The VISES of Garage Journal

[va.grouseman]

Trijeff,---I agree that the advertising selling point (hollow is stronger), is BS.---I've seen Columbians with holes all the way into the cavity of the tower due to a sledge miss lick.

I posted that my 608 is 180 lbs. because that is what they weigh from the factory.---But as some of these fellows already know, I filled the voids of mine with babbitt lead.---Took 40 lbs. to fill them but they are as solid as Gibraltar.---It weighs 220 lbs. now, but to say that would be confusing to some because 608s don't weigh 220 lbs.

 

[trijeff]

Trijeff ---I agree that the advertising selling point (hollow is stronger), is BS.---I've seen Columbians with holes all the way into the cavity of the tower due to a sledge miss lick

You mean I shouldn't believe everything I read?????

 

[drivesitfar]

TJ: I'm having a hard time reading the date on your ad. does it say 1919? if so do you know or anybody else know if Columbian vises maybe were solid prior to WWII?

VA: i'm still amazed when you tell the story about you filling the jaws of your big 8 inch Columbian with 40 pounds of material. isn't it your main working vise? any chance you might know if Columbian used to make their jaws solid in 1919 if that's what the date on TJ's ad is?

 

[zoomieport]

DIF, it says 2-1-1919.
You've still got it!

Take care!
ZOOM

 

[Lobo74]

I think $40 is a good starting offer. Don't in any way get discouraged by my comments about me thinking $90 is a bit high. I have about 30 some odd vise, many in the 3 to 5" size, so for a 3 1/2" vise, I am less excited. But when I was getting my first and 2nd and so on, I would have been all over a nice Reed in good shape.

I am going to guess you have looked at local ads and a similar vise for about $50-$60 you can't find, or you wouldn't be looking at this. So if you like this vise and it is at the going rate in your neck of the woods, go for it!

Good luck

Thanks for all your help. Very much appreciated. If i pick it up I'll post some pics.

 

[topop101]

Jeremy: nice pictures

ALL: for those of us approaching the age of these pictures i'd like to add a little youtube video I've probably listened to more than a few of the 6 million views it's had.

some of you younger guys and gals just know that this is in your future. enjoy

DRIVESthis song sounds like my daily routine.... thanks.

 

[vintage nut]

Gonna be a lot of wire wheeling today. Hopefully get a coat of primer on the morgan by the end of the day. Also should get the rock island assembled

you can never have too many tools

 

[vintage nut]

Also should be a couple machining build alongs today. I'm making the taper pin out of some 5/8 stainless for the rock island swivel jaw, my dad is going to make the jaw screws for both project vises. I think he has a lot better chance than I do of successfully making the screws. Luckily the morgan and rock island actually have the exact same jaw screws, so once we're set up it's just a case of cranking out 10 of the same part.

you can never have too many tools

 

[va.grouseman]

Trijeff,---I guess if they said it, it must be so.---No one would embellish in advertising just to make a sale.---That would be wrong.

I've seen Columbians with silver dollar size holes in the dynamic jaw.---I have a 208 Reed, a 28 Hollands, a 180 Morgan, a 208 Yost, and naturally the big ones get the most heavy pounding, but I have never seen one of those with a hole in the tower.---That's not to say that they can't be destroyed.---I've seen many 6, 7, and 8 inchers with the tower snapped from the slide.---But none of these with holes.

It took 40 lbs. of lead to fill the voids in the towers, so extrapolating for the difference in weight from lead to ductile iron, I'd say that Columbian saved about 15 to 18 lbs. of iron in the 608s, and lesser in the smaller ones.---Just a guess.---But pennies make dollars.

Drive,---Yea, the 608 is my everyday vise and I love it.---It has so much clamping area on the jaws that things just don't turn when I give them a hard wrenching.---I have to be fair with the Columbians now that I've just given them a good verbal thrashing.---Aside from the voids, I think the Columbians are underrated as far as performance and value.---Even though it's my ''beater vise'' I am real particular with it, not to let any hacksaws or grinders nick it and I wouldn't weld or blow torch with it for nothing.---I have a nonswivler outside for that kind of work.

Oh, and with the extra 40 lbs. of weight, it still swivels with one finger and winds in and out with one finger.---After using an 8 incher for four years, I just couldn't drop back in size.---I WON'T!

 

[454ragtop]

Trijeff,---I guess if they said it, it must be so.---No one would embellish in advertising just to make a sale.---That would be wrong.


After using an 8 incher for four years, I just couldn't drop back in size.---I WON'T!

That's what she said

 

[rasman57]

IronHorseM....that is a cool replacement. Nice detail work and pics!

 

[bluebolt]

Trijeff,---I guess if they said it, it must be so.---No one would embellish in advertising just to make a sale.---That would be wrong.

