To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Seriously disheartened by Craftsman Quality

Fedwrench

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
14,951
Location
Valley of the sun
I am saying it again, every tool company too include the tool truck brands has issues with quality control occasionally. If the factory worker doesn't give a **** about the finished product or what they shove in a box, then you're going to see irregular tools on store shelves. I know this is a rough crowd that demands something for nothing on a regular basis. However, I am still one of of those people that believes that for pennies on the piece, you can't beat a US made Craftsman tool with a lifetime warranty. They aren't perfect but, they'll get the job done for most people in most cicumstances. If you're not satisfied, take the tools back and get sears to make it right. I'm seeing alot of Toptul pictures lately as examples of fit, finish, and affordability. I'm thinking that most of us with Toptul have maybe a year or so of use with their tools. I think the jury is still out on how they will hold up in the long haul. Choice is one one the great things about this country. No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to buy a particular brand of tool. Be happy with the tools you have and make them work for you.:beer:
No one should ever encourage Craftsman or any American company just to give up.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Shocker

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
2,015
Location
Olympia, WA
Amen there Fed.

So for all of you that stated you just bought or recently bought a set, what happened? Some are saying they are not reliable or work as well etc. Details please. I just get tired of those kinds of statements that offer no explanations.

Kinda like..."You see my brother's, dad's, uncles', buddies, friend said that this guy had problems with this tool."

:)
 
OP
J

JohnMcD348

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
614
Location
Lakeland, FL
I can say I've never had a problem with any of my Craftsman tools that were not attributable to user error or improper care except once when a breaker bar broke. It just struck me how the general quality of the pieces I looked at yesterday were not nearly as good as they used to be. The chrome finish on the parts were discolored and the one part that didn't have the size engraved struck me as odd. Some of the other pieces were barely readable. I'm sure they will still turn a nut or bolt when I ask them to.
 

billymade

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
7,461
Location
New Mexico
You are not losing your mind and your eyes are not deceiving you; the quality has gone down... sadly, it is a fact! That being said; examine the tools before you buy them or if you find stuff that is defective; take them to the store and swap them out.
 

posaune

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
899
Location
Collinsville, Connecticut
OK, for 40$ what were you expecting?:confused: Most ppl spend more than that on a single ratchet.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

If you want quality you have to pay for it!

Don't expect top of the line quality at discount prices!!!

The problem is that many of the people complaining about current Craftsman quality own older Craftsman tools that were bought at a low price and ARE good tools.

When I got interested in mechanics, I bought a bunch of Cm stuff on my grandfather's advice. He had Craftsman and it had served him for years (he was a mechanical engineer at United Nuclear in Groton, CT). The stuff I bought in the late 80s/early 90s was also great and served me well until '07 when I decided to add significantly to my tools. The Cm stuff bought in '07 did not look/feel like *nearly* the quality of the older stuff. In fact, it was the reason I started looking at other brands.

That is the problem - quality is going downhill. People who buy Craftsman expect a certain quality - maybe not THE best, but it should be clearly better than cheap imports like HF. Unfortunately, it seems that Sears is not providing that quality anymore. They can only ride on their reputation and warranty for so long.
 

klswvu

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
74
Location
Morgantown, WV
1/2" breaker bar and try to fit a 1/2 socket on to the breaker bar none fit right, I tryed to fit many different ones and still go the same answer. No fit. the breaker barhead is to big for the socket. At lease at my sears.

Oddly enough, I had this exact same issue over a year ago. However, it was replaced with one that had no issues. The QC seems to be getting worse. FYI the breaker bar has held up well.
 

goodfellow

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
2,288
Location
NoVA
You guys can't convince me of this "C-man quality gone down" dribble. I've been wrenching for almost 40 years, and this same lame argument has been made most of those four decades.

The fact is that every brand has/had problems (just a few examples -- snap-on had chrome problems in the 70's, MAC had major ratchet problems in the 60's, and Vulcan had problems with their alloys in the late 50's)

The only noticeable difference across the board in all brands is in the quality of the chrome plating, which is strictly due to ever growing environmental regulations.

