Bought a building. Concrete questions...pics!

[4everRS]

I'm looking for opinions/advice on a concrete parking area, and thought this may be the best place to ask.

I bought a building for my business, and it comes with a unique basement. The building was built in 1926 as a service station. The building measures about 60x30 ft. The basement is 60x60. It extends out beyond the front of the building, where the parking area is.

There is some leaking into the basement from above when it rains. My goal is to reduce that leaking, then clean up the basement so it's not so ugly. The concrete on the parking area has been patched in years past. I'm thinking about having areas surface ground, repatched, and sealed with something for outdoor use that will not allow water to penetrate as easily.

 

[4everRS]

If you look close at the third picture, near the front right wheel of my car, there is a large, lighter colored concrete patch. That is where most of the leaking occurs. That and the edges. Water seems to just soak right through that patch. The patch was also done poorly as it is spalling severely. I'm thinking I should grind down, re patch (with something better) and seal it with something good.

Bear in mind, I cannot Jack hammer this out as it's over the basement.

 

[MagKarl]

Seems like a battle you're never going to completely win. Could you cover the front area with a carport?

 

[Strouty]

I wonder if it might be easier to try and divert the water rather than stop it? Another thought would be to build forms in the basement, then drill holes up top so grout could be pumped in. It would be like pouring another ceiling. It would be tricky because you really would not know if you filled all the voids until after removing all the forms.

I would talk to a contractor that does bridge repairs, I bet they see things like this often.

 

[AndyCBR]

That's a tough one. I suspect most of the intrusion is from the joints/edges/cracks around the perimeter and the patch itself. Chasing and sealing those seams will certainly help.

If this were a parking garage (basically, it is but in a basement) they typically use a special coating on the top floor to prevent intrusion through the slab. Essentially you're asking the paving to become a roof.

A damproofing contractor would be able to help but I think like the poster above stated it may be a long fought battle you may never really win 100%. The fact that you go through lots of freeze/thaw cycles in your climate certainly doesn't help the matter.

 

[Strouty]

We also need a thread about the building, there is another thread about a guy wanting to do this at his house under his existing garage. I think it is a great idea and gains tons of usable space for sure.

 

[AndyCBR]

We also need a thread about the building, there is another thread about a guy wanting to do this at his house under his existing garage. I think it is a great idea and gains tons of usable space for sure.

I saw that thread too and I agree a great idea in theory...

In reality, keeping the water out on a long term, permanent basis is very difficult.

 

[Strouty]

That is why I think diverting it might be the best bet. There could be a ceiling that sheds it to the sides for collection or sump of sorts.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I wonder if it might be easier to try and divert the water rather than stop it?

This is really your only reasonable solution. Pitch the surface away from your leak.

Any transition (new to old) is an opportunity for a leak so try to make them on the outside of the basement walls.

They use to make a "flowable" masonry leak sealer. Clean the crack from above. Add water until it is "flowing" through out in the basement. Stop the water and add sealer. It flows into the crack and solidifies.

I don't know if anything like this exists. Check with basement waterproofing companies. They can inject either a polyurethane compound or even Bentonite clay.

 

[4everRS]

That's a tough one. I suspect most of the intrusion is from the joints/edges/cracks around the perimeter and the patch itself. Chasing and sealing those seams will certainly help.

If this were a parking garage (basically, it is but in a basement) they typically use a special coating on the top floor to prevent intrusion through the slab. Essentially you're asking the paving to become a roof.

A damproofing contractor would be able to help but I think like the poster above stated it may be a long fought battle you may never really win 100%. The fact that you go through lots of freeze/thaw cycles in your climate certainly doesn't help the matter.

Exactly. It is just around the perimeter/edges, as well as the patch that the water gets in. Pretty sure it's been like this for decades. I will get a pic of the top perimeter. It has loose gravel in spots, so I'm thinking if I pressure wash, and blast that gravel out, then patch with something flexible to seal it a little better?

I'd love to know what that stuff is that is used for parking ramp surfaces. If anyone knows that, I'm all ears....

I know I won't be able to completely stop the water, but I'd like to reduce the leaking.

