I know Black Iron Pipe for Air but?............

[JohnMcD348]

I have read alot here and see the consensus for air line in the garage is the Black Iron pipe. I was looking at it the other day at Lowe's and right next to it was a Black PCV type pipe. Is this the equivalent "plastic" pipe for use in air plumbing? I didn't see anything to say for certain and I don't remember exactly what the schedule class was on it. Just wondering since I was thinking of plumbing my garage also so that I could have a few points to plug into and be able to cover my compressor and quiet it down a bit.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Most likely the answer is no. No PVC pipe as far as I know is rated for compressed air. Now, what you saw may have been ABS - there is at least one brand of ABS pipe that's rated for compressed air, but it's unlikely you'd find it in Lowe's.

 

[nate379]

You can use PVC/ABS pipe for air but alot of places don't allow it (Industry). If it breaks with pressure in the line it can shrapnel.

That being said, my Dad has PVC in his shop and it's been fine for the past 10-12 years.

 

[mikeyr]

Stay with Black pipe or Copper that black PVC stuff is for sewer lines I think, its still not for air.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have read alot here and see the consensus for air line in the garage is the Black Iron pipe. I was looking at it the other day at Lowe's and right next to it was a Black PCV type pipe. Is this the equivalent "plastic" pipe for use in air plumbing? I didn't see anything to say for certain and I don't remember exactly what the schedule class was on it. Just wondering since I was thinking of plumbing my garage also so that I could have a few points to plug into and be able to cover my compressor and quiet it down a bit.

Just remember to use black iron pipe, or you can use copper of the heavier type (I do not recall if it is L type or whatever, but it is thicker walled copper tubing) and you will never go wrong.

Forget all about whatever schedule the plastic pipe is cause it really does not matter the ONLYplastic pipe suitable for use with compressed air systems is labeled as "Suitable for compressed air systems"

Really, the whole issue is just that easy. You will not find the plastic pipe I referred to at a big box, I do not even recall the name of the stuff because it was so cost prohibitive it was not worth consideration for a system!

Follow those basic rules and you will do just fine.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Most likely the answer is no. No PVC pipe as far as I know is rated for compressed air. Now, what you saw may have been ABS - there is at least one brand of ABS pipe that's rated for compressed air, but it's unlikely you'd find it in Lowe's.

I would bet my last dollar it would not be found at a big box.

 

[PurdueSD]

The biggest issues with plastic/ PVC pipe for compressed air aren't concerns about pressure...

The concern is impact and the resulting shattering/ shrapnel as said above.

... another big down fall of plastic = the water vapor will not seperate out of the air effectively.

 

[nadogail]

Plastic Pipe from the Big Box store for compressed air?

Not only NO, But MOST EMPHATICALY NO!!

 

[krooser]

Use the search feature and you'll find several years of posts about this subject...

 

[Torque1st]

You can use PVC/ABS pipe for air but alot of places don't allow it (Industry). If it breaks with pressure in the line it can shrapnel.

That being said, my Dad has PVC in his shop and it's been fine for the past 10-12 years.

Then we have nate that should know better and he should be replacing that dangerous **** in his Dad's shop...

You CAN NOT use PVC/ABS for compressed air!
Even the manufacturers say NO!!!

 

[nate379]

Yes you can.

I don't think it's a great idea, but it's doable.

PEX would be a better idea, but the PVC thing was before PEX was mainstream.

 

[Torque1st]

No Nate, you can't! It is not allowed by anyone, not even the manufacturers that would LOVE to sell more product.

 

[nate379]

PVC can be used for airlines, just it's not the best choice. LIKE I SAID 3 OR 4TIMES NOW. PERIOD.

"Allowed" by who? There is no airline code last time I checked.

It isn't allowed by OSHA that's for sure, but OSHA often dumbs down the rules/regs to protect the DEE-DEE-DEEs.

I haven't heard of PVC just blowing up other than when it was run into with a forklift, bench, hammer, etc. It gets -50* in my Dad's shop... been fine for about 12 years now. Hmmm.

