Question on New Windows and Siding

[chinaclipper]

After a long winter, I am looking forward to clearing out my garage and moving into my new shed! I will FINALLY get my garage back.....
The problem is this: I NOW want to put windows in the shed, but the shed already has (wooden) siding on it, running in a horizontal fashion.
I get how to put in a window, but what is confusing me is how to adapt for the siding.... I want to put in a few 14x21" windows, but how do I frame around the already installed siding?
Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Edit; OP originally specified plastic siding.

Vinyl siding is easy to take apart once you know how. There is a special tool called a "zip" tool, costs about $10.00. Use that to unlock the sheet above where the top of the window is going to be, then remove the nails of the sheets below until you have enough off to install the window. Make sure to flash the window correctly and then install jay trim and reside, cutting the siding to fit with a 1/4" of side to side movement. Make sure to NOT hit the nails tight, the siding needs to be able to move with expansion and contraction.

 

[Kaizen]

you remove the siding install the window and put a j channel all around the window. it hides and holds the edge of the siding.

 

[chinaclipper]

I spoke too soon! It is a wooden (cypress) siding.....Looking again to see how to do the edge of the window. I am SURE this would have been much easier if I did this before siding was installed, live and learn right?

 

[volleyball]

You just take off the siding around the window, frame, install window, flash and reinstall siding. Another way is to using a circular saw cut the siding for the window and the molding that you will install.

 

[tcianci]

Don't take any siding off. Work from the inside and rework the building frame to create the rough opening for the window. Cut through the sheathing and siding from the inside with a Sawsall. Put the window in the opening from the outside and tack it in place plumb and square with a few nails or drywall screws. Once the window is in place, select some trim to use as the exterior casing. This material should be slightly wider than the nailing flange of the window. Hold a piece of that material up against the the jamb of the window on the exterior so that it is touching the jamb surface that you want the finished trim to go up against. Trace a line on the siding all around the window. Remove the window from the opening and cut away the siding with a skillsaw, being careful to set the depth so that only the siding and not the sheathing is cut. Remove the cut off siding and slip a piece of head flashing that matches the thickness of your trim between the siding and sheathing at the top of the window. Permenently install the window and then apply the desired trim all around the window, caulk it if needed. Declare victory and go home proud!

 

[dfiler2]

Don't take any siding off. Work from the inside and rework the building frame to create the rough opening for the window. Cut through the sheathing and siding from the inside with a Sawsall. Put the window in the opening from the outside and tack it in place plumb and square with a few nails or drywall screws. Once the window is in place, select some trim to use as the exterior casing. This material should be slightly wider than the nailing flange of the window. Hold a piece of that material up against the the jamb of the window on the exterior so that it is touching the jamb surface that you want the finished trim to go up against. Trace a line on the siding all around the window. Remove the window from the opening and cut away the siding with a skillsaw, being careful to set the depth so that only the siding and not the sheathing is cut. Remove the cut off siding and slip a piece of head flashing that matches the thickness of your trim between the siding and sheathing at the top of the window. Permenently install the window and then apply the desired trim all around the window, caulk it if needed. Declare victory and go home proud!

^^^This is exactly how to do it. It helps to have a Multimaster type tool to finish the saw cuts for the trim. Also if this is an older building with existing windows that have the bottom sills you can match those by ripping a 2x4 with a 13 degree angle on one side, use one to mark for your bottom trim, make it wide enough for your side trim to sit on top of it.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I agree with both the above.

Sent from my XT1032

 

[stikman56]

Yeah, and even doing it this way without trim boards on the outside is possible as well. Depending on the look you're after.

 

[Kaizen]

Depending on the number of windows on the wall I'd remove the siding. the above method will work but as the siding is new it should come off easy enough. If you used ring shank nails do NOT try and remove the siding.

 

[chinaclipper]

Update to window. Well, here goes. And oh, BTW, the siding is neither cedar or vinyl, it is fiber cement. Sorry!
I think what tcianci said about putting the window in is what I am going to do; it seems to have a consensus, so it sounds right to me.

SIGH

It would have sure been easier to put the window in BEFORE they sided the shed....Live and learn.....

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yes, live and learn. We've all been there at one time. Generally, it's reasons like this is why guys ask that you post a picture when you ask questions like this.

 

[tcianci]

Wow, that siding changes every few minutes! In any event, the method I described still holds. If it indeed fiber cement, you're actually somewhat limited to using the method I described simply because once you try to remove fiber cement, it's generally ruined.

Don't be dissuaded by the warnings of sawing fiber cement siding. It's a messy, dusty process and will require you to use circular saw blade designed especially for fiber cement and you really need to use a dust mask. Sawing fiber cement creates a harmful dust that can lead to silicosis so, use the right equipment and protection.