 

[Strouty]

You may find you can patch it and it will seal, but I am sure you will have to do it again. Winter and plowing will most likely destroy anything but starting from scratch.

 

[AndyCBR]

Exactly. It is just around the perimeter/edges, as well as the patch that the water gets in. Pretty sure it's been like this for decades. I will get a pic of the top perimeter. It has loose gravel in spots, so I'm thinking if I pressure wash, and blast that gravel out, then patch with something flexible to seal it a little better?

I'd love to know what that stuff is that is used for parking ramp surfaces. If anyone knows that, I'm all ears....

I know I won't be able to completely stop the water, but I'd like to reduce the leaking.

I don't recall the spec/manufacturer but we built a parking garage and it was a self leveling roll on coating that sealed the traffic areas to prevent intrusion at the deck joints. All deck joints were crack chased and sealed with self leveling caulk before the topcoat was applied. This same system was used on some outdoor concrete patios on a multistory commercial job where climate controlled space was below (the patio deck was the roof). Again, a damproofing/waterproofing contractor is your best bet.

However, you are probably also taking on some water between the interface of the deck and walls, something you won't be able to completely eliminate by addressing the top surface. The surface water that comes in from the surrounding paving will still make it to the slab/wall joint (where you have the black stains running down the walls. Perhaps that seal (deck/walls) can be improved with crack chasing and sealing from the inside.

 

[James-W]

I was just thinking about something that may or may not be a good idea, but I think I will mention it and see what you guys think about the idea.

A lot of schools have a track for running on that is made from blacktop and old old rubber tires. The rubber makes the track "softer" for people to run on and I was thinking maybe if the whole parking area was covered with this stuff it would act like a roof and keep water out. I am only guessing on this, but it does seem like it could work. Maybe it's a dumb idea, I don't know for sure, but depending on cost and how well it would work, it may be a viable option.

 

[Strouty]

I was just thinking about something that may or may not be a good idea, but I think I will mention it and see what you guys think about the idea.

A lot of schools have a track for running on that is made from blacktop and old old rubber tires. The rubber makes the track "softer" for people to run on and I was thinking maybe if the whole parking area was covered with this stuff it would act like a roof and keep water out. I am only guessing on this, but it does seem like it could work. Maybe it's a dumb idea, I don't know for sure, but depending on cost and how well it would work, it may be a viable option.

I think that plowing would be the issue with that.

 

[Tyberius]

How cold does the basement get in the winter? Is it heated? Maybe the heat from the inside would melt the snow and eliminate the need for plowing.

Anyway, I would count on there being water in the basement. There always is. Pumps, drain tile, the usual mitigation in the basement

 

[volleyball]

I bet that concrete patch was done with typical 3k concrete. You may have to redo with a higher psi to keep the water out.
Another thing may be to put up a waterproof ceiling below the existing ceiling that is pitched to a drain area. Like you would put under an outside deck to keep the lower level dry.

 

[4everRS]

Yes, the basement is heated. Light snowfalls just melt off. Heavy snowfalls need to be plowed.

Yes, it looks like average concrete. I think I should grind it down and apply some kind of top coat.

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 for big carport. Would be good time to introduce "new look" to front of building . . . ie more industrial look and do away with the pink. Some big steel I-beams that ran up side of building and connected to "carport" would look pretty cool.

Once you have the water and snow going somewhere else, you can REALLY make progress in waterproofing the basement ceiling. Good luck.

 

[4everRS]

I understand the utility of the carport idea, but I won't be doing that. I definitely will be repainting the ugly salmon siding.

 

[volleyball]

A carport would be worse than the salmon paint.

 

[CNGsaves]

If the "carport" was floating . . . ie no legs out by street . . . you could totally transform the look of building.

Big steel I-beams up the side of building and protruding out into space for overhang "carport" of sorts that followed the contour of upper building shape. Water and snow would run off left or right of center.

/ .02 idea

 

[Strouty]

A carport would be worse than the salmon paint.

I think it adds to the ambiance.

 

[4everRS]

I think it adds to the ambiance.

LOL. The sign will be coming down as well.

 

[Strouty]

LOL. The sign will be coming down as well.

What is your intended purpose for the building? Will there be a storefront still or is this more of a service location or is it going to be your headquarters for world **********?