C-man and all the others have bad production runs on a regular basis. I have many examples of bad stampings and broachings from many top of the line too suppliers. All these tools are decades old.

I'll go out on a limb and say that tool defects were much more common in previous decades than today. The difference is that people expected such problems and didn't think is was "the end of the world". They simply returned the tool and got a replacement -- no big deal!!!

The fact that there are so few defects today makes EVERY defect that is found a media event. Today, it takes one small socket defect or a broaching to be off by a fraction of an inch and some guys come running with the dial calipers and micrometers to rant about how bad the entire tool line is.

You can't get a better deal on US made tools than Craftsman. In most cases you're buying these items for a few cents -- get it replaced and be glad you can get such a good deal in today's economy.

Not trying to offend here, but this "Craftsman Quality" debate has been thrashed and debated for decades. Who cares!!! The tools work, and if by some off chance they break, you get it replaced under warranty. I'm satisfied with that.
 
Last edited:

posaune

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
899
Location
Collinsville, Connecticut
You guys can't convince me of this "C-man quality gone down" dribble. I've been wrenching for almost 40 years, and this same lame argument has been made most of those four decades.

The fact is that every brand has/had problems (just a few examples -- snap-on had chrome problems in the 70's, MAC had major ratchet problems in the 60's, and Vulcan had problems with their alloys in the late 50's)

The only noticeable difference across the board in all brands is in the quality of the chrome plating, which is strictly due to ever growing environemental regulations.

C-man and all the others have bad production runs on a regular basis. I have many examples of bad stampings and broachings from many top of the line too suppliers. All these tools are decades old.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that tool defects were much more common in previous decades than today. The difference is that people expected such problems and didn't think is was "the end of the world". They simply returned the tool and got a replacement -- no big deal!!!

The fact that there are so few defect today makes EVERY defect that is found a media event. Today, it takes one small socket defect or a broaching to be off by a fraction of an inch and some guys come running with the dial calipers and micrometers to rant about how bad the entire tool line is.

To be clear, *I* was never talking about defects. I realise that all companies have defective pieces. For that matter, I have never gotten a defective Cm tool, but I have had two defective Proto ones and an SK.

I agree that the defective tool debate is rather pointless if there is a Sears within 20 miles or so... unless your Sears tries repeatedly to deny warranty claims, which I guess some do.

You can't get a better deal on US made tools than Craftsman. In most cases you're buying these items for a few cents -- get it replaced and be glad you can get such a good deal in today's economy.

Not trying to offend here, but this "Craftman Quality" debate has been thrashed and debated for decades. Who cares!!! The tools work, and if by some off chance they break, you get it replaced under warranty. I'm satisfied with that.

No, you *can't* get a better deal on US made tools than Craftsman. But Craftsman is no longer the clear choice. Gearwrench is cheaper and possibly just as good with a similar warranty. Toptul is cheaper and from the reports I've read here, better. It also has the same (though maybe not as convenient) warranty. I'm sure there are others too.

Craftsman used to be the BEST tool for the money and now it just isn't. Maybe that is just because there are more options now. Maybe it is because other countries are catching up (Japan first, then Taiwan, now China). But add to that the fact that to me (and obviously to others) they don't feel as good as they used to and the only reason to buy Cm is that it is made in the US. That is fine for some of us on the board, but it will only work for so long. The general public is not necessarily looking for US made tools.

Don't get me wrong, I buy mostly US made tools and I would like nothing more than to see Craftsman survive. I just think they are losing their place in the market.
 

RRmech

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
1,084
Location
Santa Fe, NM
Craftsman survive??
You got to be kidding??
50 years from now.....they'll still be outselling every other American-made tool manufacturer.....by a wide margin.
Good price, easy to use warranty, and for 95% of the general public.....good enough tools.

