Buying tools is ridiculous, no?

[eborcim]

I didn't start this thread because I am in this situation... But I once was many years ago.

I like how someone says "if your making min wage, it's your own fault" really?!?! Tell me how a high school drop out changing oil is to make more? Go to your next job and lie about your skills? You'll get fired in a week. The problem is the industry, not the worker... Reason for me starting this thread.

Problem is not the industry. Problems are 1)the government forcing the industry to hire at minimum wage, 2) people knowing they can get basic job and never have to improve themselves or work more effectively, and 3) us allowing it to happen and continue to happen.

This is happening in my family, one of my distant nephews got a good paying job for rural Missouri, packing sliced cheese into boxes (~9.50/hr). He has his HS diploma but not very work motivated. Plus he did not want to move away from his non-working girlfriend, so ended up driving 90 miles round trip to work. He quit, complaining he couldn't make enough money. I know the town he worked in has reasonable rent. He could have afforded a place there rather than burning it up in gas and time to get there. GF is now pregnant and the cycle he started out in will continue.

 

[GTA Matt]

Why is it every thread I go to post something in, you have usually already posted exactly what I was going to?

Maybe great minds think alike? Hahaha. I agreed with what a few people have said already, but not that its entirely the industries fault. I've worked with enough people that would rather complain then take initiative. A big problem is the 'techs' themselves. I'm using that term loosely.

He's psychic (and he already knew I was going to post this too). [emoji106]

I did!

 

[Sal Bandini]

Problem is not the industry. Problems are 1)the government forcing the industry to hire at minimum wage, 2) people knowing they can get basic job and never have to improve themselves or work more effectively, and 3) us allowing it to happen and continue to happen.

Spot on with #1. There should be no minimum wage.

 

[Skin]

if you crack a headlight changing a bulb, your boss makes you eat it.

Don't know if this has been stated already but anything like that is illegal. Get them on record of trying to do that and you'll have their *** in the ringer. They have insurance for a reason.

 

[RedneckWelder]

You have to work hard around here not to finish high school (all they want is you to have a pulse) and there are plenty of paths into the technical fields around here. All it takes is hard work, dedication, and paying attention to climb the ladder.

Personally, I LOVE my job as a mechanic. It's hard, dirty, greasy, nasty work much of the time but it's working with and for a bunch of great people who treat me like an equal and look out for me and take the time to teach me...and they pay me pretty well.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Don't know if this has been stated already but anything like that is illegal. Get them on record of trying to do that and you'll have their *** in the ringer. They have insurance for a reason.

That's the law but they don't care. I worked for a billion dollar company that would with hold your check. I even got hours taking out for unrelated issues

 

[toddoky]

The average income for a mechanic these days is just over 39k per year, so one must consider that fact when choosing to pursue a career in the industry. I got out many years ago while there was still time to change career paths and I and my family are fortunate that I made that choice.

 

[Gmonkee]

Not all are destined to become the next CEO wherever they work. Moving up anyplace there are natural and artificial limits that most will hit.
I worked in a nice retaurant with a guy who had been washing dishes there 15 years. His off nights l was in his place and doing my maintence job as need be. There were degreed waitresses that wanted to be manager and had the schooling to prove it. The place had two owners that managed it and needed far more waitresses than they had.

Most places when l moved up enough that the job and the money worked well for me I'd refuse promotions. Got fired for that once and quit twice when the forced it upon me. l didn't want to be the ace at diagnostics in the last shop, wasn't qualified to start with. When I was not getting the stuff right they hired another that insisted I stick to basics like brakes and suspension and he didn't understand at first when I thanked him. To him it was an insult and to me it was the right move.

Every place has its rules beyond the laws and those apply to management as well as the staff. You cannot force something that simply will not work.

 

[Ruger_556]

The average income for a mechanic these days is just over 39k per year.

I make more than that less than a year out of tech school

 

[JonDick13926]

Just out of curiosity, those of you who did change career from working in the automotive field (specifically light duty vehicle work), what exactly did you move on to and how difficult of a transition was it (as in difficult, I mean how hard was it to convince someone/someplace to hire you with only experience working on cars, and how hard was it for you to learn the new line of work?)

 

[jd_1138]

There is a distinct difference between managing a McDonald's and being a burger flipper. A burger really could be flipped by a chimp. Ding fries are done I can't wait until they're done with cashiers completely at fast food restaurants as I'd rather use a touch screen and put in my own order anyway, more likely to be right that way.

