The VISES of Garage Journal

[bouncer254]

This 1965 8145 Wilton Cadet vise was the kind of project you devote yourself. In most cases it would have been more valuable as parts or scrap, but underneath the rust and looking beyond the cracked cast iron, there was a hard working tool wanting to work.

I have never TIG welded cast iron before. I had some great advice from a good friend, longtime welder and tool maker, KMScott. I used the right welding material, TIG Tectic 224 rod, and preheated the vise to around 500°F on my gas barbecue. Welding the cracks was not so bad, it was handling this incredibly hot chunk of metal while trying to weld. This particular vise was pretty abused and I had to fabricate a tab foot from some 4140 steel. The process was straight forward but the preheating was even more important due to the size of the welds. All the welding was done with urgency and focus and then each piece spent an hour or so stepping down the heat so the welded areas cooled down evenly, preventing fracturing.

The first inclination on a beat up chunk of metal is to grind the thing down smooth, in this case it would have been a drastic amount of material to remove. I opted to leave the working marks and my TIG welds, mostly to show what this vise has been through but also to maintain integrity. I also do not want to paint the vise as I plan on using it as a welding platform. Instead I gave the surface a fine buffing and a good coat of beeswax. I added a new set of Jaws, a new horseshoe washer both from KMScott, and a new set of copper jaw caps.

I still want to even out my finishing and I need to make sure the underside of the base remains rust free, but I had some welding work to do, It can wait a few more days. I took this on as a challenge and I ended up with a tool that will last long after I am gone. Learning new skills and renewing a beautiful tool was time and effort well spent.

 

[jakemac]

It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.

 

[LG63]

This happened because A.) I've been pumping out a lot of vises and tedium got the better of me and B.) I've been smelling a lot of paint fumes.

I sort of like the Allis Chalmers theme

 

[balane]

I waited and posted that one at the bottom of a page so it would be gone quickly.

 

[balane]

We will be back to our regularly scheduled programming shortly.

 

[tedsters]

Tedsters: I just found the 1957 catalog page on Outlaw's thread and correct me if i'm wrong, but Outlaw put the sentence above the catalog page saying that A & B vises were Columbian made. in the Ad on the actual catalog page the A & B are a non swivel and swivel base models of the 519x series of Craftsman vises.

Columbian could have made them, but more likely Rock Island or Starrett or maybe Reed did and since they were made after WWII records should be available and somebody that worked at Sears or the vise company should still be alive to tell us.

As far as i'm concerned we are still looking for some information on which company made these vises for Craftsman from the late 40's thru the 60's. anybody know for sure? if you are a non member and have documentation please join and post it for us. thanks

drives
ya know i really wish i did know who made them it sure would be helpful, i am kind of stumped here because no one has a the correct answer of who made them there all assumptions. I wish i had the right answer but theres alot of history with the 4 vise makers that you mentioned that i do not know, Yourself and a few others on here have a lot more knowledge then myself in this area. But it sure would be nice to come across some old magazines or tool books on the history of the Craftsman Vises

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: i know you and probably a few others think Columbian made the Craftsman 519x vises, but there are just too many other factors that are different than the other Columbian made Craftsman vises. Like Balane said the Rock Island vise with the same width jaw weighs the same, has the same style jaws and the date stamped on the 519x's is exactly like Rock Island used to do to their vises. since Rock Island was getting out of the vise business in the late 50's maybe they sold their patents to Columbian or maybe Starrett like i had an 80 year old machinist tell me that made them. their handles are definitely Starrett style and the vise nut that is split and has the easiest adjustable vise nut holder with a screw instead of the pins like so many old vises used seems like something Starrett would do. i do know one thing that the Craftsman 519x series vises are one of the best vises made during those years. one day maybe some clear cut answer will appear. for now let's just agree to disagree on the maker and both agree that they are a helluva vise.

Bouncer: AWESOME job replacing the foot on the Wilton cadet and can you post up a few pictures of the fix for the broken/cracked cast on the static on the lower part of the slide which would have been a deal killer for me. nice work and welcome again.

Balane: maybe you outdid yourself by staying up 24/7 to finish the Renton golden pile. you can say that is the primer coat or just wire wheel off the white, but what the heck your vises your color. you might have approached a whole new market with this one though.

 

[oldldh]

Drives---

I think I will go with Outlaw on the parentage of the 519X series...

But...

I would give a slight lean to Reed...

But...

I don't know what the hell I'm talking about...

I do know that 519X's are scarce down here on the Gulf Coast...

But---the search continues...

 

[tedsters]

heres the 106 parker done, i know one thing painting letters is harder then it looks you need the right brush for the job

 

[Outlawmws]

heres the 106 parker done, i know one thing painting letters is harder then it looks you need the right brush for the job

Guys have had pretty good luck "flat Stamping" them with a block and some paper towel or other absorbent material pulled over the block...

 

[KMScott]

Nice job Bouncer, boy was you quick you just picked that up a week ago. Hey I have a couple more for you. Looks like you got the welding figured out. Guys this vice was saved for parts, thats awesome. I'll send my welding to you.

 

[tedsters]

Guys have had pretty good luck "flat Stamping" them with a block and some paper towel or other absorbent material pulled over the block...

i need to get a handle on the lettering, i heard of some filing the letters down and sanding them i know the lettering on the vise would look good black i may just do it

 

[KMScott]

heres the 106 parker done, i know one thing painting letters is harder then it looks you need the right brush for the job

Nice job, it helps to if you are not a drinker for painting letters. I use a small model painting brush that is trimmed down, hardly any brush hairs, one dip per letter. I can paint letters pretty quickly but I do not drink alcohol just coffee.

The jaws show the typical Parker trait and are not parallel until you tighten something. I like it Tedsters.

 

[tedsters]

Nice job, it helps to if you are not a drinker for painting letters. I use a small model painting brush that is trimmed down, hardly any brush hairs, one dip per letter. I can paint letters pretty quickly but I do not drink alcohol just coffee.

The jaws show the typical Parker trait and are not parallel until you tighten something. I like it Tedsters.

Thanks, i have not drank any alcohol since Feb. 1996 and don't plan on it neither, but i do drink my share of coffee.
i have never painted letters on nothing till the front of that vise i know a good pair a sharp scissors will help with the brush

 

[trijeff]

Worth a look For Collectors near by.

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/tls/4972352124.html

To many pictures for me to grab sorry

Cypher

For anybody who is wondering, the 8" he has is a Yost 80C and is still available at $380. Not sure of the age or condition, don't think I saw it in the available photos. They are $675 new, so not that great of a deal at all imo.

 

[balane]

You guys are doing it the hard way!!

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/blog/?p=272

My hands shake a lot when I try to do small stuff and even an oaf like me can do it.

.

 

[KMScott]

Thanks Balane, that was a good read.

 

[tedsters]

balane
thanks for sharing that it was very helpful

 

[balane]

Oh yeah, Ted, meant to say that Parker is Bee-Ewe-Tee-Full!!!!!

 

[454ragtop]

You guys are doing it the hard way!!

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/blog/?p=272

My hands shake a lot when I try to do small stuff and even an oaf like me can do it.

.

I tried that method, still found it hard to control on the small lettering used on vises. The easiest I have found is a chisel tip Sharpie. I picked up some Sharpie paint pens I'm going to try if I ever get some spare time.
Jim

 

[trijeff]

Thanks Balane, that was a good read.

balane
thanks for sharing that it was very helpful

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: nice looking KIT there old man. hard to tell it's the same vise. nice work.

Awesome vise/vice Fretters. That thing looks rock solid.

Cheers chaps.

As to model number...

It's an "Elizabeth the Twoth"...

That makes it sound like a second generation, posh Goth.

Fretters,
They are SOLID IRON. Although mine has 3.5" jaws, it weighs over 60 pounds. I think that the body is more stout because of the possible weak area from the pivot jaw. Here's a before and some after pictures:

That looks good. Lovely work on the restoration Mark. Not too surprised by the weight for the size. You can tell just by looking, that's a Bulldog of a vice. That's one type of vice I'd merrily make bench space for.

Great job, in the traditional Fretters color.

Cheers. Didn't want to risk rocking the boat by experimenting with colours. I think I've inadvertently saddled myself with using that colour forever more now.

I really like that unit for a few reasons. First off it looks absolutely beefy, but the external jaw mounting screws, flat base fixed base mount unlike many fixed bases that have a 90° for extra support; and the quick release make it a very practical vise.

It's definitely served me well for nigh on twenty years, and should probably easily outlast me now she's properly fettled. This is the vice which started off my preference for the Parkinsons. When I first got it, it had been stuck out in a garden for weeks, and the owner was going to just skip it if I didn't want it. She's never skipped a beat whilst I've had her, and she's only ever had a minor fettle up 'til just. She's definitely feeling a lot smoother in operation now though.

For the remounting, I tried an idea I got from that old Parkinson of mine. There were a couple of copper sleeves in the bolt holes when I got that, so decided to make similar for this. They stop any thread on the bolt chafing the hole, and also act as a cone/crush washer, as the curve of the body near the bolt hole makes it awkward to get full surface contact with the nuts. They're no work of art, but they seem to do the job.

Let me encourage you. [emoji1] [emoji106]
I think it looks pretty darn cool and wouldn't be that difficult to do. (He says from a few thousand miles away)
I mean that vise has given so much service it deserves a bit more love and respect than just a simple (!) paint job.

Glad I'm not the only one who likes that. Both the youngest and the wife gave me one of 'those' looks when I asked their opinion on it. I honestly do like that addition of Balane's though. It's unique if nowt else. Can't decide whether a transfer or paint would be best/preferable though?

 

[Fretters]

BTW I have carpet in part of my shop too. And fatigue mats in front of my main benches.

What are fatigue mats?

 

[CwazyWabbit]

What are fatigue mats?

They're rubber or dense foam mats that make standing on concrete for hours less knackering.

 

[Fretters]

Ah, cheers. Wooden floor on top of slats in mine, (hence why the workshop floor now looks like an undulating ocean surface, due to the gradual effect of weight over time ), so not likely something I'd get much benefit from.

 

[Fretters]

Got this old Record 111 in the post today, 5 1/4" jaw. Its very well used, QR spring is broken so I will need to find one of those, need new jaw inserts and bolts really, QR rod is twisted and has be modified so it will work on the screw without using the QR. Spindle is very oval from handle wear.

That should clean up nicely. Is the spring completely knacked or just snapped at the end? Is the QR strip/rod just a piece of mild flat on those too? Should be simple enough to straighten or replace if so.

 

[Fretters]

This happened because A.) I've been pumping out a lot of vises and tedium got the better of me and B.) I've been smelling a lot of paint fumes.

Don't know if it's the colour combo or what, but that makes me think of a horse or cow.

 

[Garageguy54]

picked up this parker 87 the other day, had some time to clean it and lube it up. works great only problem is it has a crack in the tail of the slide, was going to braze it but i decided to leave it alone since its not doing any harm. GG54

 

[wrenchguy]

picked up this parker 87 the other day, had some time to clean it and lube it up. works great only problem is it has a crack in the tail of the slide, was going to braze it but i decided to leave it alone since its not doing any harm. GG54

nice, real nice.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

picked up this parker 87 the other day, had some time to clean it and lube it up. works great only problem is it has a crack in the tail of the slide, was going to braze it but i decided to leave it alone since its not doing any harm. GG54

You've done a lovely job on that, I like that look Nice to see the pipe jaws, that front one is incredibly long.

 

[tedsters]

Oh yeah, Ted, meant to say that Parker is Bee-Ewe-Tee-Full!!!!!

Thank you

 

[Garageguy54]

You've done a lovely job on that, I like that look Nice to see the pipe jaws, that front one is incredibly long.

That advertisement for the parker combination vise is awesome, thanks for showing it.GG54

 

[CwazyWabbit]

No probs, it's from the 1935 Buck and Hickman catalogue.

 

[NorthernHappenings]

Well.. y'all are intoxicating with these gorgeous vises. I'm in the process of moving back to the US & am looking to pick up an old vise for my future shop.

Preferably, an unbroken, covered screw, ~4 1/2" jaw, ~6" opening & square jaws. Swivel or non-swivel. I don't need rare or pretty. Just functional & good value. Naturally, American made & old are drivers as well. I've read through the "everything I need to know about vises" thread & am becoming baffled by the prices throughout Ebay & Craigslist. How cow sellers are proud of their iron!

So a few questions:
1. Anyone have a vise they'd like to part with?
2. As a baseline, this worn 4" Morgan on CL looks overpriced at $100. What you y'all realistically buy it for? http://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/4950831678.html
3. How is it best to ship vises? I will be returning to Bentonville, AR. Then shortly after, driving north to Alaska. Unfortunately I don't have time to stop at every CL post I read!!


Thanks for the wisdom & opinions. It's a blast reading this forum.

Thad

 

[bouncer254]

Garageguy54, the Parker looks outstanding! I am going to be embarking on my own restoration of a large Parker, I may seek out some wisdom from you when I retrieve the vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: i do like those copper sleeves for mounting your vise and looks like a great idea to keep the nut or washer from scraping up your new paint job. i'm not sure how often this happens, but i wonder how many vises have had a broken off cast foot from over tightening a bolt? it looks like your copper sleeve would help to keep that from happening too. maybe a Patent and make millions of those for all sorts of applications?

NH: welcome to our group and why would you ever leave Norway? sounds like maybe you are in the military or are you just making a few stops in the US before you head to Alaska.

i'm sure there are a lot of good choices if you want a nice old vise and get to know the guys on this thread and i'm sure one of us probably has one sitting on a shelf waiting to sell you maybe without shipping it. we haven't figured out how to ship across the pond yet without giving up an arm and a leg, but shipping in the US has a few options. for anything over 150 pounds i use Fastenal's shipping service that ships pallets across the US.

Almost any 4 or 5 inch old US or English made vise should work for about 90% of any work and depends how much time you want to spend looking for one on how much you might find a nice one for. i'm guessing in the areas you are heading that $100-150 should be in the price range for a good Reed, Morgan, Rock Island, Prentiss, Craftsman and several other vises in the 50-75 pound range. of course there are many other good vises and didn't want to write down the hundreds of them and just picked a few of my favorites. Wilton bullets and tradesman vises tend to sell for a bit more in case you like them better.

good luck on your move and your search for a vise.

 

[vintage nut]

I have started looking at the swivel jaw prentiss vises. Kinda thinking of hunting a decent ebay deal on one sometime.. Just gonna wait until side work and selling some stuff pays for it. Thinking it could be really handy in the machine shop

you can never have too many tools

 

[bagged89s10]

picked up this parker 87 the other day, had some time to clean it and lube it up. works great only problem is it has a crack in the tail of the slide, was going to braze it but i decided to leave it alone since its not doing any harm. GG54

Nice vise. Those things are huge.


~Veeps

 

[Garageguy54]

Garageguy54, the Parker looks outstanding! I am going to be embarking on my own restoration of a large Parker, I may seek out some wisdom from you when I retrieve the vise.

Thank you, when you get ready to start restoring that parker post here any of your questions. The guys on here are full of knowledge on how to restore,breakdown and repair different vises as well as anything else you can come up with.

 

[bouncer254]

Here are the before and after photos of my Wilton 8145 Cadet. The base of the main body was cracked pretty significantly. I did not want to weld inside due to the tolerances and I really did not want to have to machine anything I ground the cracks and drilled out the ends, so the crack would not continue. I preheated all the parts and slowly started to TIG weld each crack and piece. I would not allow the part to cool down much so I kept my welds short and then back on the barbecue. I used Eutectic's TIG Tectic 224 as a filler and the new material was a 4140 steel, the new tab foot. Truly the hardest part was handling the 500°+F parts. After welding was done I placed everything back on the barbecue and slowly stepped down the temperature. It took about three hours from preheat to finish. I let things settle overnight and then did a clean up and assembly. Thanks to KMScott for the wisdom and encouragement to tackle this project.