Steve
 

posaune

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
899
Location
Collinsville, Connecticut
Craftsman survive??
You got to be kidding??
50 years from now.....they'll still be outselling every other American-made tool manufacturer.....by a wide margin.
Good price, easy to use warranty, and for 95% of the general public.....good enough tools.

Steve

You must have missed the recent threads on that.

But yes, for 95% of the general public they are good enough - so is everything else. My guess is that most of the public in the US would rather have something cheaper that they can throw away anyway.

The idea that they will be there no matter what went on at GM, Chrysler and Ford for a long time too...
 

tpolley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
2,166
Location
kansas city
aout 10 years ago i bought a set of caftsman tools. came with a bunch of 1/4, 3/8, and half inch drive sockets along with the cheapy nut driver and misc bits and those dumb-**** double ened double sided open ended wrenches. i immediately threw out all but the sockets and ratchets. every socket had something craftsman advertised as a "positive locking design" which basically looked like every socket slipped in the die when they cut the detent for the ball bearing quick release holdy thing on the ratchet end. it's hard to describe but it looks like there are two sets of cut outs on the sockets and one set is right on the edge of where the ratched goes in to the socket. it's kinda dumb. i'll post pictures. it really looks like they screwed up and tried to cover it up by calling it a "positive locking design". it really doesn't affect the performance of the sockets so i didn't bother swapping them out. i haven't seen anything like it since.

last year i bought a 4 drawer hand tool box to replace my old 3 drawe ralley tool box i bought 15 years ago. what a pile of **** the new boxes are. the aluminum trim on the grips on the slide out drawers keeps sliding to one side and now they're all bent to hell. i've lubed the slides several times but they keep getting hung up and won't allow the drawers to close 75% of the time. i have to jack with them to get them to close.

i always thought their older ratches were ****. every time i see one, i don't know what time frame they are but they look like the current teardrop raised panel. instead of the retaining ring that has holes in it for split ring pliers it has two flat stubs like you'd use a pair of needle nose pliers. those things are way rough. they sound like there are about 3 or 4 great big teeth inside. i can't speak for their newer hand tools. the 10 year old sockets i have are fine other than that afore mentioned second set of cut outs. i have an exended handle swivel headed 3/8 raised panel ratchet that's about 2 or 3 years old, i'm happy with it. their power tools are better than alot of people will admit i think. i have a set of c3 power tools and i'll admit they'll never out perform a milwauke or dewalt but at about 1/3 of the price i'm very pleased with them. i have a set of their reversible ratcheting wrenches metric and standard. i wish the handes were about 2 or 3 inches longer but they're built like brick outhouses. you can't bust 'em. over the course of a few weekends i got to use a brand new craftsman professional 1/2 inch impact. i didn't like the shiney polished finish as it was easy to scratch and ended up looking like it had been thru world war 3 by the time we got done with it. i didn't really put it to the test as far as really stubborn bolts but the thing was VERY quiet. comfortable, well balanced and easy to use. it just felt good in the hand. i was pleased with it and i'm used to an ingersol 2135.
 
Last edited:

Bull

Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
16,189
Location
MA
But, you know, Craftsman totally *****, and just looks horrible when I make 8x10 glossy prints of them posed on satin pillows.

I don't care who you are, that right there is a funny line!
 

GN4WHLN

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
2,073
Location
Alta Loma, CA
That is the problem - quality is going downhill. People who buy Craftsman expect a certain quality - maybe not THE best, but it should be clearly better than cheap imports like HF. Unfortunately, it seems that Sears is not providing that quality anymore. They can only ride on their reputation and warranty for so long.


Like many of you, I like the quality of my older Craftsman stuff better. I have never had any end wrenches break, but have smoked my fair share of wratchets, sockets, and screwdrivers. I hate going into the hardware dept and dealing with some pin head who doesn't know the difference between a 6pt socket, a 12 pt, and the space between their ears. Some basic training would help. I used to work at a Sears store when I was in college and the hardware dept was the store's cash cow. I cannot see how that can continue if they piss away their reputation with the guys that buy stuff and a lot of it. Craftsman has a great distribution network and name recognition, thay simply need to deliver a little more on quality and QC and they would have it right.
 