 

[Brad54]

Nate, we're not saying it isn't POSSIBLE to run PVC air lines, we're saying it SHOULD NOT be done.

I've been in two shops when the lines blew. Nobody got hurt, but the potential is there.

Now, I've been to a shop in Floriduh that plumbed their lines with galvanized tubing--the same type of stuff as black pipe, but with the silver galvanized finish. He chose this because black pipe would rust over time in Floriduh's humidity. He'd had it up over 25 years when I was visiting his place regularly. It looked good, and I believe it's a little cheaper than black pipe.
-Brad
edit: I just read where Nate said he's only heard of lines blowing when damaged--I've actually been in two shops at the instant the lines burst. One was along a wall, the other was in a metal building and was up near the trusses. No damage had ever occurred to those lines. They just burst. One while I was using an impact on my '54 Buick. THAT will make you go "What the hell?!"

-B

 

[Torque1st]

Nate, no building code allows it, no plumbing code allows it, no PVC pipe manufacturer allows it, no ABS pipe manufacturer allows it (except for one special ABS product). No licensed plumber would install it. OSHA disallows it for very good reason to protect people from people like you.

PVC CAN NOT BE USED FOR AIR LINES -PERIOD.

Like I said, bell wire and zip cord can be used to make lights work but only fools do it and only fools or very ignorant people use PVC pipe for air lines.

 

[Torque1st]

One shop I visit had a section of PVC air line blow in the middle of the night, nobody around or even using air...

 

[knucklehead]

i have used 1/2" pvc for the last 23 years with ZERO issues in my home shop. i keep my compressor on 24/7 with the line pressure at 150 lbs. again ZERO issues. galv. or black iron pipe would be a pain in the *** to install. if you are afraid of using pvc then i suggest using copper. that is the best way to go & much faster / cleaner / better than threaded pipe.

 

[Torque1st]

Knuckle, you are on borrowed time. Take a weekend and change it out.

 

[nate379]

A shop I worked at had it happen almost weekly during the night with rubber air lines and it happened with a few iron pipes too. We did run everything at 150-175psi though.

Compressors had no problems pushing the air either. 2 BIG ones running together. 200 CFM.

One shop I visit had a section of PVC air line blow in the middle of the night, nobody around or even using air...

 

[Torque1st]

Nate, Iron pipes may have a joint crack from rust. Copper can go from bending etc. When metal pipe fails it may raise some dust but it just leaks. The trouble with PVC is when it fails it blows like a grenade throwing sharp plastic shrapnel in all directions. In that shop a 3' section of the overhead pipe just shredded itself and threw fragments all over the shop. PVC is very dangerous. Do your Dad a favor on his B-day etc and change his PVC out before a grand kid gets hurt.

 

[nate379]

Eh, not too worried about it, plus my folks live 4500 miles from me.

 

[Torque1st]

Makes it kind of difficult then, but then you should get back there sometime.

 

[oldgoat]

I have a neighbor that plumbed his air lines with PVC and hasn't had a problem with it. However since I know of no company or code that allows PVC to be used I would go with either the copper or pipe. Maybe there is a good chance that nothing will happen with using PVC, but do you want to be there if it blows?

 

[RobSmith]

The arguments are fierce. Maybe I would go with metal pipes. I work in a power station and all air lines are metal...for longevity. PCV seems to deteriorate over time and ABS is expensive. As Plastics expand and contract under pressure....go metal. Their fatigue life is much longer.

 

[Uncle Buck]

PVC can be used for airlines, just it's not the best choice. LIKE I SAID 3 OR 4TIMES NOW. PERIOD.

"Allowed" by who? There is no airline code last time I checked.

It isn't allowed by OSHA that's for sure, but OSHA often dumbs down the rules/regs to protect the DEE-DEE-DEEs.

I haven't heard of PVC just blowing up other than when it was run into with a forklift, bench, hammer, etc. It gets -50* in my Dad's shop... been fine for about 12 years now. Hmmm.

