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Quincy 5HP Magnetic Starter?

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jeb42

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I hooked mine up directly to the pressure switch about a month ago and have had no problems. The instructions did not call for a starter, but I did use 8 guage wire to connect it up. An electrician friend said that would be good because of the start-up load. And I already had it from an old electric heater.
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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I wired my 5HP Quincy to a mag switch to prevent running that much current thru a pressure switch. Not too hard to do and it allows the pressure switch to act as a trigger only.
 
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pimp-boy

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Thanks jeb42 for the input!

Hi GeorgeHybrid, do you have any recommendations for a mag switch? Sorry, new to this.

Thanks!
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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I used a Siemens but you need to buy it with the correct heaters for your motor (5 HP). The place you buy your mag starter from can help. If you get a Siemens, this might help:

MagDone_4.jpg


PressureSwitch.jpg


Good luck....
 

darkk

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I used a Siemens but you need to buy it with the correct heaters for your motor (5 HP). The place you buy your mag starter from can help. If you get a Siemens, this might help:Good luck....

Hmmm....mine has two heaters, I really think three, but positive at least two.
 

darkk

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That is for a 3 phase starter. On a 240 volt single phase setup, if one leg is protected, the circuit is broken when overheated.

I did pop one a few years back. The compressor would just make this very loud hum, pop the breaker and not start until I replaced the heater....
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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If you have a 3 phase mag starter, make sure you have the correct amperage heaters installed. 3 phase power will use smaller wires and heaters than single phase for the same HP.
 
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pimp-boy

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If you have a 3 phase mag starter, make sure you have the correct amperage heaters installed. 3 phase power will use smaller wires and heaters than single phase for the same HP.

Thanks GeorgeHybrid. I'm looking to purchase the Square D Magnetic Motor starter control (5HP 1ph 230V 30A) with the B-40 (rated at 21.8 - 24.2 AMPS) thermal overload/heater. The pictures sure do help alot. I'll be purchasing it on Monday and hope it will be straight forward to install. My setup is just a single phase 220v.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Square-...-230V-30A-8911DPSG32V09-/190676794166#vi-desc

Do you mind posting a picture of your wiring for the pressure switch? From what your setup is, yours is a 3 phase setup. Correct?

Thanks again...
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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Nope, mine is single phase. The pressure switch will probably have two sets of contacts but you only need to use one set with a mag starter. It doesn't make much difference how you wire that switch as it is just an on/off contact switch. It will just allow the relay to energize on the mag starter. Remember that a 220 circuit has to use both hot legs. If one is pulled from the circuit, it will not work.
 

savior

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You can connect it to the pressure switch, no problem doing that, i have done it myself.
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stingry

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Hi, this may be a general question.

I got got my Quincy Model# 2V41C60VC compressor.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200350475_200350475

Wasn't sure if you guys would recommend having a magnetic starter or just have it directly connected to the pressure switch only. Is there any advantages or disadvantages?

If anyone has done it, do you have any pictures you can show?

Thanks!

I just installed the exact same compressor in my shop. I wired it per the instructions (no magnetic starter) and it works fine. Be sure to follow the instructions since the pressure switch only switches ONE Leg of the 220 line voltage. They use jumpers to allow both contacts of the pressure switch to make or break the circuit.

Cheers
Steve
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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5 HP is on the line as to whether or not to use a mag starter on it. Using one is easier on the pressure switch as you are not running full current thru the switch contacts and are using the mag starter as the relay. Wiring without is fine as long as the motor has some overload protection (reset switch) but if your motor does not have a reset, you should be using a mag starter with the heaters installed for that protection.

A compressor over 5 HP should always use a mag starter and those under 5 HP should be OK without one as most of those will have a thermal reset on the motor.
 
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pimp-boy

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5 HP is on the line as to whether or not to use a mag starter on it. Using one is easier on the pressure switch as you are not running full current thru the switch contacts and are using the mag starter as the relay. Wiring without is fine as long as the motor has some overload protection (reset switch) but if your motor does not have a reset, you should be using a mag starter with the heaters installed for that protection.

A compressor over 5 HP should always use a mag starter and those under 5 HP should be OK without one as most of those will have a thermal reset on the motor.