Chris Adams

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,117
Beat to death argument;

Craftsman quality on their hand tools is deteriorating. A lot. Anyone that is arguing has no clue about the tools themselves. If you look at their tools from ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago, to today and try to argue the quality is still as good, you are lying or seriously deluded.
They are ‘edging’ you towards the Pro line, and the deluxe models, to get the build quality that you got twenty years ago on the standard model.
This is a way of doing business, and a standard marketing model.
De-content the product, but offer to up-sell to a slightly better model for a ‘reasonable’ sum.

This is a marketing plan, not accident. DUH. Learn how businesses work, before posting, please.

The taco at Jack in the Box used to be big, say in 1972. Then it kept getting smaller till they offered the ‘deluxe’ taco, slightly bigger than the original, but for more money.
Marketing, for Pete’s sake.
M&M’s came in a big bag, then the bag got smaller and smaller, then they offered a ‘deluxe’ bag, slightly bigger than the original bag, for lots more money.
Seven up used to be SEVEN OUNCES in a bottle. DUH. SEVEN UP.

Don’t even want to talk about cars, but Olds Cutlass was a BIG car, then a MIDSIZE car, then a COMPACT car.
You could always buy the same size car, but it cost more as it was now a Cutlass Supreme, or another model number.

You sell a product at N price for X gross profit.
Then you de-content it (remove extra’s, make it smaller, make it cheaper, etc.) then offer in for slightly less so it looks like the price dropped a LOT in the human mind (who remembers, or reads, that last year it cost 10% more) but this year it is 10% cheaper WOW, but UMM, now it’s 10% worse or shoddier, or less equipped. But that’s OK, for last years price, plus a mere 10% more, you can get a better car/taco/candy, whatever.
Keeps the price point constantly competitive, keeps the bargain hunter happy, makes the guy who wants more content pay a little more for what is essentially the same thing.

The problem with the Craftsman tool line is more perceived than real.
The tools are cheaper, using plastic where metal was used, cutting corners on production.
But the price is lower in real dollars than it was say ten, twenty, thirty years ago. Dig up some old catalogs or receipts. Then run an online inflation calculator.

Where the REAL problem is, the import tools are WAY better than they were 10,20,30 years ago. WAY BETTER.
Sears cannot keep using a VERY OLD marketing practice and stay competitive in the tool market. So they are moving away from Craftsman to GearWrench, Eko (sp) etc.
And selling the pro line as basically the old homeowners line.
Now homeowners buy the Pro if they want quality like they used to get on the standard.

This is not going to end well for Sears. Or for the American tool aficionados
As labor, legal, and other prices shoot through the ceiling on US built tools Sears is going to be forced to lean ever more heavily on import tools, and even then, have to tighten up on their warranty.
You can’t turn back the clock, no matter how much we want to.

Good news is, high quality tools will be (adjusted for inflation) cheaper in the long run.
Bad news is, it ain’t gonna be made here, unless you pay PREMIUM price, or in other words, American made tools are niche items and going to stay that way.
 

Mr.Nutcase

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
3,850
Location
USA
Some socket I bought the crome feel off, to them to sears,
They were the laser ones...
they gave me new ones. What a pain......
The replacements are laser and they are stamped like the ones one.
Must had been a bad load/batch
 

tpolley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
2,166
Location
kansas city
Beat to death argument;

Craftsman quality on their hand tools is deteriorating. A lot. Anyone that is arguing has no clue about the tools themselves. If you look at their tools from ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago, to today and try to argue the quality is still as good, you are lying or seriously deluded.
They are ‘edging’ you towards the Pro line, and the deluxe models, to get the build quality that you got twenty years ago on the standard model.
This is a way of doing business, and a standard marketing model.
De-content the product, but offer to up-sell to a slightly better model for a ‘reasonable’ sum.