The codes you don't know anything about are called ASME codes, these are the codes that govern pressure vessels and airline type applications. Just cause you don't know anything about them does not mean that the safety guidelines for this kind of application do not exist. All that means is YOU are ignorant of the guidelines.

BTW: For OSHA to write employers a citation for this issue there must be a written rule the agency can reference somewhere. They can't just snake stuff like this out of thin air as you seem to think they can, but I guess OSHA is just something else you know all about.

i have used 1/2" pvc for the last 23 years with ZERO issues in my home shop. i keep my compressor on 24/7 with the line pressure at 150 lbs. again ZERO issues. galv. or black iron pipe would be a pain in the *** to install. if you are afraid of using pvc then i suggest using copper. that is the best way to go & much faster / cleaner / better than threaded pipe.

Congratulations on your great success thus far. I am sure things are as you say, I have heard such stories on countless occasions. It is like anything else related to worker safety, you can do something 1000 times before, then at 1001 you get maimed or killed. Regardless your great success, recognized best practices for the installation of air lines in any facility would not include the use of any kind of pipe/tubing not designed by the manufacturer for such an installation. (sometimes I wonder if there is a cave somewhere that all these guys live in or something!)

Nate, Iron pipes may have a joint crack from rust. Copper can go from bending etc. When metal pipe fails it may raise some dust but it just leaks. The trouble with PVC is when it fails it blows like a grenade throwing sharp plastic shrapnel in all directions. In that shop a 3' section of the overhead pipe just shredded itself and threw fragments all over the shop. PVC is very dangerous. Do your Dad a favor on his B-day etc and change his PVC out before a grand kid gets hurt.

Nice idea, explaining the difference, but I assure you Nate here has been drooling and dragging his knuckles about far too long to be swayed by your FACTS/TRUTHS!

 

[porschedude996TT]

Is there a Code that governs compressed air in a residential situation? As a private person in my house there are many laws that do not apply simply because it is not an industrial situation. OSHA or Cal OSHA are not applicable because it is again, not an industry.

After saying that, my inspector was concerned about me using some PVC fittings that I had for testing purposes on my natural gas line at 30 psi and he about fainted when I said that I held the test before hand at 100 psi. My new shop build has ¾” Type “L” Copper which is the middle wall thickness. “K” is the thickest, followed by “L” and “M” is the thinnest. My local building department made me state that there was no Type “M” copper pipe in the water service on my plans. I don’t think there are any laws that would prevent someone from using the pipe for other reasons than intended, but common sense must prevail or Darwin’s Theory will prevail.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Schedule 40 PVC sprinkler pipe used for compressed air although I currently have it installed in my existing garage. I installed it 15 years ago and have kept it charged to 100 or so psi the whole time. When I installed it there was no GJ or other sites that I could tap into to gain the knowledge of the masses. I don’t condone the use of the sprinkler pipe for Compressed Air any longer and plan to remove the system when my shop is complete. The biggest problem is that it is a bomb ready to go off and if something strikes it, “boom!” you have plastic chards everywhere. “Now that will put your eye out”.

I guess it is down to economics, copper and black pipe are more expensive. I guess my question is what is your child’s or wife’s eyes worth?

 

[twostory]

Just to sum up the answer to the question, think about it this way.

Can you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (yes you can)

Should you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (no).

This whole air line debate is getting old. There are many good safety reason to not used plastic pipe for air systems, so don't.

 

[accord driver]

In my opinion I would go with whatever you feel comfortable with. I plan on running copper just because I'm comfortable working with it and I don't plan on running it in area's where I will hit it with vehicles or equipment.

Jsut my 2 cents

 

[thdewey]

Anybody ever wonder why the big box stores don't sell a product specially for air lines? Like the Garage Pak or simular. These are coated aluminium, I think.

 

[GN4WHLN]

I don’t condone the use of the sprinkler pipe for Compressed Air any longer and plan to remove the system when my shop is complete. The biggest problem is that it is a bomb ready to go off and if something strikes it, “boom!” you have plastic chards everywhere. “Now that will put your eye out”.