If you have a 3 phase mag starter, make sure you have the correct amperage heaters installed. 3 phase power will use smaller wires and heaters than single phase for the same HP.

Hi GeorgiaHybrid, thanks for your diagrams. I finally received my SquareDBox magnetic starter and wanted to get some of your input. I labeled the diagram of how I think it should be hooked up (based on your drawing), but wanted some of your input. Hopefully it should be straight forward. I attached two pictures of the setup.

Just a couple of questions...

1. From the starter, I have labeled "To Pressure Switch (A)". Where does this connect to the pressure switch? I labeled the pressure switch drawing.

2. From the starter, I have labeled "From Pressure Switch (B)". Can you let me know where this connects to on the pressure switch?

3. Can you also confirm the location of the heater installation on my drawing? I labeled that too.

4. For the L1 out from starter to L1 IN in the pressure switch, is it a direct connect and does not tie into Z? Currently the motor wire is directly connected to Z which it tied to a jumper wire to X.

Thanks for your help.
 

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GeorgiaHybrid

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Hi GeorgiaHybrid, thanks for your diagrams. I finally received my SquareDBox magnetic starter and wanted to get some of your input. I labeled the diagram of how I think it should be hooked up (based on your drawing), but wanted some of your input. Hopefully it should be straight forward. I attached two pictures of the setup.

Just a couple of questions...

1. From the starter, I have labeled "To Pressure Switch (A)". Where does this connect to the pressure switch? I labeled the pressure switch drawing.

You can use contact W and X or contact Y and Z You did have both legs wired to the pressure switch. With a mag starter, you only need one switch to energize the coil.

2. From the starter, I have labeled "From Pressure Switch (B)". Can you let me know where this connects to on the pressure switch?

See above

3. Can you also confirm the location of the heater installation on my drawing? I labeled that too.

It should go where you have it labeled

4. For the L1 out from starter to L1 IN in the pressure switch, is it a direct connect and does not tie into Z? Currently the motor wire is directly connected to Z which it tied to a jumper wire to X.

You wire directly from the mag starter L1 out and L2 out to the motor L1 and L2. All the pressure switch does is energize a relay to allow current to go to the motor. Once that coil is energized, your current will flow from the mag starter to the motor without any other devices inline.

Thanks for your help.

You should also have a ground in that setup that grounds the system in case something goes wrong.
 
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pimp-boy

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Hi GeorgiaHybrid, thanks again for all of your help. I finally got everything wired up. I got power straight to the magnetic starter (L1 IN and L2 IN), wires from the pressure switch to the starter (Y & Z going to A & B), and the power out of the starter directly connected to the quincy motor (L1 OUT & L2 OUT directly connected to L2 IN from starter & L1 IN from starter). As a note, the original black wire from the motor was connected to Z. I removed it and connected directly to the L1 OUT of the starter. And the hanging red tape wire was connected directly to the L1 OUT of the starter.

I also added in a ground block as you suggested. The ground wires from the wall outlet to the ground block and the pressure switch ground to the starter ground.

When i flip the pressure switch to on, I see the magnetic switch go in to power the rest of the L1 & L2 out (to the motor), but the compressor motor doesn't turn on. I took a voltmeter and verified that the L1/L2 OUT of the starter is 240volts. When I turn off the pressure switch, there is no power (as expected). I tried pushing the reset button on the Quincy motor, but I don't believe it tripped as it doesn't go in anymore when pushed.

Do you have any other suggestions? Let me know if you want pictures of my setup.
 
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GeorgiaHybrid

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If line L1 and L2 from the mag starter to the motor doesn't have 240 volts when the pressure switch is turned off and does have 240 volts when turned on, the problem is with the wiring at the motor. Make sure you have L1 and L2 wired correctly at the motor connectoin.
 

Bob C

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Once you installed the heater, did you push the big red reset on the mag? Also, are you measuring each leg to ground?
 
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pimp-boy

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Yea.. i had a bad contact on the pressure switch. It's working great! This website is the best! Doesn't take too long...

Good luck!
 

voodoowagon

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Wondering if you guys are happy with your 60 gallon or if you wish you had the 80 gallon? i want to do minimal sand blasting and mostly just have a good compressor my air tools wont run out
 

PT Doc

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Wondering if you guys are happy with your 60 gallon or if you wish you had the 80 gallon? i want to do minimal sand blasting and mostly just have a good compressor my air tools wont run out

Go with the 80 if you might need the capacity. They are rated for continuous duty but according to Quincy that means 6 cycles per hour. So with the extended use of blasting you might run the 60 gal too hard. The 5hp 80 gal 2stage is 18cfm. I believe the 7.5hp is 23cfm.

Project what you will need an err on the side of bumping up one level to cover yourself in the future.
 

Chadwilliam1

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I need help picking out a magnetic starter for my single phase 240 5hp 18 cfm 60 gallon single stage IR compressor please. Also what are you guys referring to as the heater?
 

matt_i

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Magnetic Starter is sort of a dumbed down term for "motor starter" or "contactor" which is just a relay....albeit a heavy duty one.

Usually you find them in industrial 3 phase power settings where they can also be wired to create reverse rotation of the motor very simply.

In a residential, single phase setting, it has heavier duty contacts than the pressure switch, so instead of using the pressure switch's contacts to stop and start the main motor voltage and current, you get an improved device with much longer life. The pressure switch still is used but its now a low-current "signal"

Overload heaters are exactly that, precisely calibrated electrical heaters, which generate heat in proportion to the current running thru them. The overload heater(s) are placed near a bimetallic strip which has a low-current signaling contact. If enough current is sent thru the heater, it heats the bimetal strip to the point where the contact goes open-circuit. This signal is wired in series with the pressure switch and ultimately keeps the motor starter from closing and attempting to start the motor.

Two reasons for using an overload heater apparatus, 1) in 3 phase electrical wiring, loss of 1 of the 3 phases means the motor is electrically locked and cannot start, however it will draw current on the remaining phase until the windings cook and scrap the motor. If a motor runs unattended as in say on a rooftop blower, it needs a sort of automatic minding device to prevent replacing motors all of the time. 2) second reason is an actual mechanical overload where the motor has all the phases present, but it sits with a locked rotor and cannot turn. The current draw has to be such that fuses don't blow or breakers don't trip but the motor is sitting there humming but not running. Eventually this will also cook the motor as in 1) above.

A couple of practical points. On a single phase setup, an overload heater is sort of a rare bird. Also, if you intend to be present every time the motor runs, you can go shut it off if you hear it humming and grunting. Its easier if the motor runs a machine you are actually standing right in front of, say a lathe or mill. An air compressor could be in a quiet cabinet.

To Size a magnetic starter there are two basic schools of thought, both involve the FLA = full load amperage of the motor in question. Usually its imprinted on the nameplate. Or you can get a rough calculation using your jedi math, Each HP = 745 watts, Watts are volts * amps, so you can resolve the amperage to something like 5hp x 745W / 240vac to get around 15 amps max draw.

The two schools are the NEMA school and the IEC school. To make a long story short, a NEMA -sized starter is hugely overdesigned for industry, literally you might replace it once in a generation in severe duty. IEC is a much smaller device that works perfectly, has a double digit industrial lifespan, but obviously its not built for hell or high water or world wars. Still, you'd likely melt the bearings out of your geared electric power meter before you can wear out a properly sized IEC starter hooked to a 5hp air compressor.

In my experience, used industrial devices work very well in a home shop, its really hard to wear them out. There are brand new "definite purpose contactors" which spring out of the residential HVAC arena that are fairly cheap and work well enough. I consider them lower grade than the industrial devices in terms of lifespan but will handle switching the rated current just fine.

Hope that helped and wasn't too confusing.
 
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Trey T

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I wouldn't have installed a dedicated contactor for that setup due to the fact that you have a 3600rpm motor instead of the 1800rpm one. the 3600rpm motor is designed much different than the 1800. If that pressure switch is rated for that setup, I would've left it alone and get it running.
 
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wantacoe

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Can't go wrong with a Quincy. What does the manufacturer recommend? I put a Eaton compressor pump on my air compressor a few years ago. It is a good sized pump (22.5 cfm @ 90 psi) It would trip the breaker when it kicked in, I then put a magnetic starter on it and have had no problem since.
 

redmondjp

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On your motor label, it says "THERMALLY PROTECTED MANUAL" - if I am interpreting this correctly, it means that the motor has its own built-in thermal overload protection (which is what a correctly-sized heater provides in a motor starter). Does the motor have a red button on the end (overload reset)?

If your motor has the red button on it, you don't need a motor starter. You can use a 5HP-rated contactor with a 240VAC coil (that is controlled by the compressor pressure switch). That's what a motor starter is - a contactor plus the heater for overload protection. If your motor has built-in overload protection, there is no need to spend the money on a motor starter. You can get a 5HP 240VAC coil contactor for less than $50, such as this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CONR93W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Don't worry if it has three poles - you are only going to use two of them. Install the contactor inside an electrical junction box that you can get at any electrical supply house.
 

Chadwilliam1

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Yes it has a red reset button.

Is there a way I can wire this compressor with a contactor so I can turn it off and on from my basement. The compressor is in my garage I would like to be able to turn it off and on from my basement while using air tools.


Does it matter which poles i use off that contactor?

Thank you for your help.
 

redmondjp

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Yes it has a red reset button.

Is there a way I can wire this compressor with a contactor so I can turn it off and on from my basement. The compressor is in my garage I would like to be able to turn it off and on from my basement while using air tools.


Does it matter which poles i use off that contactor?

Thank you for your help.

Yes, you can absolutely use a remote switch for the contactor, with the proviso that you understand how your compressor unloader works. If the unloader is built into your pressure switch, and you remotely turn off the compressor while it is in operation, the unloader will not function.

One way to address this is, in addition to your remote switch, you also have a "run called for" light at the switch. This can be done in a couple of ways, but one simple way is to use a 240V pilot light wired across the pressure switch contacts. With your remote switch in the 'on' position, this light will be off when the compressor is running. So you would want to only turn off your remote switch when the light is on (compressor run not called for, meaning the upper pressure has been reached and the unloader valve has been activated).

Now if you have a centrifugal or oil-pressure-activated compressor pump head unloader (which the higher-end compressors use), then ignore the above and just use a remote switch that is in series with the pressure switch.

And no, it does not matter which of the poles you use on the contactor - they are all the same.
 

matt_i

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A remote switch opens another can of worms. Electrically its just another maintained contact in series with the pressure switch.

However I always recommend against running 240vac thru an operator station (meaning on the underside of a button or switch that people touch). It can lead to a very bad day if the right set of circumstances align.

So to do it more safely, you'd choose a lower control voltage, like 24vac, 24vdc, 120vac but those all require using a control transformer or power supply, and your knowledge of electrical controls and "ladder logic" needs to be a little higher to make it work right.
 

redmondjp

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A remote switch opens another can of worms. Electrically its just another maintained contact in series with the pressure switch.

However I always recommend against running 240vac thru an operator station (meaning on the underside of a button or switch that people touch). It can lead to a very bad day if the right set of circumstances align.

So to do it more safely, you'd choose a lower control voltage, like 24vac, 24vdc, 120vac but those all require using a control transformer or power supply, and your knowledge of electrical controls and "ladder logic" needs to be a little higher to make it work right.

Matt,

Your fears are completely unfounded. 240VAC in a household is no more dangerous than 120VAC, since each leg is only 120VAC to ground. So there is no higher voltage to ground in a 240V circuit than in a 120V one. The only way that you are going to see 240V is if you somehow get across both contacts on the switch while it is open, which is very unlikely once it is installed.

And since everybody's house already has 120VAC switches all over it, adding one more, with the same 120VAC to ground potential, will make not one difference in safety.

That's my $.02 from an EE who does commercial building wiring.

[EDIT] Not a bad idea, however, to install a fuse on the 240VAC control wiring circuit at the compressor for this remote switch leg - size depends upon contactor load, but I'm guessing a 1A fuse would work just fine.
 
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Trey T

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I've seen IR and Quincy uses Condor MDR3, which is a pressure switch, heavy duty contactor, and thermal overload.

Pressure switch do go bad and there are bad ones out there, even from Condor, and they're a major brand.

 
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Chadwilliam1

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I wont worry about the remote switch for right now anyway. I do not even have my air line ran down in my basement yet.

How do i wire up the contactor? I am confused.
 
Last edited:

zable9

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Magnetic Starter is sort of a dumbed down term for "motor starter" or "contactor" which is just a relay....albeit a heavy duty one.

Usually you find them in industrial 3 phase power settings where they can also be wired to create reverse rotation of the motor very simply.

In a residential, single phase setting, it has heavier duty contacts than the pressure switch, so instead of using the pressure switch's contacts to stop and start the main motor voltage and current, you get an improved device with much longer life. The pressure switch still is used but its now a low-current "signal"

Overload heaters are exactly that, precisely calibrated electrical heaters, which generate heat in proportion to the current running thru them. The overload heater(s) are placed near a bimetallic strip which has a low-current signaling contact. If enough current is sent thru the heater, it heats the bimetal strip to the point where the contact goes open-circuit. This signal is wired in series with the pressure switch and ultimately keeps the motor starter from closing and attempting to start the motor.

Two reasons for using an overload heater apparatus, 1) in 3 phase electrical wiring, loss of 1 of the 3 phases means the motor is electrically locked and cannot start, however it will draw current on the remaining phase until the windings cook and scrap the motor. If a motor runs unattended as in say on a rooftop blower, it needs a sort of automatic minding device to prevent replacing motors all of the time. 2) second reason is an actual mechanical overload where the motor has all the phases present, but it sits with a locked rotor and cannot turn. The current draw has to be such that fuses don't blow or breakers don't trip but the motor is sitting there humming but not running. Eventually this will also cook the motor as in 1) above.

A couple of practical points. On a single phase setup, an overload heater is sort of a rare bird. Also, if you intend to be present every time the motor runs, you can go shut it off if you hear it humming and grunting. Its easier if the motor runs a machine you are actually standing right in front of, say a lathe or mill. An air compressor could be in a quiet cabinet.

To Size a magnetic starter there are two basic schools of thought, both involve the FLA = full load amperage of the motor in question. Usually its imprinted on the nameplate. Or you can get a rough calculation using your jedi math, Each HP = 745 watts, Watts are volts * amps, so you can resolve the amperage to something like 5hp x 745W / 240vac to get around 15 amps max draw.

The two schools are the NEMA school and the IEC school. To make a long story short, a NEMA -sized starter is hugely overdesigned for industry, literally you might replace it once in a generation in severe duty. IEC is a much smaller device that works perfectly, has a double digit industrial lifespan, but obviously its not built for hell or high water or world wars. Still, you'd likely melt the bearings out of your geared electric power meter before you can wear out a properly sized IEC starter hooked to a 5hp air compressor.

In my experience, used industrial devices work very well in a home shop, its really hard to wear them out. There are brand new "definite purpose contactors" which spring out of the residential HVAC arena that are fairly cheap and work well enough. I consider them lower grade than the industrial devices in terms of lifespan but will handle switching the rated current just fine.

Hope that helped and wasn't too confusing.

Thx for sharing
 

redmondjp

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I wont worry about the remote switch for right now anyway. I do not even have my air line ran down in my basement yet.

How do i wire up the contactor? I am confused.

Assuming that you get a contactor that uses a 240VAC coil:

Connect wire from line (hot) side of contactor, L1 terminal (L1 and L2 are you two 120V hot leads from the panel, each having 120VAC to ground or 240VAC between them) to pressure switch (optional fuse can go in this part of the circuit as well).

Continue from other side of the pressure switch to your remote switch, and then back to the contactor coil. Then other side of contactor coil goes to the L2 terminal.

Then connect the compressor motor to the load side of the same two poles that L1 and L2 are connected to.

Plenty of diagrams of this out there if you look for them.
 

Chadwilliam1

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Wont I need a start stop button on the box for the contactor? Because I will no longer be turning it off and on with the pressure switch. Correct?
 

redmondjp

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Wont I need a start stop button on the box for the contactor? Because I will no longer be turning it off and on with the pressure switch. Correct?

Did you read my earlier post regarding the unloader? Again, assuming that you have the unloader as part of your pressure switch, you're still going to be using the pressure switch to turn off the compressor so the unloader functions properly. The remote switch only prevents the compressor from coming on again. That's why you need to know if the compressor is running or not when you operate the remote switch.

If you want, you can add a second on-off switch at the contactor. No on-off buttons, as seen on some motor starters, are necessary.
 
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