This is a marketing plan, not accident. DUH. Learn how businesses work, before posting, please.
.

i understand what you're saying. i'm not arguing with you but why not just charge a little more the tool due to inflation and keep the same quality? surely everyone understands inflation by now. companies gotta pay their union emplyees 5 dollar an hour raises every year. the gov't impliments "pollution" taxes and forces them to use "less polluting" materials. gas prices increase.
 

M5 LiTE

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
177
Location
Herndon, VA
I'm lucky to be alive after that brake job, I tell you, what with the risk of my Craftsman tools exploding like that antimatter bomb in Angels & Demons...

Ha - yeah, that explosion effect was awesome - something you don't get reading the book, but as usual, the book is about 10X better than the movie.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

garfunkle24

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
3,428
Location
Saskatoon, Canada
i understand what you're saying. i'm not arguing with you but why not just charge a little more the tool due to inflation and keep the same quality? surely everyone understands inflation by now. companies gotta pay their union emplyees 5 dollar an hour raises every year. the gov't impliments "pollution" taxes and forces them to use "less polluting" materials. gas prices increase.

Because then the 95% of people who are happy with 'good enough' wouldn't buy them at all. Lower sales and hence the loss of economies of scale would result in yet higher prices.
 

06wt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
858
Location
chicago 434 UNION CARPENTER
I probly hav 200-300 craftsman sockets, sum ive had since i was 7 sum r only a cuple years old. I hav cracked 5 craftsman sockets since i hav bin wrenching. 4 from cheaters and the 15 mm deep well just got old i guess, as alot of gm bolt heads r 15mm, i cracked the deep 15 with a 3/8 ratchet. I have probly the same amount of snap-on sockets, and yes there is a differance but imo snap-on sockets r maby 25-30% better then craftsman but thet cost 300% more. All my snap-on sockets r used, i only buy off the truck for specialty tools, every thing else i buy second hand.
 

Old Donn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,585
Location
Michigan
I'm not a pro and I guess I don't use my tools as much as I thought after reading some of the above entries. I've never had a problem with my C-man tools, whether it's the 50+ year old stuff I inherited from my dad, or recent purchases. At my age, I'm not chasing tool trucks, (can't justify the expense), or replacing what I have with something like Toptul. No slam on Toptul, it looks like good stuff and there are ample testimonials saying so. Good , bad, or otherwise, I've got what I've got. If that makes me a "good enough" tool guy? Guilty.
 
Last edited:

Chris Adams

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,117
i understand what you're saying. i'm not arguing with you but why not just charge a little more the tool due to inflation and keep the same quality? surely everyone understands inflation by now. companies gotta pay their union emplyees 5 dollar an hour raises every year. the gov't impliments "pollution" taxes and forces them to use "less polluting" materials. gas prices increase.

People WOULD NOT BUY the raised panel at a higher price. Actually, the price is, has, and MUST drop, or the sales will drop even more.

It's called a 'price point'. That is, what you ( the customer) will pay for a specific something.
Say it's a taco.
You will pay 59 to 99 cents. Period. You won't pay 1.49 for a taco that is the same as the one you paid 89 cents for last year. You will just complain and go elsewhere.
You may buy the taco Grande, or max taco or whatever for 1.89 and get roughly your old 89 cent taco and 30 cents more meat. See how it works? You aren't buying the old unit at a much higher price. You are buying something better at a MUCH higher price.
Humans buy that way.
Think I'm kidding? Look around. The marketing system in this country (and everywhere else people have freedom to buy) is based on this concept.

You can NOT absorb the increased cost of government/labor/lawsuits by just raising your prices. It would require a constant price increase, every month, quarter, year. Last year’s 8.00 wrench would be 10.00, then 12.00 etc.
No one would buy it, because a Taiwan wrench would be 6.00, and STAY 6.00.
So you have to get what is called creative, or outside the box, or whatever cliché buzz word is hot today.