No, a chimp would stick your hamburger up their **** before handing it to you and would burn themselves on the grill.

My friend who's a fast food manager has said several times that the proverbial "burger flippers" have an unfair rep. A lot of people can't handle fast food work -- too many corporate policies to follow, food safety rules, hard work, etc..

 

[toddoky]

I make more than that less than a year out of tech school

That's great for you, but it doesn't change the average.

 

[SantaAna12]

Re: Buying tools is rediculous, no?

Hookers and mechanics are the only jobs where you work on your back and get fucked by the hour. Only one has to go into debt on the tool truck...

Hah!

Now about those damn Dairy Queen girls........Which bar they hang out at again?

 

[Anarius]

The dealer "flat rate" pay system does **** a lot of times, and a lot of dealers are horrible places to work, but that doesn't mean good-paying automotive jobs are not there. I work for a family owned tire and repair chain that has over EIGHTY locations. I work in about the 4th or 5th lowest sales store in the company...and therefore I am one of the lowest paid mechanics at my level (which is our highest), and I work far above the average hours for "senior" auto techs in the company - I average about 64 hrs a week.

And I still make really good money. My worst year in recent memory was "only" 76k. Last year I did 92k. Techs at other locations routinely make 115-120k. I believe the highest pay was 137K for wrench turner. We ALL work our asses off, but the pay is great.

I'm not saying this to brag - I've worked for years at shops where I'd bust my **** and make 40k a year...but I didn't have the skills, training, or experience then either. I taught myself a lot, I stuck my nose and hand in every job in the shop to see what was being done and how, and I took classes. Both those offered by vendors/suppliers and at trade schools and community colleges.

My lowest paid job EVER as a "mechanic" was $14.30 / hr. FAR above minimum wage.

Getting back to the subject at hand, "buying tools is ridiculous" then I disagree. Yes, we as techs buy more $ in personal tools than any other industry that I know of. But auto repair and how techs do it varies greatly. The tools I use for a particular job are not the same as my coworker does. I wish employers did a better job of supplying "special" tools. But really guys, would you WANT to work with the cheapest **** your work can buy in bulk?

 

[JonDick13926]

Re: Buying tools is rediculous, no?

Hookers and mechanics are the only jobs where you work on your back and get fucked by the hour. Only one has to go into debt on the tool truck...

Hah!

Now about those damn Dairy Queen girls........Which bar they hang out at again?

The ones that don't ID.

 

[toddoky]

There are those who find themselves in mechanic employment situations that pay higher than the industry average, but there are also those who end up making far less. The flat-rate system of pay can be brutal and it's what led me to leave the industry for better opportunities and the chance to have more time availble for other personal interests. I normally work no more than 45 hours a week.

 

[RedneckWelder]

"Getting back to the subject at hand, "buying tools is ridiculous" then I disagree. Yes, we as techs buy more $ in personal tools than any other industry that I know of. But auto repair and how techs do it varies greatly. The tools I use for a particular job are not the same as my coworker does. I wish employers did a better job of supplying "special" tools. But really guys, would you WANT to work with the cheapest **** your work can buy in bulk? "

My own tools give me the freedom to leave my current shop and go to either another shop or work for myself...or if I lose my current job then I have the tools necessary to support myself.

 

[Anarius]

Precisely!

If employer "A" provides a nice set of snap-on tools for each employee, and then kicks me to the curb and I have to work for employer "B" who provides me with a #2 Phillips and a 5lb sledge, I won't be productive at "B" and therefore won't be at "B" for long.

 

[toddoky]

It's also nice to have a boat load of nice tools at home to work on your own chit if you ever get out of the racket. It's rare that I ever need to purchase a tool anymore after acummulating them for so many years in the trade.

 

[1950mercury]

I didn't start this thread because I am in this situation... But I once was many years ago.

I like how someone says "if your making min wage, it's your own fault" really?!?! Tell me how a high school drop out changing oil is to make more? Go to your next job and lie about your skills? You'll get fired in a week. The problem is the industry, not the worker... Reason for me starting this thread.

That makes no sense...if all your doing is changing oil, you should get min wage to start,.it doesnt take much skill to change oil

 

[toddoky]

If you're just starting out in any trade you have to expect to be paid near the bottom of the earning scale. In order for you to earn more money you have to bring a proven work ethic, specialized skills and experience to the table...that all comes with time on the job. Learn from the experienced guys around you and let those in positions above you know you are eager to pursue growth opportunities.