I guess it is down to economics, copper and black pipe are more expensive. I guess my question is what is your child’s or wife’s eyes worth?

I don't see it as a big deal to go copper or black pipe in terms of cost or work. I went copper because it is easier to fit and like porshedude996TT said, what is the safety of your family worth? I would hate to have any of them hurt or my dog hurt or my cars damaged. It just doesn't seem like that much money or work to plumb a 2 or 3 car garage and have the peace of mind that you have done it right. Personally, I prefer overengineered to maybe I'll get away with it. Living in the patron state of law suits, I would hate to get sued over a shrapnel wound and have to be cross examined by some attorney asking me why I used a type of pipe not suitable for gas pressure. No one is goning to give a damn then about cost, opinion, or how some other lucky ******* got away with it for 20 years running 200 psi through SCH 200 thinwall PVC. This just seems like a real easy place to do the right thing.

 

[flesburg]

I really prefer copper over iron because of ease of installation and weight etc., and the fact that I do not have to cut threads. I have also used 1/2" copper with 175# of air in it and have minimal pressure drop at 70' of pipe. So I did not use 3/4" on my most recent install.

I have seen 4" pvc pipe used on low pressure high volume air lines (20 psi out of Lamson blowers?) and develop an aneurism a foot in diameter. Looked like it was going to blow at any minute. Scared the hell out of me. It was up in the bar joists and probably 20' above the floor. I had it cut down and replaced with iron pipe. Back in the early 80's I used some plastic pipe to "plumb" a garage with some airlines, but I only had it hooked up to a 1 HP portable compressor that maybe made 100 psi. After my experience with the pvc, I would never use plastic again.

 

[kbs2244]

You could wrap chicken wire around the PVC to contain the pices when it blows.

 

[akdiesel]

Just to sum up the answer to the question, think about it this way.

Can you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (yes you can)

Should you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (no).

This whole air line debate is getting old. There are many good safety reason to not used plastic pipe for air systems, so don't.

Well said.

 

[boiler7904]

Anybody ever wonder why the big box stores don't sell a product specially for air lines? Like the Garage Pak or simular. These are coated aluminium, I think.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with sales volume vs. the store's overhead cost of shelf space and keeping the product in stock.

You're correct. Those types of products are usually coated aluminum.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Is there a Code that governs compressed air in a residential situation? As a private person in my house there are many laws that do not apply simply because it is not an industrial situation. OSHA or Cal OSHA are not applicable because it is again, not an industry.
I guess it is down to economics, copper and black pipe are more expensive. I guess my question is what is your child’s or wife’s eyes worth?

AGREED!


No OSHA laws or standards apply to homes, OSHA regulations only apply to businesses that have employees. This always comes up during this discussion, you can do just about any stupid unsafe stuff you like in your own home, after all, the only people you can hurt there are yourself , or your loved ones eh. So as long as no employees are there do as you wish!

 

[Uncle Buck]

You could wrap chicken wire around the PVC to contain the pices when it blows.

Agreed, any ol half assed way should get the job done right?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Just to sum up the answer to the question, think about it this way.

Can you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (yes you can)

Should you drive you car sh!t faced drunk? (no).

This whole air line debate is getting old. There are many good safety reason to not used plastic pipe for air systems, so don't.

You have no idea how stale this ol fart has become!

 

[-B-]

PVC= compressed air = dumb as dumb as holding a hand grenade with the pin pulled for an indefinite amount of time.

There is a major difference between fluid pressure and gas pressure usually three time of a difference.


If that all dose not convince anyone try this one on when the "accident" happens be prepared to pay all expenses out of you pocket as neither you home owners nor health insurance will be valid after the "accident" . Both will not consider it under their coverages as you have willingly gone against recommendations and common knowledge you gained by posting on this forum. ( your post here are evidence of knowledge)

 

[walrus]

All this talk about blk iron, why not use galvanized pipe

 

[-B-]

All this talk about blk iron, why not use galvanized pipe

Not easy to find in proper pressure rating, not a real good heat sink either.