Strouty
Well-known member
You are welcome, thanks for sharing this project with us.
Putting a basement under my garage (& back yard) ?
- Thread starter someguy11
- Start date
I'm hoping to do it for $100K, with the garage as is, basement finished to bare concrete. We'll see. I'm not interested in debating what it costs. I'll share what I learn as I go along.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Have you been given an estimate of $100k? Or is this simply more blue sky?
Modern Jess
Well-known member
I think this is going to be a cool project. I hope the OP pulls the trigger, as I'd love to follow the progress. Difficult, yes. For sure. But anything is possible with enough planning.
Its my first initial estimate. We'll see if I can make it hold. Like I said, this project is in the PLANNING stages. Its a work in progress. If that's not to your liking, ie its too "blue sky", I suggest you keep your thoughts to yourself.
Have you ever tackled a project of this complexity and magnitude ?
FWIW, I was the GC on the house reno. Tore a $1.7M property built in 2008 apart from head to toe and redid it to our liking. Total project cost was a bit over $100K. Contractors wanted way, way more. Nobody wanted the house because it was ugly inside. Property is now worth over $2.2M. A house half this size, half as nice, down the hill, not on a corner lot, sold for $1.45M this weekend.
I'm no stranger to tough projects.
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I haven't decided if I'm going to lift the garage or dismantle it. I'm going to get input from a framer and a stucco guy.
I also need to run some numbers on excavation and hauling costs with the different pieces of equipment that can be used with different access due to the garage being in the way or not. If we lift the garage in place, we are pretty much limited to using a skid steer or tracked skid steer. If we move the garage, we can use a larger wheel loader and/or excavator.
Its not trivial estimating the cycle times on each machine because truck type (tandem or tandem plus pup) come into play as does where they get loaded, ie on the street, in the alley or in the backyard. Equipment move costs come into play as well.
I'm going to need to run a bunch of scenarios to figure out what is "best" for the situation.
I also need to run some numbers on excavation and hauling costs with the different pieces of equipment that can be used with different access due to the garage being in the way or not. If we lift the garage in place, we are pretty much limited to using a skid steer or tracked skid steer. If we move the garage, we can use a larger wheel loader and/or excavator.
Its not trivial estimating the cycle times on each machine because truck type (tandem or tandem plus pup) come into play as does where they get loaded, ie on the street, in the alley or in the backyard. Equipment move costs come into play as well.
I'm going to need to run a bunch of scenarios to figure out what is "best" for the situation.
Strouty
Well-known member
In your picture where is the garage entrance? Is it on the side street? I think if it is you could use a conveyor system to get the dirt where you want it. They use that a lot when digging out basements. I would think if you started by going through the floor of the garage you could easily brace the garage so it would not collapse, then make more permanent footings for it. By using the garage door area, you could most likely get a skid steer in without any more than maybe modifying the header.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Without training and hands-on experience, acting as GC could boil down to writing checks to the subs, no matter how important you try to make that sound. While "I'm no stranger to tough projects" could mean you watched a coupe youtube videos of knowledgeable workmen doing what they alone know how to do. While basking in the limelight of all your construction project achievements and accolades, you act like someone very young, with little practical experience, dissing the advice of those vastly more experienced than yourself.
The fact that you see this project costing you $100k, when your supposed garage building expert told you the garage alone could cost over half that amount, showcases your lack of experience as well as your unwillingness to listen to those whose advice you claim to seek. Self aggrandizement seems to be your primary agenda. I'd be more impressed if you simply asked intelligent questions of those of us with actual professional excavating and construction experience.
Strouty
Well-known member
EZ, It could also show his tenacity in finding the right subs. No need to insult people, I am interested in the project and you seem to be beating on it.
