the skills to fix it.

It was just a chance to clean up the industry a little.

The problem is I really want this job done. The softball season is already going strong. We really wanted it done this past December so the homeowner's daughter could practice over the winter. The university batting cage is outdoor and unusable in cold weather.

Also there is no state reporting agency, it is all local.
 
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wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
What a hack job!

If the sub only had 5 breaker handles then it would have been fine without a main but a main would still be desirable...

Did u redo that SER? Not only is it unsupported(no messenger) but it may not be UV rated either...
 

kingchevy

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Nov 9, 2007
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Calling 12 subs to look at a small job is a waste of a lot of peoples time imo, especially as a GC.
 
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Tim The Tool Man

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Lehigh Valley, PA
Calling 12 subs to look at a small job is a waste of a lot of peoples time imo, especially as a GC.

I find it quite ridiculous myself! I really don't understand how electricians make any money in this part of the state. Nobody seems to want any work. They all must be independently wealthy and able to pick and choose their jobs!

Actually it is a situation when many GC's have screwed subs over the years and as I understand it, electricians were a particular target. So now pretty much as an unwritten rule electricians will only work directly with a home owner or commercial business and not with a GC. I understand their position, why work for free? It also opens up a whole new market for side jobs if they are not attached to the GC. If Joe home owner asks the electrician about installing a ceiling fan u unrelated to the current job, he is free to take the work and not run it by the GC...
 

Wirepuller

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^ not even close. Working directly for a GC has many benefits. Yes you can lose but building relationships with builders as well as your attorney is the most important part of business. I have constant work through a few GCs. The ones that have been around the block know what their doing and don't usually burn a sub for the hell of it. As for working directly for a homeowner it's horrible. And for what? So they can call me to put up a ceiling fan months later? Hardly worth it. I almost never work for home owners. Its a pain in the *** and most of them haven't a clue as to how to manage a job. I'll pass.
 

CGT80

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Aug 29, 2014
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IE, SoCal, USA
I understand that you needed to get the job done, but maybe you should have had the work inspected and let the homeowner deal with the electrician since he payed him in full before the job was done. I assume that you and the homeowner had an understanding that you were to hire and pay the electrician and the homeowner was the person who messed things up. It wouldn't solve the fact that the job needed to be done, but at least you would have had leverage to use against the electrician.

It is all too often that the phrase, "If you need something done right, you better do it yourself," is actually true. I worked for a GC and he liked to keep work in house to save money and also because he knew who he was dealing with. He loved having me work for him because I always tried to do a good job and I could think for myself. I tend to think about more than just the now and here of a job and that can pay off. Some people don't look at the bigger picture.
 

CNGsaves

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KS and OK
WTF . . . . wait 'til spring to put in aerial **** ??? :eyecrazy:

Time for "Mike Holmes style" to tear it out and start over.

Should be BURIED between the two buildings.
 

DenisG

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Jul 14, 2013
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Location
Milwaukee
I'm not in construction, but it seems that there should be a contract that the electrician should have met and it should have been his responsibility to see that his work passes the inspection. Even though it may be a small job, shouldn't things be in writing? How else can you enforce "performance"?
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
WTF . . . . wait 'til spring to put in aerial **** ??? :eyecrazy:

Time for "Mike Holmes style" to tear it out and start over.

Should be BURIED between the two buildings.

With no messenger or other REQUIRED support, I can just picture that SER falling down with the weight of ice or snow on it.
 

Styx

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Jul 26, 2014
Messages
316
Location
Fraser Valley, BC. Canada
Wow from the pictures that looks like ****... Sorry...

I here you on the problems of finding an electrical contractor... I want to do a 200 amp service to my house for new furnace and A/C and a 100 amp sub service connection box placed for when I build my shop... I called at least 10 electricians, got calls back from 3 and only 1 came out to do a real quote. He measured things up went over what I wanted and said he would get me a quote very soon but that I shouldn't be too impacient as having to work with our provincial power agency can some times take a little time as we will be moving the service to the other side of the house for ease of access...
well that was last october and I havent heard a word from him. I did try and contact him a couple times with no calls returned... I did a bunch of work and made things ok for the furnace and A/C and the installer will be running all the wiring he needs done but that still leaves me with out my shop service.
 
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