Acetylene, Oxygen and Argon Bottles

[kirkkw]

My Dad was a welder and has all the above bottles in his shop. I purchased an argon bottle for TIG welding a few years ago so I know they are bought and owned.

My Dad's bottles have been in his shop for the past 30 years - obviously, not the exact bottles as he replaced them when they needed to be refilled. He simply took the old and exchanged it for a full bottle.

Actually, he died last June and I plan to take ownership of his bottles. I think he "owns" the bottles since his is not paying rent for them.

What is the practice in the welding industry - does he actually own the bottles since he is not paying a rental fee for them or are they loaned to him as a customer by the local welding supply store?

There are several local welding suppliers so at this point I don't know which one he used.

If, he indeed owns the bottles, then I plan to take them to my house and use them in my newly acquired shop which is 300+ miles away. So I will then be taking these bottles to welding suppliers close to my new home.

In a nutshell my questions are:
1. Since he is not paying rent - does that mean he bought the bottles sometime in the distant past?

2. Is it general practice in the industry for the welding gas supplier to provide bottles free for use?

3. If the answer to 2 above is No and he is not paying rent then the bottles are available for me to take.

Thanks Ken

 

[kirkkw]

Doing a little work in the garage - converting stainless steel liquid processors into art.

I can't say what liquid was formerly processed in these stainless steel containers.

 

[CGT80]

Check the ring on the necks of the bottles for a stamped name. Bottles owned by a big company or rented out will be stamped. A clean stamp means he owned the bottle. I use airgas a lot and they will swap a bottle with their own stamp or a clean ring. California tool will do the same, but they will also re-fill the bottle I take in, if the date code is still good. I took in a big bottle and it was expired but had someone else's stamp. I had a company test and re-certify the bottle for $40 and then had the bottled filled by California tool, which was much cheaper than the price that airgas charges for the same gas.

It kind of depends on what is on the ring and how your local welding supplier deals with bottles. Companies have been bought out in the past, so a stamped ring could belong to a current company who has a different name than that stamp.

Take a picture and ask your local shop or just use the bottles and deal with it when the time comes. Bottles are not cheap. I have had airgas swap out the bottle I had for a clean ring before. I then traded that one with another shop to get a new smaller bottle which I had filled with a tri mix to mig weld stainless.

 

[metaldad]

most likely, those cylinders are now yours.
you'll have to find out which company will 'service' them.
cylinders require hydro test every 5 years.
if you do find out who'll take them, in exchange, if out of date, you'll pay for the retest, and the gas.
we ran into a few cylinders, no one local will take. they're dead. eventually to the scrap heap.
btw, we 'rent' cylinders. we pay a monthly fee on them, called, i think, demurrage. it's easy for a shop our size to misplace cylinders and keep paying for them.

 

[chris142]

The different supply places paint the top different colors.

 

[Ign]

Depending on how much they expand cylinders can be cert'd for 5 or 10 years, and possibly other denominations.

But the best advice was "it depends on how your local supplier handles bottles." Common practice in the industry is COMPLETE INCONSISTENCY. Seriously. The OP will just have to beat the pavement, make some phone calls and do some research (locally).

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Does anyone know if this kind of thing has liberalized over the years? What I mean is, about 25 years ago a Millwright friend of mine showed me his I.D. card in his wallet that certified he owned his tanks. He said if you don't have one of those they will automatically confiscate the tanks as stolen and may call the law.

Fast forward to a few years ago I was able to buy a complete setup from a guy going through a divorce--large AC and O2 tanks, regulators, Victor head, new(ish) hoses--for $75.

I left his place and went straight to the nearest welding supply shop. I had the guy's name, address, etc. so I knew I wasn't going to get into trouble, and the shop acted like it was no big deal at all--he actually said, "I always assume if you possess them, then you own them."

He looked up the guy's name and said he hadn't traded with them in several years, but they were legit owned. Hopefully I'm okay having them, but the price was such I can't get hurt either way.

Oh, he did say I would have to pay the $30 recert fee when I brought them in.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

But the best advice was "it depends on how your local supplier handles bottles." Common practice in the industry is COMPLETE INCONSISTENCY. Seriously. The OP will just have to beat the pavement, make some phone calls and do some research (locally).

This ^. Any info from anyone here is pretty much useless. Start making calls. It's the only way.

 

[Mike007]

Does anyone know if this kind of thing has liberalized over the years?

I would say this, it has at least around here. I picked up a set of tanks on Craigslist. They were 40 years old and had a company name cast into the collar. Prior to buying them I called my welding supplier and he told me he could exchange them for tanks with their name on them.

He said what happens, they will send the tanks back to the acetylene supplier and in return they will get their bottles back that were taken in by other welding suppliers the same way. So the acetylene supplier is always returning bottles to their owner.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I would say this, it has at least around here. I picked up a set of tanks on Craigslist. They were 40 years old and had a company name cast into the collar. Prior to buying them I called my welding supplier and he told me he could exchange them for tanks with their name on them.

He said what happens, they will send the tanks back to the acetylene supplier and in return they will get their bottles back that were taken in by other welding suppliers the same way. So the acetylene supplier is always returning bottles to their owner.

Ah, so there is coordination within the industry. That is a GREAT thing for guys like us. Thanks for the info!

 

[bonneyman]

In AZ we "lease" the tanks. You pay a deposit when you first get them, and then turn them in and get a filled one for just the cost of the gas. When you retire or quit the business, you're supposed to be able to return the tanks, and get your deposit back.
Which, I found out last year, they no longer honor. "Too many people go buy tanks for $20 at the swap meet, and then come in here and get their $170 deposit back! HQ has said without receipt - no returned deposit!" Well, after 25 years of regularly coming in and being a licensed contractor and them knowing me to be told they couldn't trust me, I told them I'd no longer buy from them.

When I retire I'll just sell the tanks for whatever the market will bear and that's that.

 

[Doug Arthurs]

Here big bottles are leased and the small bottle I use for mig welding is owned by me. No recert needed on it because everytime I bring it in to the company I bought it from they give me a different full one.

 

[Ign]

I would say this, it has at least around here. I picked up a set of tanks on Craigslist. They were 40 years old and had a company name cast into the collar. Prior to buying them I called my welding supplier and he told me he could exchange them for tanks with their name on them.

He said what happens, they will send the tanks back to the acetylene supplier and in return they will get their bottles back that were taken in by other welding suppliers the same way. So the acetylene supplier is always returning bottles to their owner.

2 things: I agree, around me it has relaxed, BUT my place is small, they have three locations, total. And I fully expect them to change their minds at any time, just as they changed their minds over the past few years to start filling anyone's tank.............there's no reason for me to think they won't flip-flop in another 5 years. Kinda like my wife, just because she likes something today doesn't mean she won't hate it tomorrow.

Second, acetylene is a little different, at least here. Around here, no one fills acetylene, so you really don't have much choice but to swap in your tank, even if you own it. And then - at least here - they only give you one with their collar on it............meaning, theoretically, no one else should touch it. But other cylinders like O2, MIG mixes, etc can be filled so there's no need to swap in your privately-owned tank. If it's out of cert they send it to their one location that does hydro, it's not terribly expensive but takes about 2 weeks. However in other places of the country there isn't always a place that can fill ANYTHING, so swapping is your only choice, period.

I've always wondered what's to stop someone from just stamping a tank themselves, unless the stamps are supposed to be hard to get, kinda like pick sets for locksmiths? In many cases just adding a single symbol takes the cert from 5 years to 10 years. Not that I've ever done this, just don't need to.

 

[bonneyman]

....Kinda like my wife, just because she likes something today doesn't mean she won't hate it tomorrow.....

So long as the thing she changes her mind on isn't you!

 

[tedsters]

the bottles here the largest you can own are the 4ft 120 cf. the larger one ones are the commercial rent only

 

[soj]

I bought a argon mix bottle several years ago from a local supply house. Swapped it several times there until I moved to another state. Swapped it here a couple of times (local supply house), then ran out on a weekend. Swapped it at Tractor Supply for a Gas Pony bottle. When that ran out I took it to the local supply house (now bought out by a larger company) and they wouldn't swap it. Company policy, no Gas Pony bottles. Bummer. Went to Tractor Supply and they no longer had cyl. exchange. Next closest Gas Pony location is almost 40 miles away. And when I got there, they were out of argon mix. But my luck changed, the Gas Pony truck pulled up and saved my day.

If you own a cylinder, beware of Gas Pony!

 

[jnkpile]

Here big bottles are leased and the small bottle I use for mig welding is owned by me. No recert needed on it because everytime I bring it in to the company I bought it from they give me a different full one.

This is the same for me too. It did **** the first time taking my brand new bottle in to be refilled and getting a different used bottle in return!