Modern Jess
Well-known member
Let's let the OP succeed (or fail) on his own merits, okay? There have been lots of times in my life when someone told me I couldn't / shouldn't do something, and I usually did it anyway. Sometimes it was because I knew more than the doubters. Sometimes it was because I knew less. Sometimes I succeeded. Sometimes I failed. In each case, though, I learned something valuable from the experience. Had I listened to the doubters, I would have learned exactly nothing.
readhead
Well-known member
Hey EZ dial it back. What is your deal. This guy can do whatever he wants and spend whatever he can afford. What is it to you?
ez-duzit
Well-known member
The sooner the OP realizes he doesn't have all the answers, the sooner he can either make progress or quit wasting his contractors' time. Amateur moderators in training? 
edit to add my own bonafides:
x-professional diesel shovel operator
experienced backhoe, loader and bulldozer operator
career in engineering design
architectural engineering technology student at Wentworth Institute of Technology
house and boat builder.
What's it to me? Arrogant amateurs get people hurt.
Anything is possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
edit to add my own bonafides:
x-professional diesel shovel operator
experienced backhoe, loader and bulldozer operator
career in engineering design
architectural engineering technology student at Wentworth Institute of Technology
house and boat builder.
What's it to me? Arrogant amateurs get people hurt.
Anything is possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
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bob15
Well-known member
Where is the insult? He gave a very good impression of what is going on with this individual's project.
After-all, the OP asked for advice and ideas and EZ has given very good advice.
Modern Jess
Well-known member
Based on the premise that we (as humans) usually regret the things we didn't do more than the things we did do, I'm going on record as believing that telling the OP not to do it is in fact not very good advice.
volleyball
Well-known member
People, this a a wishing/planning stage. Get over trying to beat down or stand up for the OP. There is far too little facts given for anyone to say this can be done or not.
We have no idea where the property is. That alone could make a project possible in one area fail miserably elsewhere.
Personally and I assume for most, we don't really care if the project happens. We all have an interest and it is a great exercise but unless we are thinking of doing something like this, it won't affect us enough to matter.
We need to keep it logical. That is the most help. Trying to stifle any naysayers is ludicrous, especially for the OP. But just saying it cannot be done is useless. Say why you think so.
Lets keep this fun.
We have no idea where the property is. That alone could make a project possible in one area fail miserably elsewhere.
Personally and I assume for most, we don't really care if the project happens. We all have an interest and it is a great exercise but unless we are thinking of doing something like this, it won't affect us enough to matter.
We need to keep it logical. That is the most help. Trying to stifle any naysayers is ludicrous, especially for the OP. But just saying it cannot be done is useless. Say why you think so.
Lets keep this fun.
Strouty
Well-known member
Strouty
Well-known member
But we live vicariously through posters like this!
volleyball
Well-known member
I am all for the vicarious living of following the muses of a possible dreamer.
I just don't want this to go all one sided, jump, jump, jump by shutting down all the cautious, don't jump, don't jump, don't jump.
I just don't want this to go all one sided, jump, jump, jump by shutting down all the cautious, don't jump, don't jump, don't jump.
Modern Jess
Well-known member
It's not ludicrous. It's basic civility. A skill that is increasingly scarce around here.
Strouty
Well-known member
I think that I have that game on my computer.
Seriously, threads like this are awesome. People will surprise you. I have thought yah right on many occasions then I was amazed at what they did. I know that this is possible and if the OP puts in some effort he could do it for $100k. Even if he never does it, it will make for a lot of inspiration.
bob15
Well-known member
Did you read the first paragraph? That sure seems like an insult to me.
Post # 1, last line: "Thoughts, ideas, advice ?"
He gave the OP advise and his thoughts on this "project".....not an insult.
Strouty
Well-known member
I guess we can agree to disagree.
OP do not get discouraged, you have to remember that there are some great people on here, even the ones that seem against you can have some great thoughts. Just put on the "thick skin" and let them roll with it.
OP do not get discouraged, you have to remember that there are some great people on here, even the ones that seem against you can have some great thoughts. Just put on the "thick skin" and let them roll with it.
bczygan
Well-known member
I like these wide ranging discussions on a project.
Yes, even the negative point blank posts with no detailed discussion add "flavor"!
In this one the OP hasn't been as involved and responsive as I would like. He's kept some things close to his vest and hasn't responded to all the posters with as much discussion as I would enjoy. He's taking from our posts, just what he wants.
It's a fact that you can do just about anything, within the constraints of zoning and budget.
The OP is doing a good job of comparing available options by taking them and pricing them out. Blank statements that "It'll cost 100K, or 200K, have no value. You must do pricing and bidding, as he is doing. Hopefully he will share the results of his valuations.
I'm not sure I agree with his valuation of the renovated house. I don't know if it overbuilt the neighborhood. For sure, this proposed project will overfill the lot. I don't like lots that are maxed out with structures, even though that is the trend, especially on small city and subdivision lots.
Bill
Yes, even the negative point blank posts with no detailed discussion add "flavor"!
In this one the OP hasn't been as involved and responsive as I would like. He's kept some things close to his vest and hasn't responded to all the posters with as much discussion as I would enjoy. He's taking from our posts, just what he wants.
It's a fact that you can do just about anything, within the constraints of zoning and budget.
The OP is doing a good job of comparing available options by taking them and pricing them out. Blank statements that "It'll cost 100K, or 200K, have no value. You must do pricing and bidding, as he is doing. Hopefully he will share the results of his valuations.
I'm not sure I agree with his valuation of the renovated house. I don't know if it overbuilt the neighborhood. For sure, this proposed project will overfill the lot. I don't like lots that are maxed out with structures, even though that is the trend, especially on small city and subdivision lots.
Bill
Strouty
Well-known member
Flavor! 
Fishplate
Well-known member
The way I see it, I'm not the one taking the risk, but I have everything to gain by reading about his decision-making and his progress. I don't seem to be able to learn anything from the guys who just say it can't be done, when none of us, as you point out, are in complete possession of the facts.
Of course it can be done. We put a man on the moon, we moved a 115 foot tall light house a mile up the beach. Compared to that, this job is a piece of cake.
Is it worth it? Dunno. Seems to be worth it to the OP, if it ends up within his budget. There's not another individual on this forum who can give him the answer to that, or even give him advice about it.
volleyball
Well-known member
Yeah our government could and did put men on the moon. But they have what they consider an unlimited budget and gets to change a lot of rules. Single citizens don't have that luxury.
This project is doable on paper, no doubt. Doable in real life, we cannot tell. Not enough info.
What it is worth to the OP is the deciding factor. The value of improved use can go a long way especially in the face of zero gain and as likely value lessened of the property.
This project is doable on paper, no doubt. Doable in real life, we cannot tell. Not enough info.
What it is worth to the OP is the deciding factor. The value of improved use can go a long way especially in the face of zero gain and as likely value lessened of the property.
Fishplate
Well-known member
And right there, you've made an assumption, without any basis in relevant facts. I think that's what we are trying to avoid in this - and many other - similar threads on GJ.
The only sub contractor I used on my reno was the painters and I wouldn't do that again. I, myself, did or oversaw wiring, plumbing, framing, gyproc and design. I hire employees and advisors to work along side me when there is too much to do or I need a second opinion. I'm terrible at taping gyproc and painting. Actually, I'd be decent at it if I had the time, but I certainly didn't when we were doing the reno, so I hired help for those tasks.
Not that that makes any difference to this project. Even if our house was $500K, if you need the space, this project makes sense. I've been renting space and storage for the last 12 years. I would have paid for this project outright in that time. And to say its not going to add a lot of value to the property would be foolish. Anyone that needs storage or work space is going to love a property with a bunker.
I think and I've been told by several people that this project especially adds value to an inner city property. People dislike inner city properties because they don't have room for an extra garage or storage. This overcomes that limitation. My neighbor down the street has a hobby car and built an oversized garage just to accommodate working on it. It totally ruined his back yard, as far as I am concerned.
Not sure I'm getting out of this thread what I thought I would. Seems to be a lot of posturing and blanket criticism instead of contribution.
There are several 2 and 3 million dollar houses on my street. Our house isn't out of sync with the rest of the properties. Middling, actually.
Not that that makes any difference to this project. Even if our house was $500K, if you need the space, this project makes sense. I've been renting space and storage for the last 12 years. I would have paid for this project outright in that time. And to say its not going to add a lot of value to the property would be foolish. Anyone that needs storage or work space is going to love a property with a bunker.
I think and I've been told by several people that this project especially adds value to an inner city property. People dislike inner city properties because they don't have room for an extra garage or storage. This overcomes that limitation. My neighbor down the street has a hobby car and built an oversized garage just to accommodate working on it. It totally ruined his back yard, as far as I am concerned.
That is the beauty of doing a bunker. There is no change to the above ground appearance of the property when all is said and done.
Not sure I'm getting out of this thread what I thought I would. Seems to be a lot of posturing and blanket criticism instead of contribution.
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toplessHO
Well-known member
Having already done something very similar I can weigh in as a yea. PM me if you have any specific questions you dont want to be nitpicked on
Just as a point of reference...
The "Front Yard" of the city of Chicago is Grant Park.
Multi block of Lake Michigan lake front.
There is a multi level (3 maybe) parking garage under it.
All the landscaping (band shell, grass, bushs, trees. etc) are on the concrete roof of a basement.
The "Front Yard" of the city of Chicago is Grant Park.
Multi block of Lake Michigan lake front.
There is a multi level (3 maybe) parking garage under it.
All the landscaping (band shell, grass, bushs, trees. etc) are on the concrete roof of a basement.
9C1
Well-known member
And in my memory Grant Park Garage has been rebuilt at least twice, although in fairness at least one of those times was to increase its size. Have you ever parked there? Leakage was a continual problem. The last "rebuilding" included foam blocks to build up the "berms" to reduce the weight of the overburden on the roof.
Terry
Strouty
Well-known member
Dreamcrushers, every one of you.
Don't lose hope, we are not all against you. I wish I was closer, well at least I think I wish, I would gladly help out.
Don't lose hope, we are not all against you. I wish I was closer, well at least I think I wish, I would gladly help out.
SALIV8
Well-known member
this project has had collapse issues, and leakage issues. also fresh air to keep code with the exhaust is a task for this structure...
Strouty
Well-known member
Different animal on a different scale.
Tyberius
Well-known member
Grant Park is one of a couple of places that I park when I go downtown, never remember any leaks.
Another thing to think about is the green roofs that are installed:
Green grass, farm vegetables, small trees all on the roof of a building.
Another thing to think about is the green roofs that are installed:
Green grass, farm vegetables, small trees all on the roof of a building.
SALIV8
Well-known member
i work dowtown and parked in grant park for about a year straight. they were chasing leaks at that time. i cant imagine a concrete structure remaining leak free. we chase leaks in newer high rises that are all concrete often. cracks will most likely form sooner or later.. just hope the waterproofing system is up to task, especially if its buried.
bczygan
Well-known member
Any thread will have all kinds of responses. Few of them a direct answer to the question the OP asks. That's the beauty of the internet. You get answers to questions you didn't ask. And this gives you options and ideas you never thought of. But you'll also get opinions and negativity and people commenting about what they did that has no bearing on your project.
Fun, Eh?
Bill
Strouty
Well-known member
Thank you Dr Bill………… That's funny, it is kind of like Dr Phil?
Not sure if its worth my time posting here or not. I'll give it another go to share some of the stuff I'm learning for those that might be tempted to do a project like this.
Had a big on site meeting with my structural engineer. Engineering wise the project is pretty straight forward. He hasn't run exact numbers of everything, specifically how much beaming is going to be required, but other than that, its pretty simple.
We discussed roof leakage. He explained to me that concrete hates 2 things... temperature stress and shock loads. By temperature stress, he means hot/cold cycles and local variances. By shock loads he means loads that move fast or change fast.
As far as the back yard segment of the roof, its going to be very lightly loaded, its not going to have any major shock loads and if we put grass on top of the roof, its going to be very stable temperature wise. If you do get a leak, lift up the grass, patch it and carry on.
As far as the garage segment of the roof, it will have higher load concentrations, but they won't be like cars driving on a parking garage and the garage building itself is going to really limit the temperature changes, even if its unheated.
This, together with some of the excellent sealing products available and he isn't very worried about the roof leaking.
Its looking like lifting the garage in place is probably the least expensive and complicated option if I can get beams for the right price. One of the local metal recyclers gets sound steel beams in all the time. I can buy them for scrap price and sell them back to them when I'm done. I'm still researching this area.
I'm starting to compile rough, preliminary cost estimates.
Concrete.
Its going to take about 100 yards of concrete to do the whole structure.
The footings will be 18" wide x 10" deep. There is 168 lineal feet of wall. About 8 yards.
The walls are 9' high. 168 lineal feet. About 38 yards.
The basement floor will be 4" thick. 1500 ft^2. About 18 yards.
The roof will be about 8" thick. 1500 ft^2. About 37 yards.
100 yards @ $250/yard = $25,000 plus concrete pumper costs.
ICF Blocks
I think ICF blocks are going to run about $3.50 per ft^2. Plus bracing. Figure on $4.
168 x 9 x $4 = $6,000 Sounds like a lot, but there are big savings not having to rent forms, on the labor and you get an R26 wall when you are done. Cribbers want about $30 per lineal foot for 9 foot forms. $168 x $30 = $5,000 and we have no insulation. We have to do the work though.
Rebar, beams and posts.
Rough estimate is $8,000. Still waiting to see how much rebar is needed in the roof and that depends on what sort of spans we end up with and how many beams we use. May use used I beams for beams. My structural engineer is fine with that, subject to his inspections.
Excavation
I'll be buying a skid steer and selling it when I'm done this project. I'm hoping to get something decent for $20K and reselling it without a loss. Excavation cost will thus be fuel and wear and tear on the machine. I'm thinking $2,000 should cover it. I'm estimating about 80 working machine hours to move 600 yards of material. $25 per machine hour for fuel and expenses. I'll run it and I'm not paying myself anything !
Dirt hauling
I'm hoping to be able to use a tandem dump trucks pulling a pup to haul the dirt away. Hauling time will be about 50 minutes. Loading time will be about 30 minutes. 10 yards in the truck and 10 yards in the pup, +/-. 30 loads. About 50 hours @ $100 per hour = $5,000.
Structural Engineering
I was quoted $2500 for everything including permit applications. My SE is fine with me being the GC.
Permits
About $1500. Depends if they will give me an exemption on getting a developer permit. My designer says I don't need it because nothing changes once the project is done. City says I need it because its a 2 story structure. My engineer says that is irrelevant. We'll see.
Lifting Cost
I think we are going to lift the garage ourselves. Lifting cost will be the rental of jacks, beam cost, blocking cost, etc. $2500.
Cribbing for the roof pour.
Unknown.
Plumbing, heating and electrical.
Will be finished out later. Not included in the structure cost. For now its just a concrete building. I'll rough in some plumbing, string up some lights and maybe install a cheap natgas furnace. $2000.
Landscaping
Not included. We were going to re landscape the back yard for drainage issues anyway. Won't be expensive as I'll have the skid steer and most of it will be put back into grass. There will be some concrete or patio block, but we wanted to do that anyway.
Finishing the Garage Interior
Not included, needed to be done anyway.
Labor
Myself + 1 helper for 3 months at $20/hour. $10,000
Thus
Concrete $25,000
Rebar, beams and posts $8,000
Excavation $2,000
Hauling $5,000
ICF Blocks $6,000
Lifting $2,500
Plumbing, electrical $2,000
Labor $10,000
Structural Engineering $2,500
Permits $1,500
Total thus far $64,000
I know this isn't a complete cost estimate. But its a start. And I'm still a ways from $100K.
I didn't include the "we were going to do it anyway" costs because I want to get a feel of what the bunker alone is going to cost. I'm probably going to spend $10K finishing out the garage interior with insulation, wiring, gyproc, taping, paint, shelving and a better man door. But that has nothing to do with what it costs to build the bunker.
Missing from my list.
- concrete pumping
- floor concrete finisher
- geo technical survey
- contingency fund
- weeping tile
- foundation water proofing
- spray foaming the ceiling
- beer
- tools, such as a good transit, concrete ********, jackhammer, tool rental
- prior payment of my designer $400
- landscape designer
- house basement mods for the basement door
- site survey pin locations
- bribing my neighbors to stay on their good side
- all the costs that inevitably turn up during a job
- forklift mast "lift"
- 2 windows
- door to the house basement
I can't help but notice that I'm no where near $200 or $300,000.
Had a big on site meeting with my structural engineer. Engineering wise the project is pretty straight forward. He hasn't run exact numbers of everything, specifically how much beaming is going to be required, but other than that, its pretty simple.
We discussed roof leakage. He explained to me that concrete hates 2 things... temperature stress and shock loads. By temperature stress, he means hot/cold cycles and local variances. By shock loads he means loads that move fast or change fast.
As far as the back yard segment of the roof, its going to be very lightly loaded, its not going to have any major shock loads and if we put grass on top of the roof, its going to be very stable temperature wise. If you do get a leak, lift up the grass, patch it and carry on.
As far as the garage segment of the roof, it will have higher load concentrations, but they won't be like cars driving on a parking garage and the garage building itself is going to really limit the temperature changes, even if its unheated.
This, together with some of the excellent sealing products available and he isn't very worried about the roof leaking.
Its looking like lifting the garage in place is probably the least expensive and complicated option if I can get beams for the right price. One of the local metal recyclers gets sound steel beams in all the time. I can buy them for scrap price and sell them back to them when I'm done. I'm still researching this area.
I'm starting to compile rough, preliminary cost estimates.
Concrete.
Its going to take about 100 yards of concrete to do the whole structure.
The footings will be 18" wide x 10" deep. There is 168 lineal feet of wall. About 8 yards.
The walls are 9' high. 168 lineal feet. About 38 yards.
The basement floor will be 4" thick. 1500 ft^2. About 18 yards.
The roof will be about 8" thick. 1500 ft^2. About 37 yards.
100 yards @ $250/yard = $25,000 plus concrete pumper costs.
ICF Blocks
I think ICF blocks are going to run about $3.50 per ft^2. Plus bracing. Figure on $4.
168 x 9 x $4 = $6,000 Sounds like a lot, but there are big savings not having to rent forms, on the labor and you get an R26 wall when you are done. Cribbers want about $30 per lineal foot for 9 foot forms. $168 x $30 = $5,000 and we have no insulation. We have to do the work though.
Rebar, beams and posts.
Rough estimate is $8,000. Still waiting to see how much rebar is needed in the roof and that depends on what sort of spans we end up with and how many beams we use. May use used I beams for beams. My structural engineer is fine with that, subject to his inspections.
Excavation
I'll be buying a skid steer and selling it when I'm done this project. I'm hoping to get something decent for $20K and reselling it without a loss. Excavation cost will thus be fuel and wear and tear on the machine. I'm thinking $2,000 should cover it. I'm estimating about 80 working machine hours to move 600 yards of material. $25 per machine hour for fuel and expenses. I'll run it and I'm not paying myself anything !
Dirt hauling
I'm hoping to be able to use a tandem dump trucks pulling a pup to haul the dirt away. Hauling time will be about 50 minutes. Loading time will be about 30 minutes. 10 yards in the truck and 10 yards in the pup, +/-. 30 loads. About 50 hours @ $100 per hour = $5,000.