So you cheapen the wrench till you still make the same gross profit on it that you did at 8.00, even though costs (labor/legal/taxes) are up. But you can't expand, grow or even break even at that rate.
So you push the 'deluxe' wrench which costs a little more to make-market, but sells for 20-60% more, equaling more dollars on the bottom line.

Or you can go out of business. You can't cut labor costs except by leaving the country. You can't cut cost of government from OSHA to EPA to taxes. You can't cut legal costs.
So you de-content the product, push the premium product and hope to continue till you retire/die/go to another company.
Welcome to the real world.

The guys that carry on the most about ‘buying American’ (a noble idea but not real practical) WILL NOT buy a Craftsman raised panel at 12.00, which is what it would cost based on keeping the quality the same, the warranty the same, the in-stock condition the same, (inventory cost LOTS of money, keeping it in-stock as needed costs more than the wrench itself, trust me) etc. means the price has GOT to rise.
Most the buy American crowd only hate the people who have the responsibility to keep the price down, the people who get ulcers and heart attacks trying to get the product to the customer at a price the customer will pay.
They seldom attack the guy screwing up on the line, raising prices, the guy on drugs running the machine that makes all the defects, the Union bosses in their mansions raking in killer money by shaking down the rank and file as well as the company making the product, the welfare mentality that keeps so many out of the workforce, the trial lawyers suing when a guy puts a screwdriver through his hand when drunk, the shoplifters, the employees stealing, etc.
No, they get mad at the people who are REQUIRED by LAW to maximize the company’s profits.
Yes, the law says that a company CEO, or board can GO TO JAIL if they deliberately make choices that damage or reduce the company’s profits.
You see, the government protects the Unions, the school teachers, the plumbers, the mechanics, EVERYONE who owns stock in those companies from the management committing misfeasance. That is, failing to do the right thing for the owners, who are unions, profit sharing funds, mutual funds, retirement funds, grandmothers, and just about everyone else.
Those ‘owners’ who hold stock are protected from CEO’s, board members, company presidents, etc. who want to make less profit, thus stealing from the owners.

It’s a complicated field and everyone is an expert, especially the guys who have never met a payroll, been at a board meeting, been sued by a shyster, or been shaken down by a union official for a kickback.
 
Last edited:

swhite832

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
10
The way I see it is;

1. Who cares if the chrome chips. If the tolerances are good and I can read the size it can be ugly all day long. I am not looking for beauty.
2. If it is reasonably strong and does not have chronic breaking problems it is good. If it does break it is EASILY replaceable. Convenience has value.
3. Where else can you buy a reasonably good, 306 pc, tool set for $360?

If a chain store were to carry Toptul(assuming good tolerances), offer package deals, have a good warranty I would buy those tools. I will not set on foot on one of those trucks unless I need a ratchet.

All things being equal I will by the American made vs. overseas.

Give me something that works that can be readily exchanged. If I want beauty I'll look in the mirror....I mean at my wife.

BTW who carries Toptul?
 

johnny1290

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
357
Location
Chino
Unfortunately, my money says Chris Adams hit the nail on the head. And I'm willing to bet he didn't learn those lessons reading a book, that's the kind of stuff you learn first hand.

And FWIW I'm a 15 year union member, and unfortunately what he's saying about the union bosses is correct too.
 

swhite832

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
10
Unfortunately, my money says Chris Adams hit the nail on the head. And I'm willing to bet he didn't learn those lessons reading a book, that's the kind of stuff you learn first hand.

And FWIW I'm a 15 year union member, and unfortunately what he's saying about the union bosses is correct too.


Yep 15 year union here as well and he is absolutely right. It is unfortunate the way people go about making money.

Teach a kid how to turn a wrench, be grateful, and grow tomatoes and this country will be great again.
 

krehmkej

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Oregon
Not pretty, but it DOES get the job done..
socket.jpg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom