Saylor-Beall 705 vs Quincy 325

[shifterkart]

Since these are the last two classic pumps that are still made in america and the two that i'm interested in since parts are still available for it, i'd like to go over the qualities of these pumps over a microscope. What are your thoughts are on the pros and cons are of these pumps in terms of valve design, pistons, cranks, construction, build quality etc. What do you like or dislike about each pump and why. Also great if you have any thoughts on their twin cylinder counter parts such as the Saylor-Beall 707 and the equivalent Quincy 5120 (maybe? not sure about the quincy).

 

[MacMcMacmac]

If you can get the SB in pressure lube for equivalent money, I'd say it's a wash. I think the Quincy has better valves. The second SB pump is a 9000 I believe, which would be the equivalent of the big Quincy. Quincy is a division of Atlas Copco now, if that makes any difference to you. We were looking into dealing SB in the mid 90's but they were not cost competitive in the market we were in. They seemed very well built though, and were available in pressure lube right down to the smallest single cylinder pump. Those big v-4s (9000 and 5120) are 25-30hp machines and will need a hefty electrical supply to run them, they really aren't comparable to the smaller 325 and 705/703 compressors.

I still don't know how the Chinese get away with making such blatant copies of Saylor Beall compressors. Make sure you are getting the real thing if you go that route.

The Quincy is as tough as they come. The basic bottom end is used in Corken gas compressors and are good to 500psi. They take out the HP small end bushing after years of service, but that seems to be a common problem in many makes. I've seen them come in from the oil field with enough carbon build up in them to seize the valves in the head, and still be rebuildable. They and the LeRoi-Dresser pressure lube pumps were the only ones I ever saw put on to drill rigs, so that should say something about their reputation.

 

[Trey T]

For a home shop, pressure lubrication can be overkilled. I think the best and most efficient pump is the Champion R15. It can run much slower speed and yield a same CFM as competitors. Majority of work trucks in Houston run R15 pumps, you hardly see quincy or SB (maybe clones).

SB 705 delivers 17CFM@175psi @ 845RPM (~200lbs bare pump)
Quincy 325 delivers 19CFM@175psi @ 900RPM (~200lbs bare pump)
Champion R15 delivers 17CFM@175psi @ 734RPM (~125lbs bare pump)

The 325 pump probably cost twice or more than the 705 or R15, and it's on another league. The 325 is a beast for home shop.

 

[shifterkart]

Wow great info on the quincy. Learn something new everyday. Didn't know they can hold up to 500psi or fascinating finding out other applications they were used for such as oil rigs. I believe quincy and champions were mostly used for scuba tank compressor setups as well. I couldn't find anything on saylor beall for that. I knew that quincy is owned by atlas and their lower end pumps are imported thats why i'm only looking at the 325 QR line. The 2nd pump is the 707 i believe even though it looks like the 9000. Its just a 705 with an extra head on it. what would be quincys equivalent to the 707? i have a devilbiss 432 at the moment which is a twin 2 stage that i'm selling so i'm guessing the 705 or 325 would be equivalent in cfm or their twin head counterparts.
i might look into how much more efficient the champion r15 are mentioned above. is it more efficient because its not pressure lubricated? how much more horsepower does a pressure lube rob vs splash lube? or is it just a better designed pump?

 

[MacMcMacmac]

If the 432 is in good shape you are wasting money replacing it. It is as good as any of the other mentioned. It is also capable of running at 7.5hp.

R15s are good, cool running pumps.

If the 707 is a 10hp, the equivalent Quincy would be a 350.

 

[zkling]

They are all good, high quality pumps. Throw the IR T30 series in there as well.
I'm partial to Quincy. I think they are a good design and very easy to work on, and to me they have been very supportive.

Comparing the 325 to the 5120 is about Ford ranger to F450. The 325 is one of if not their most sold pump they ever produced.

 

[A_Pmech]

I really like the 5120's, but they're waaay too much compressor for most garage shops. Mine draws the equivalent of about 110 amps of single phase at 175 PSI.

In the 10 HP and under category, you can't go wrong with any of the other pumps in the QR-25 line in my opinion. Most suffer from eventual HP piston pin bearing failure, so it pays to buy cheap and rebuild, or know what you're buying. "Eventual" means tens and tens of thousands of hours of operation, so once rebuilt they will last the rest of your life unless you run a sandblasting operation. The easy way to check for a rod bearing failure is to listen for a rattle that goes away as the compressor pumps up from 0 PSI. A tiny rattle is OK. If it sounds like a Diesel engine on starting fluid, it's time to rebuild.

I can also say the Champion compressors are very good. I've never owned one, but I've worked on several high-hour R-15's. Their main fault seems to be valves. (Quincy valves can also be cantankerous if the machine short cycles a lot and the seats rust.)

 

[shifterkart]

The devilbiss 432 is going to need a good rebuild which is going to cost me $600. I have a curtis c89 as well. I just figure for a little bit more money i'd try a saylor beall or a Quincy since i have never had one before, but just don't know which one. I like these bigger piston pumps that move more volume of air while turning slower which gives it this nice soothing thump chug sound to them. Sort of like the nice water trickling sound in the river, or that choo choo train kind of sound. not sure if i'm ready to put that money into the devilbiss yet. I've considered the ir t30 as well but they are now made in india and i hear they're not as good anymore. I still like their airtools the best but i don't think ingersoll customer service or quality is there anymore. Besides, i already had an ingersoll compressor. I'm more curious on the shootout between the saylor beall 705 vs Quincy 325, peoples experience with them, uses, ease of repair and rebuild, common problems, etc.