Structural Engineering
I was quoted $2500 for everything including permit applications. My SE is fine with me being the GC.
Permits
About $1500. Depends if they will give me an exemption on getting a developer permit. My designer says I don't need it because nothing changes once the project is done. City says I need it because its a 2 story structure. My engineer says that is irrelevant. We'll see.
Lifting Cost
I think we are going to lift the garage ourselves. Lifting cost will be the rental of jacks, beam cost, blocking cost, etc. $2500.
Cribbing for the roof pour.
Unknown.
Plumbing, heating and electrical.
Will be finished out later. Not included in the structure cost. For now its just a concrete building. I'll rough in some plumbing, string up some lights and maybe install a cheap natgas furnace. $2000.
Landscaping
Not included. We were going to re landscape the back yard for drainage issues anyway. Won't be expensive as I'll have the skid steer and most of it will be put back into grass. There will be some concrete or patio block, but we wanted to do that anyway.
Finishing the Garage Interior
Not included, needed to be done anyway.
Labor
Myself + 1 helper for 3 months at $20/hour. $10,000
Thus
Concrete $25,000
Rebar, beams and posts $8,000
Excavation $2,000
Hauling $5,000
ICF Blocks $6,000
Lifting $2,500
Plumbing, electrical $2,000
Labor $10,000
Structural Engineering $2,500
Permits $1,500
Total thus far $64,000
I know this isn't a complete cost estimate. But its a start. And I'm still a ways from $100K.
I didn't include the "we were going to do it anyway" costs because I want to get a feel of what the bunker alone is going to cost. I'm probably going to spend $10K finishing out the garage interior with insulation, wiring, gyproc, taping, paint, shelving and a better man door. But that has nothing to do with what it costs to build the bunker.
Missing from my list.
- concrete pumping
- floor concrete finisher
- geo technical survey
- contingency fund
- weeping tile
- foundation water proofing
- spray foaming the ceiling
- beer
- tools, such as a good transit, concrete ********, jackhammer, tool rental
- prior payment of my designer $400
- landscape designer
- house basement mods for the basement door
- site survey pin locations
- bribing my neighbors to stay on their good side
- all the costs that inevitably turn up during a job
- forklift mast "lift"
- 2 windows
- door to the house basement
I can't help but notice that I'm no where near $200 or $300,000.
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Looks like the final area is going to be 1500 ft^2. If I can pull this project off for $100K, that works out to $66/ft2 for an insulated structure. Not bad. For comparison, my above ground garage would cost about $35K to build and its about 700 ft^2, for a cost of $50/ft^2. Its not insulated.
My garage area is going to go from 22 x 31 (682 ft^2) now to 22x34 above ground plus 1500 ft^2 below = 2248 ft^2 total. Some of that is going to be lost to the lift/ stairway, but its still a huge, huge improvement. We are striving to keep 9 foot ceilings most places with 8' of clearance under any beams we need to use. I'm hoping we can have the entire area under the garage (22x34) beam free as well as a second area 19 x 40, with only 1 beam between the two. That will require a 22 foot span in the garage floor. My structural engineer is working on it.
FYI, I grew up on a farm pouring concrete every summer. Grain bin floors, hog barn pits, hopper bottom foundations, machine shed foundations, etc.
My garage area is going to go from 22 x 31 (682 ft^2) now to 22x34 above ground plus 1500 ft^2 below = 2248 ft^2 total. Some of that is going to be lost to the lift/ stairway, but its still a huge, huge improvement. We are striving to keep 9 foot ceilings most places with 8' of clearance under any beams we need to use. I'm hoping we can have the entire area under the garage (22x34) beam free as well as a second area 19 x 40, with only 1 beam between the two. That will require a 22 foot span in the garage floor. My structural engineer is working on it.
FYI, I grew up on a farm pouring concrete every summer. Grain bin floors, hog barn pits, hopper bottom foundations, machine shed foundations, etc.
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