 

[malykaii]

Alot of these posts remind me of why I left everyday wrenching and went to UPS

better pay and benefits

And I come home a bit sweaty and dusty but a quick shower takes care of that

All my tool purchasing and hoarding is for personal use and the occasional side job

EXACTLY!!!! I hit my one year mark at UPS the other day. Greatest wrenching job ever. Work 5 days, significantly less hours, yet way more pay then ever before. And the benefits! Being in Manhattan we have the oldest trucks in the country. I still have six 1985 GMCs with drum brakes in my fleet. Remember onans? Got 10. So yes, it's dirty work... But I felt dirtier working in consumer auto repair. Now I don't have to lie to my boss or upsell customers.

Best part, I finally gave up on the auto industry and tried to change careers as UPS finally called back.

 

[malykaii]

100th post btw.

I didn't start this thread as I'm in the underpaid lube position. I very quickly advanced and dug my way out of that hole, only to quit the industry all together and then return to wrench for UPS.

It is survival of the fittest, and it's unfortunate that there are a lot of derpy high school drop outs in the industry who have a kid by age 19. I guess my point is that while its their own fault for being dumb, the industry is also preying on them. Between pay to play schools like Devry and snap on trying to make a quick buck on them, I just feel bad for all these less fortunate guys I've worked with and maybe even surpassed at this point.

 

[malykaii]

How does a C Tech make min wage? My nephew is 19 just got a job at one of the rental companies taking in the cars as they come in and cleaning them. He makes $11 and has no skills and almost no work history.

Its true. Second, that's exactly my point. Even if the C level tech also gets 11 an hour, he needs tools so deduct $50 a week. Then if he breakes something, then that's another $50 off that week. Hence, now your essentially down to min wage.

Yet, no one asked your nephew to bring his own industrial grade vacume cleaner, gloves, and Windex.

 

[rodsnratfinks]

My .02:
Everyone acts like you have to buy 20k worth of tools off the truck in your first five years as a tech. Of course, you start with a 5k+ box that you will begin filling up with new jewelry ...I mean, tools, until you have sizes 6mm - 36mm in nearly every drive format, a 30 piece set of screwdrivers, 10 ratchets, 12 hammers, 27 pliers, etc. that stuff is good to have, but you don't need it just starting out, and not all of it has to be Snap On.

Instant gratification and ego are the main reasons that guys feel like they can't get ahead in this profession.


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[jd_1138]

I was reading an antique magazine from like 1925, and I saw an ad in there for a correspondence course that taught general mechanics. It said "your tuition comes with a complete set of professional grade tools!" and then it showed a 75 piece set (Plomb branded) with SAE wrenches, sockets, 2 ratchets, 2 breaker bars, some extensions, 5 screw drivers. It was so quaint to see what little you needed back then to be a mechanic.

 

[thegroundpounder99]

If I understand you correctly, then yes I agree if you're a hourly employee making the minimum then it's kind of hard to expect you to bring your own tools or purchase them. I get that part, but if somebody wants to be a mechanic or make a decent living in this field the tools are part of the deal. I'm a flat rate tech at a diesel shop and I started w/ not a whole lot and now i stay cause I don't want to move the stuff I got. It all works out if you play the game right.

 

[twertsy]

I was reading an antique magazine from like 1925, and I saw an ad in there for a correspondence course that taught general mechanics. It said "your tuition comes with a complete set of professional grade tools!" and then it showed a 75 piece set (Plomb branded) with SAE wrenches, sockets, 2 ratchets, 2 breaker bars, some extensions, 5 screw drivers. It was so quaint to see what little you needed back then to be a mechanic.

Wonder if you can still get the complete NOS Plomb stuff for signing up!?

 

[malykaii]

... and ego are the main reasons that guys feel like they can't get ahead in this profession

Now that you mention it... Now that I recall a lot of guys I've worked with... They did have ego issues. A lot of them carried around pictures of their snap on boxes with them and that was one of their first key points during job interviews.

 

[neophyte]

My .02:
Everyone acts like you have to buy 20k worth of tools off the truck in your first five years as a tech. Of course, you start with a 5k+ box that you will begin filling up with new jewelry ...I mean, tools, until you have sizes 6mm - 36mm in nearly every drive format, a 30 piece set of screwdrivers, 10 ratchets, 12 hammers, 27 pliers, etc. that stuff is good to have, but you don't need it just starting out, and not all of it has to be Snap On.

Instant gratification and ego are the main reasons that guys feel like they can't get ahead in this profession.


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It's hard to become a professional if you don't actually have access to a complete assortment of tools, a professional will use, to learn on.

Learning to improvise, or use alternative methods may also be important, but using industry standard tools, to complete a repair in an industry standard way, is important to show other professionals who work with you, or around you, or may be there to evaluate you, that you know what the hell you're doing.

 

[TheRobotCow]

One of my co-workers is an example of this thread. This guy worked at another toyota for 3 years, was still a lube tech and was required to supply his own tools while paid at minimum wage. If you let them bend you over and have their way than it's on you. Once i discovered that McDonald's pays more than my job that was the last straw. I got about a month left at my job.

People need to value themselves at a higher standard. If you don't like your job do something about it. Put in the effort and you can make the change happen. Life is too short to be working somewhere you don't like, that'll just make you miserable.

As far as buying tools, for me i've been wanting to buy tools from Snap On and the others tool trucks and i'm really happy with my purchases and most likely i'll still continue to buy from these guys.

 

[jonjon1]

If you are making a career in automotive service you need to have a plan of some sort end every plan has to start somewhere, its up to you not to be stalled there.

If I was starting in your business, I would find the best job I could, while working I would build a tool arsenal, and keep looking for a better position, either internally or outside of the starting job, while doing work on the side and what ever I could to get by... Become the best at what you do and keep getting educated.

Or you can just stay in the same place and ***** about how terrible it is? See which gets you further...

 

[rodsnratfinks]

It's hard to become a professional if you don't actually have access to a complete assortment of tools, a professional will use, to learn on.



Learning to improvise, or use alternative methods may also be important, but using industry standard tools, to complete a repair in an industry standard way, is important to show other professionals who work with you, or around you, or may be there to evaluate you, that you know what the hell you're doing.

Sure, but the necessity is that they have sufficient tools. That's fine. No employer I've had cared whether those tools were snap on or harbor freight as long as you are proficient with them. Some tools should be high quality, others don't have to be. And it doesn't all have to be brand new.

I'm seeing a lot of 21 year old first year techs that have 10-15k worth of tools and box always calling tool trucks the '**** train'. Well, you can't **** the willing!


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[ttpete]

If you are making a career in automotive service you need to have a plan of some sort end every plan has to start somewhere, its up to you not to be stalled there.

If I was starting in your business, I would find the best job I could, while working I would build a tool arsenal, and keep looking for a better position, either internally or outside of the starting job, while doing work on the side and what ever I could to get by... Become the best at what you do and keep getting educated.

Or you can just stay in the same place and ***** about how terrible it is? See which gets you further...

I'd think that the way to go would be to forget about passenger vehicles and get into areas where the vehicles are used to make money, things like ag or construction equipment. When one of those goes down, it's an investment that's not making money for the owner, and will get fixed immediately.

 

[Kracin]

Its true. Second, that's exactly my point. Even if the C level tech also gets 11 an hour, he needs tools so deduct $50 a week. Then if he breakes something, then that's another $50 off that week. Hence, now your essentially down to min wage.

Yet, no one asked your nephew to bring his own industrial grade vacume cleaner, gloves, and Windex.

who pays 200/400 a month on tool bills... the problem isnt the cost of the tools its the people who do loans with tool trucks. you could rack up 20k on a credit card and not pay 200 a month if you got yourself decent credit..

 

[abvw]

One of my co-workers is an example of this thread. This guy worked at another toyota for 3 years, was still a lube tech and was required to supply his own tools while paid at minimum wage. If you let them bend you over and have their way than it's on you. Once i discovered that McDonald's pays more than my job that was the last straw. I got about a month left at my job.