I've seen Columbians with silver dollar size holes in the dynamic jaw.---I have a 208 Reed, a 28 Hollands, a 180 Morgan, a 208 Yost, and naturally the big ones get the most heavy pounding, but I have never seen one of those with a hole in the tower.---That's not to say that they can't be destroyed.---I've seen many 6, 7, and 8 inchers with the tower snapped from the slide.---But none of these with holes.

It took 40 lbs. of lead to fill the voids in the towers, so extrapolating for the difference in weight from lead to ductile iron, I'd say that Columbian saved about 15 to 18 lbs. of iron in the 608s, and lesser in the smaller ones.---Just a guess.---But pennies make dollars.

Drive,---Yea, the 608 is my everyday vise and I love it.---It has so much clamping area on the jaws that things just don't turn when I give them a hard wrenching.---I have to be fair with the Columbians now that I've just given them a good verbal thrashing.---Aside from the voids, I think the Columbians are underrated as far as performance and value.---Even though it's my ''beater vise'' I am real particular with it, not to let any hacksaws or grinders nick it and I wouldn't weld or blow torch with it for nothing.---I have a nonswivler outside for that kind of work.

Oh, and with the extra 40 lbs. of weight, it still swivels with one finger and winds in and out with one finger.---After using an 8 incher for four years, I just couldn't drop back in size.---I WON'T!

That filling with lead sounds like a good idea. I have a Columbian 508 that might get that treatment.

Drivesitfar, Columbian also had a 7 and 8 1/2" heavy chipping vise that was definitely solid. From Practical Machinist:

The Columbian 'heavy chipping vises' were the No. 107, listed as 7" jaw, 11-1/2" opening, weight 218lbs., and the No. 108-1/2, listed as 8-1/2" jaw width, 13" opening, and weighing 268lbs

 

[jrobb316]

Took another trip down to the Milwaukee Tool and Equipment plant today. I needed to pick up a swivel base for a 4 1/2 I'm gifting to my dad for his anniversary. Asked if I could take a few pics this time and the plant manager, a real cool guy, said he didn't care. They also have a lot of replacement parts for the Chicago vintage vises. I may go back in a while and pick up some jaw inserts for my Chicago 145, they are all in stock. He had a pallet of 80s ready to ship out, so I started asking who buys them and if they sell a lot. He said they sell a ton of them, mainly going on Navy ships (domestic and foreign), and merchant ships. The best seller is the 40. They also still make and sell a ton of the combos, 87, 88, 288, 289s. I was reading back over a thread and I think it was oldie that was amazed they still make it, and its still completely serviceable. Anyways I got a pic of the outside (the shop is in the red wood building on the left), a pallet of 60s and a pallet of 80s. The 80s are on the left and the 60s are the 2 pallets to the right.

 

[meatsis]

Speaking of columbiams, does anybody have any old ads or literature on them? I met a guy right down the road from me who lives on an old farm. In the barn is his grandfathers old blacksmith shop. In there i found a massive old columbian with a swivel base and the old "t" style jaws. He measured the jaws and said they were 8 1/4 across. Just wondering about the weight because this thing made some of my 8 inch vises look small. Needless to say he wouldnt sell it. Said hes gonna be buried with it lol.

 

[bigcaddy]

Speaking of columbiams, does anybody have any old ads or literature on them? I met a guy right down the road from me who lives on an old farm. In the barn is his grandfathers old blacksmith shop. In there i found a massive old columbian with a swivel base and the old "t" style jaws. He measured the jaws and said they were 8 1/4 across. Just wondering about the weight because this thing made some of my 8 inch vises look small. Needless to say he wouldnt sell it. Said hes gonna be buried with it lol.

go back a page or two. Somebody posted a Columbian ad yesteday.

 

[trijeff]

Took another trip down to the Milwaukee Tool and Equipment plant today. I needed to pick up a swivel base for a 4 1/2 I'm gifting to my dad for his anniversary. Asked if I could take a few pics this time and the plant manager, a real cool guy, said he didn't care. They also have a lot of replacement parts for the Chicago vintage vises. I may go back in a while and pick up some jaw inserts for my Chicago 145, they are all in stock. He had a pallet of 80s ready to ship out, so I started asking who buys them and if they sell a lot. He said they sell a ton of them, mainly going on Navy ships (domestic and foreign), and merchant ships. The best seller is the 40. They also still make and sell a ton of the combos, 87, 88, 288, 289s. I was reading back over a thread and I think it was oldie that was amazed they still make it, and its still completely serviceable. Anyways I got a pic of the outside (the shop is in the red wood building on the left), a pallet of 60s and a pallet of 80s. The 80s are on the left and the 60s are the 2 pallets to the right.

VERY COOL!! Thanks for posting this up, jrobb!!! That pallet of 80s is absolutely drool-worthy and definitely was saved for adding to my vise **** collection. Wonder how much they charge the Navy for those bad dogs??? Gotta be like 3X retail

Looks like they paint them right on the pallets, at least partially.

 

[balane]

jrobb, interesting and thank you. I have a question, is their foundry on site? And, if not, do they use an out-of-house foundry or do they have their own somewhere else?

 

[jrobb316]

He actually said the rules for military purchases have changed and the military doesn't buy pallet loads anymore directly, usually. They will go through a wholesaler where they can buy just one if they want. An 80 lists out for $1912. Add a swivel and you're up around $2350. He kind of hinted that foreign military buys more than the U.S. Military does. And merchant ships. Obviously the wholesale price is less than that, factory direct is very nice too

 

[vintage nut]

Any pallets of the much newer versions of my chicago 160? Just finished wire wheeling all the castings off. Gonna prime soon.

you can never have too many tools

 

[jrobb316]

I believe it's all in house, I could be wrong though. There are only about 5 guys that work there now a days, and I think everyone does a little of everything. At least when I've been down there the guys are always doing something else, not just sitting at the same machine.

 

[jrobb316]

Any pallets of the much newer versions of my chicago 160? Just finished wire wheeling all the castings off. Gonna prime soon.

you can never have too many tools

I took the pic of the 60s just for you. They don't make a true 160 anymore, the 160 is a 60 with the optional swivel base. If you order a 160 you get a 60 and they toss in the base in the box with it. Just a 60 you get the vise only. That's why I had to go down there and buy a swivel kit for the 4 1/2.

 

[bigcaddy]

He actually said the rules for military purchases have changed and the military doesn't buy pallet loads anymore directly, usually. They will go through a wholesaler where they can buy just one if they want. An 80 lists out for $1912. Add a swivel and you're up around $2350. He kind of hinted that foreign military buys more than the U.S. Military does. And merchant ships. Obviously the wholesale price is less than that, factory direct is very nice too

1900 isnt' too bad for an 8" vise. Group buy anybody?

 

[Lu-Max]

These are photos of an old Wilton. I was curious what the post on the top was used for? A splitter of some sort?

 

[vintage nut]

I took the pic of the 60s just for you. They don't make a true 160 anymore, the 160 is a 60 with the optional swivel base. If you order a 160 you get a 60 and they toss in the base in the box with it. Just a 60 you get the vise only. That's why I had to go down there and buy a swivel kit for the 4 1/2.

Ahh ok that makes sense. I can definitely see some differences between those, and the one I'm sitting beside. Would you happen to know if they have jaws for a chicago 160 still? It looks like they have changed the jaw style. Mine are definitely functional, but a little rough. If they are still around I might look at a new set someday just to make the vise that much nicer.

you can never have too many tools

 

[bigcaddy]

These are photos of an old Wilton. I was curious what the post on the top was used for? A splitter of some sort?

soft metal cut-off tool. Its a cold chisel sticking straight up, or a Hardy

 

[Tacoma bo]

Finished up my Armstrong pipe vise.

 

[Tacoma bo]

Close up

 

[Tacoma bo]

And a shot from when I bought it.

 

[trijeff]

ALL: Been doing quite a bit of work on the Prentiss 98 lately and found some interesting markings after e-tanking. They are on the bottom-front of the slide and back-top of the dynamic. Not sure if they are dynamic/slide pairing numbers or IDs/serial numbers of some type. You will clearly see a “3”, the other mark looks a little like a “1” but is really some sort of crosshatch or similar. Anybody have any ideas or seen similar on their Prentiss??

 

[drivesitfar]

Lu: that is an interesting vise. it looks like a clamp on with a swivel base. how big is it? also those little hardy cutters were made for a lot of old vises. not surprising that BC being a son of blacksmith might know what they were used for. here's a picture of little vise with the little hardy cutter missing on it that i had handy to post. I bet Balane has made more replacements for the missing hardy cutters on his vise restorations than he actually found a vise with it's original one still on the vise.

JRobb: thanks for sharing and I've saved those awesome Morgan pictures. any more to post or is that all you had time to take?

VA: hard to believe a 180 pound vise wasn't stout enough for you that you had to add another 40 pounds of lead inside it's jaws to make it better. sounds like its a great vise to use as will one of my big vises be once i get a bench set up to mount it to.

TJ: i wonder if there was a guy at Prentiss vise company that ran around with a hammer and a lot of stamps because I've seen #'s all over a Prentiss vise and some match and some don't. Playing with the #98 might be a good AM workout so let's see the video when you get time to make one.

 

[vintage nut]

Rock island is basically finished apart from jaw screws.
I'm real happy with it! I turned the taper pin from a piece of stainless. Fits perfectly. According to the markings on our lathe, it was just under 5 degrees, maybe 4.5. Just need to make some screws tonight, and it's ready to go back into service! All moving parts were lubricated with gear oil, apart from the slide which got paste wax. All fasteners and the center bolt for the swivel base got anti sieze.

The morgan is progressing well! All the castings are cleaned up, and I mixed up some epoxy (west system epoxy, with colodial silica and aluminum powder fillers, essentially making jb weld. I used it as I already had it on hand for knifemaking.) and used it to fill all the hammer and grinder scars on the jaw towers. It'll have to cure at least 5 hours or so, then I can smooth it all out with a roloc on the die grinder.


you can never have too many tools

 

[Filson]

Filson: nice to see you are still around and i hope the new digs are what you hoped they would be when you bought over there in the land of the sun. nicest winter over here in years so i hope you have enough water on your side for the crops.

take care and yes please post pictures of that Reed when you get time.

Old iron is quite scarce over here. Tons of old farms about, but not many people wanting to sell what they have.

I have seen a few good buys however, but school is keeping me broke 99% of the time these days, so I have to pass.

I seen a number of pages back you mentioned how you liked my 208's paint job. I liked it too, but the type of paint wasn't very durable... so it's in the middle of a fresh make over. I'll post pics whenever I get around to finishing her up. I'm really digging the new look.

As for the water over here, I have a natural spring on the property so I really have no worries about running out of household water or water for the garden, but the area itself is likely to see a heavy year of forest fires which concerns me.

... I have to admit, that while it is quite beautiful here in it's own way, I do miss the mossy forests of back home... and believe it or not, I miss the rain lol. Maybe some years down the road when school is over with and all that, I may decide to relocate back on the other side, though it'd probably be somewhere quite remote (far eastern Snohomish/Skagit county area).

 

[drivesitfar]

Vintage: that Rock Island 851 doesn't look much different than when i handed it to you. or does it? here's the before and after pictures for those of you that would like to see how well Vintage can spiff up a 80 year old vise.

very nice and I hope the Morgan 160 treats you nicer from this point forward.

 

[drivesitfar]

Filson: thanks for the update with the pros and cons of living in the land 300+ days of sunshine in Washington. Best of luck with the school and keeping up the farm and maybe you can get some sort of crop growing on all that land to give you some extra funds for some cool old tools.

 

[jrobb316]

Ahh ok that makes sense. I can definitely see some differences between those, and the one I'm sitting beside. Would you happen to know if they have jaws for a chicago 160 still? It looks like they have changed the jaw style. Mine are definitely functional, but a little rough. If they are still around I might look at a new set someday just to make the vise that much nicer.

you can never have too many tools

If your jaws are the u-shaped kind with screws, which I believe you have, yes they are in stock down there. When you're ready I can price you a pair and ship them, no big deal. I will probably get a set for my 145 at the same time.

 

[jrobb316]

JRobb: thanks for sharing and I've saved those awesome Morgan pictures. any more to post or is that all you had time to take?

Thats all I had time for, I was running late but stayed longer and snapped a few anyways.

 

[rasman57]

Those pallets of Morgans are just flat out cool. So nice to see the MADE IN THE USA!

 

[vintage nut]

If your jaws are the u-shaped kind with screws, which I believe you have, yes they are in stock down there. When you're ready I can price you a pair and ship them, no big deal. I will probably get a set for my 145 at the same time.

They are U shaped, same as my rock island. And I'm in no rush, depending on the cost I might be interested in a set next time you're at morgan

you can never have too many tools

 

[zoomieport]

Speaking of columbiams, does anybody have any old ads or literature on them? I met a guy right down the road from me who lives on an old farm. In the barn is his grandfathers old blacksmith shop. In there i found a massive old columbian with a swivel base and the old "t" style jaws. He measured the jaws and said they were 8 1/4 across. Just wondering about the weight because this thing made some of my 8 inch vises look small. Needless to say he wouldnt sell it. Said hes gonna be buried with it lol.

8" jaws, opens 13", weighs 160lbs..

Take care!
ZOOM

 

[meatsis]

zoomie I cant imagine it only weighs 160lbs. last year I sold a newer style Columbian 508 that weighed in around 180. and that was without the swivel base. it didn't have the "T" style jaws, it had jaws similar to the wilton bullets. it was about 20-25 years old. came out of an old factory and was never used. but anyway, the Columbian I mentioned earlier was much older. the guy who has it now is in his 60's, and it belonged to his grandfather a long long time ago. it had the "T" style jaws and I watched him measure them. they were 8 1/4 inches across. with the swivel base added it had to be way over 180lbs. it really makes my reed 108 and parker 958 look small. that's why I was hoping someone would have an old ad with this vise in it. if I had to guess I would say its probably in the 250-300lb range.