 

[shifterkart]

wow A_Pmech, just looked at the toys in your garage. That is very impressive. Seems you like nice industrial big heavy duty machinery as well. Very nice setup there. I did try to look for your compressor setup but didn't see it. i assume from all your nice toys that the compressor is a nice one as well whatever it is you have.

 

[shifterkart]

F
The 325 pump probably cost twice or more than the 705 or R15, and it's on another league. The 325 is a beast for home shop.

Could you elaborate on that? what is it that you think puts the 325 in another league?

 

[bsaint]

Pressure lube is great for places without climate control i.e. unheated garage. Its why I am looking at a PL-715 from SB.

 

[A_Pmech]

wow A_Pmech, just looked at the toys in your garage. That is very impressive. Seems you like nice industrial big heavy duty machinery as well. Very nice setup there. I did try to look for your compressor setup but didn't see it. i assume from all your nice toys that the compressor is a nice one as well whatever it is you have.

Shifter,

Thanks!

I have a Quincy 5120 and a little IR SS3-L.

 

[ffast65]

just rebuilt a Chamption R15B last year and they work very well.... Hard to beat the quality of any of the Quincy, the SB, or the champion.

 

[Trey T]

PL pumps are made to run continuous, like 24/7/365days. The valves on 325 is bigger and more robust than 705 or R15. So the PL feature on 325 just makes it on another league. Most pumps out there are not PL, they're splashed lubricated and cycle on/off frequent for cooling down.

If you're to run a 705 or R15 continuously like the 325, you'll wear out the crank much faster than normal or you'll have to change the oil more frequent bc of overheating.

I have a clone 705 and I'm half-way rebuild it but it's so damn heavy, like 200lbs, it's hard to service it and I have an upright 60gal. Same thing with the 325, that's why I prefer the R15 for home shop.

 

[shifterkart]

Hey thanks for the input. Although the saylor beall 705 comes with PL, without looking at the valves in person and holding it, its hard to tell how big they are but from all the pictures and videos i've been looking at, the quincys valves do look bigger and more robust. Seems like there's more to it. I wonder if there is anyone else that has valves as big and comparable to the quincy then. anyone know if the valves on the curtis, kellogg, wayne are as big?

 

[redmondjp]

Hey thanks for the input. Although the saylor beall 705 comes with PL, without looking at the valves in person and holding it, its hard to tell how big they are but from all the pictures and videos i've been looking at, the quincys valves do look bigger and more robust. Seems like there's more to it. I wonder if there is anyone else that has valves as big and comparable to the quincy then. anyone know if the valves on the curtis, kellogg, wayne are as big?

That depends upon the make and model of the pump you are talking about. For example, the Curtis E-57 pump (cast-iron, splash-lubricated 2-stage) uses reed valves. There are a lot of different makes and models of pumps out there, and there are some other very long compressor threads on this forum with pictures and details on most of them.

The downside to the head-mounted valves (this gleaned from reading several threads here) is that they can rust if not used frequently and long enough. I've never heard of that issue happening to reed valves. Plus, you typically need a spacial tool (spanner wrench or socket) to service the head-mounted valves.

 

[C96]

Saylor-Beall vote here, but of course I’m biased. All cast iron heads, cylinders, crankcase, intercooler etc… Hell, their built like a tank, virtually indestructible, a real tried and true machine since 1915.

Its no wonder their copied / cloned by so many. Eaton is a perfect example of this, they did such a good job at cloning the S-B it’s hard to tell the deference, but hey, if you’re going to copy something, might as well copy the best.

And, 100% USA made, I don’t believe the others mentioned here thus far can truly make that claim.

 

[shifterkart]

That depends upon the make and model of the pump you are talking about.

Whatever that would be equivalent that would be considered in the same competing class. Not sure what models would be thats what i was wondering.

 

[shifterkart]

Thanks for the input C96. I've always wondered about that clone thing. The greatest form of flattery is being copied i guess. I've seen a few discussions about the saylor beall clones but i've never seen any clones of the quincy 325 as far as i know of. i could be wrong. Wonder if SB sold licensing to make them or something else. Wonder why the 325 has not been cloned?

 

[bsaint]

The R15 pump has needle bearings in the connecting rod and large taper roller bearings on the crank ends. I've never seen them fail.

 

[shifterkart]

I have a clone 705 and I'm half-way rebuild it

Any deficiencies you find with your clone? Is it just as good or maybe better? Worth the money or savings? i'm curious.

 

[Trey T]

Any deficiencies you find with your clone? Is it just as good or maybe better? Worth the money or savings? i'm curious.

Just a little bit with the valves, which is minor. The air pathway of SB 705 vavles are properly milled. The clone one are simply drill with holes which has more surface area for stuff to cling onto.

Also, the crank of 325 (minus PL passage), 705, R15, and clone 705 is very similar from crankshalft to two different tpes of bearings used.

Clone 705

705

 

[shifterkart]

I guess more people are liking the Saylor Beall compressors according to the poll.