 

[4everRS]

What is your intended purpose for the building? Will there be a storefront still or is this more of a service location or is it going to be your headquarters for world **********?

Haha, world **********.... Actually I'm a financial advisor, so it will be converted to office space. I don't want to disrupt the front of the building. It's also a historical building in town and wouldn't want to upset people with some kind of structural change like the carport idea. Plus I'd don't want that.

Just looking to reduce water getting through. Also, it's not leaking severely. On light rains, no water comes in at all. It's just from the heavy downpours. And then, it's only coming through the patch and a couple areas of the perimeter. More pics to follow.

 

[4everRS]

There are a couple of these in the surface, but they don't seem to be leaking



Here is a pic of the perimeter from the topside. This area leaks a bit. I'm thinking of pressure washing it out and fill with silkaflex? Let me know what you think...

 

[Strouty]

The silkaflex would be worth a shot. I would try to keep it below the surface so the plow can't catch it and try and pull it out.

 

[Strouty]

One question, is it leaking at all in the middle or is all the water coming from the perimeter?

 

[4everRS]

Thanks for asking. There is one spot in the middle of the slab that leaks. It seems to just soak through the concrete. It is what I've been referring to as the "patch". Here's a pic



This is what is under that patch

 

[Strouty]

I would break that out and start over. If the perimeter leaks, I would break away the concrete around that and seal the edges of the basement then pour new concrete. Any small cracks I would use some sort of flexible filler/sealer. That area in the middle was a very pore "patch" job (pun intended).

 

[4everRS]

Do you think I should break out out, or try grinding? I'm worried that I may damage the surface too much and there's a 12 ft drop below.

 

[Strouty]

Do you think I should break out out, or try grinding? I'm worried that I may damage the surface too much and there's a 12 ft drop below.

Honestly the concrete patch looks like it would break out fairly well. It will depend on if they added reinforcement to the existing concrete to connect the patch. You could always add some lower supports, but I think that concrete is really thick. If you grind it, you would have to take down inches before it would be effective in a harsh environment like a parking area in Minnesota.

 

[Strouty]

From the picture inside, there do not appear to be any cracks. I would just take an sds hammer drill (use it in hammer with a chisel) and see if you can get some to come out. If it seems like it is not going to come out or if you make a mess just get some non-shrink grout and patch it back up.

 

[Strouty]

It may be that the patch they added is only a thin layer, if that is the case, you may be able to find the intrusion area by having someone pour water over it while you are in the basement watching. Then you could use the silkaflex to patch that area until you do not have water, then cover it with a new patch. Until you know how deep or shallow that area is, we really can't do more than guess. Remember, we are all certified opinionated internet gurus, so you get what you pay for.

 

[Strouty]

I have only done one concrete building and it was a long time ago. I do build towers and I have installed several foundations, so I have knowledge of concrete. Someone who sees it every day will have much more knowledge than I do, but right now my approach is one of common sense, I just wish that water was a little more consistent. It can go places you would never imagine, but seeing the patch, someone most likely did that to "stop" a leak.

 

[tncatadjuster]

In order to protect your investment, I would have a traffic deck coating installed by a professional. The process is extensive with prep, and primers before the actual coating is applied. Cool looking building, I would do it right one time and be done. Not cheap but worth it in the long run.

Something along the line of this.

http://www.euclidchemical.com/produ...deck-coatings/urethane-based/flexdeck-system/

 

[Strouty]

I forgot about this, but years ago we bought a volumetric cement truck, it was used for bridge repairs. They actually had a latex tank on the truck. It was added to the concrete, I am assuming it was for pliability? The truck was used in PA, so it would have been plowed over during the winter.

 

[PT Doc]

Maybe have a structural engineer to look this over and confirm that all is sound. If something collapsed, you liability would be huge.

 

[tncatadjuster]

Repairs will be complete through the slab with injections of the proper epoxies. This will not be cheap but could be trouble free for twenty years or better. If left alone I give it another.......

 

[mobiledynamics]

Have you called a crete guy.
To do spot repairs on cracks , chase it out, epoxy, etc.

And then possible a new surface topper throughout ?