You only need like 10 tools to be a lube tech in Toyota:
14mm wrench
21/22 flip socket
80ft-lb torque stick
1/2" drive impact wrench
1/2" torque wrench
2 Toyota specific oil filter caps and a universal filter wrench
tire pressure gauge/inflator

All those can be had for less than $300, if you bought a piece a week you'd be well equipped as a lube tech in 3 months. Buying tools will advance your career, the more you acquire the more you can do. If you're not willing to invest in yourself then there's no room for advancement.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I remember when I got bumped to a shop rat the shop didn't require you to own your own tools... but my first day there I noticed all the *real* mechanics and apprentices had their own. I was tasked to do some menial job (IIRC draining air line water separators) and went to the tool cage to grab the appropriate wrench, and saw the absolute trash in what the guys called the "welfare cage", I understood.

I didn't make a ton of money, but I told the boss I needed a draw on my check. When he asked what for, I asked him if he ever tried using the crud in the toolcage... he smiled, and handed me $150 and a list of what "I'd probably need"... Went directly to Sears (Craftsman wasn't crapsman yet back then, and I'd missed the tool trucks by 2 days), and was grinning like a cat-eating canary with my shiny new chrome...

I found out later that had I not done that they wouldn't have given me a week.. Showed I was "dedicated" or something like that. Plus, if the mechanics needed some tool to reef on, throw a 4' pipe behind, or some other nasty and abusive trick to "get 'er done" they didn't fubar their own gear - they'd use the welfare tools.

Learned something else... someone who has their own gear on the line will take much better care of it than if it's a freebie supplied by the shop, and their repairs and times will reflect that. And to this day, 2 careers later, I still buy my own gear... because it's usually the difference between having something low bid and Tiawanic and something that does the job right the first - and 21st - time..

 

[66354dream]

Just out of curiosity, those of you who did change career from working in the automotive field (specifically light duty vehicle work), what exactly did you move on to and how difficult of a transition was it (as in difficult, I mean how hard was it to convince someone/someplace to hire you with only experience working on cars, and how hard was it for you to learn the new line of work?)

My transition from wrenching and having the freedom to move around was terrible!!!. My job now is customer/tech support for an engine parts warehouse, I basically sit at my desk in front of a computer ( thankfully not a cubicle) and help customers. I miss wrenching at times but I get my hands dirty with cars working on my own projects,,,,,, and the tool buying hasn't stopped

 

[rodsnratfinks]

Just out of curiosity, those of you who did change career from working in the automotive field (specifically light duty vehicle work), what exactly did you move on to and how difficult of a transition was it (as in difficult, I mean how hard was it to convince someone/someplace to hire you with only experience working on cars, and how hard was it for you to learn the new line of work?)

I went from wrenching on passenger cars and trucks to being an audiovisual technician (not a big leap for me because I had a lot of hobbyist experience with it). I wouldn't say automotive is my only experience since I also have done electrical and plumbing, but I had never been employed doing it so I hired on as a laborer for an event services company and had to earn their trust and respect. I told them what they hired me that I had some experience in the field. It took some persuasion over time and a position to open up for them to seriously consider it. However, I just kept asking about it and looking for opportunities to fill in, and eventually somebody put in a good word for me.


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[Gmonkee]

Sure, but the necessity is that they have sufficient tools. That's fine. No employer I've had cared whether those tools were snap on or harbor freight as long as you are proficient with them. Some tools should be high quality, others don't have to be. And it doesn't all have to be brand new.

I'm seeing a lot of 21 year old first year techs that have 10-15k worth of tools and box always calling tool trucks the '**** train'. Well, you can't **** the willing!

My boss and I spent the day assembling a Nissan Altima motor using one of those neat Crescent two drawer road box kits.
The car doesn't care they're Asain made. No fasteners have been damaged by horrible sub par tools and it looks as good as factory assembled. All typical Asain current stuff in an excellent presentation. And it is the boss' toolchest.
Just good basic tools in a presentation fitting to a starting mechanic that will allow most anyone to get jobs out. Not too expensive new either.

The shop my bro worked in for years they laughed hard if you came in with cheap tools, import off brand stuff worse. Then they all hit the Matco truck every week and bought prestige brand import tools that sometimes were the same as the off brand stuff. I had Stanley as my flagship line because thats what the local hardware stores had.
My handbox ( I was the parts stripper for the other guys ) maybe had $150 in it and allowed me to strip and bring anything they wanted.
Later my bro owed the Matco guy 30G mostly for his wall-0- toolbox and used possibly 1/3 the content while my same setup kept on going.
It was a luxury for him to have a lift and two bays while I worked out of the back of a rusted out AMC Pacer and my 'area' was a barn with a bunch of wrecked parts car 5 miles away.