An additional step you need to take when cutting fiber cement from the finished side, is to take a utility knife and score the siding along the line you drew when you hold the trim material against the window jamb. Carefully follow that line with the depth of your saw set to 3/4 of an inch. You need to observe the line so that you do not cause any tearout on the surface of the fiber cement. If you follow instructions and work carefully, you will be rewarded with a project that looks exactly the same as it would had it been installed during the initial construction.

We always tell out customers that a good remodeler is one you can never tell has been here.

 

[Kaizen]

think I'd get a 4inch concrete cutter for an angle grinder instead of using a circular saw. easier and safer. drill from inside at the 4 corners as instructed and use the angle grinder from the outside. cut it dry but use a facemask and respirator. lots of dust

 

[Kevin54]

If it were me, the way I would go about it would be to get a carbide blade for a circular saw. Make your marks and cut the siding. Use 1x4's to picture frame the window. Add some ice guard to your subsiding, mount the window, add flashing at the top of the window, add your 1x4's around the window, then caulk what needs to be caulked, crack open a cold one and call it a day.

 

[chinaclipper]

OK everyone thanks again for the advice. Here are some pictures first.

You can see what I am trying to do......It is a 24x 24" window. I tried to make the window centered from the outside......

BTW, Can I still use the sawsall from the inside to cut through the backing and fiber cement siding? Or do I need to use a specialty cutter and cut it from the outside?
I know it's just a stupid shed but I want to do it right, and maybe learn a few things too..

 

[volleyball]

Drill in the corners. this gives you a reference. Measure the window brickmold outside dimensions. mark that on the outside of the shed centering it. Leave a hair extra for the drip molding. Cut with proper blade in circular saw. Don't overcut.

 

[James-W]

How large is the shed? If it isn't very big you may find it advantageous to remove the siding, install the windows, then put on vinyl siding.

 

[chinaclipper]

How large is the shed? If it isn't very big you may find it advantageous to remove the siding, install the windows, then put on vinyl siding.

hehehe It's 10'x14', and brand new, so I don't want to replace the siding!

 

[speed bump]

Just because cement siding is such a pain to deal with I would be tempted to remove the brick molding and corner molding and work the loose siding near the top then remove the rest of it to below where you are installing the window. Not much extra work and everything goes together smoothly.

 

[kbs2244]

Those are short peices of sideing.
Just remove them, install the window,use the same skinny trim, then cut the siding to fit and reinstall.

 

[James-W]

hehehe It's 10'x14', and brand new, so I don't want to replace the siding!

For a building that small, I wouldn't hesitate to rip of the siding, install the windows and put on vinyl siding. Vinyl is easy to work with and you may be able to buy some discontinued vinyl siding in an acceptable color really cheap.

 

[volleyball]

Why reside an entire new shed for a little window? Even just doing that small section would mean having to get matching paint.

 

[bczygan]

This is an easy job.

Assuming you have framed out the correct rough openings for the windows you are installing, then use the correct methods above for marking and cutting the siding and removing it.

The next step is waterproofing the opening with a series of membranes.

Then install and shim the window level and plumb and fasten it to the rough opening with screws.

Then caulk the window frame to the siding and install interior trim, if needed..

 

[chinaclipper]

It's Finished!!

WHEW! I finally finished it. I figured about 6 hours, but probably fours hours of that was locating parts, tools, and supplies. (and trying to find stuff I already bought.. What a mess!) Thanks to a lot of good advice, I was able to complete the task, and in a fashion I hope will last a few years.

I drilled the holes in the siding as told.

THAT was a real pucker factor, hoping I had everything right, checking etc.
Before I made the cuts (gulp) I used some gorilla tape on the outside-I figured the tape would keep the fiber cement siding panels kind of together, maybe prevent nasty edges. I cut thru the backing, the siding, and the gorilla tape. It seemed to have worked.

BTW, I tried the saws-all to cut the hole-and the blades ALL dulled in about 6 inches of cutting, or less. I finally bought a composite blade for "abrasives" like brick, cement etc and it cut great...Albeit expensive. You can't see but I used the flashing that has the butyl rubber backing...



Then I shimmed, and temp'ed 'er in with two screws on upper right and lower left corner.. I traced a pattern based on a 1x4" molding, and then cut away the fiber cement siding with a HF tile/masonry cutter. I of course put up some 1x4's to use as a guide--slight problem, the depth of the saw only was 1.5 inches, that's about a 22/32" thick guide....Argh! So after I finished I had to go back and cheat a little freehand to cut all the way through. No worries! All but the top edge turned out great, and I smoothed that out with shop tools...

Afterwards, I siliconed the flanges of the window, replaced temp shims and screwed 'er in. Then more flashing around the flashings as per Jeld Wenn, then I did my best impression of a carpenter and made the miter window moldings.

Then I caulked the window, small gaps between the window and the molding. On the window-to-siding joining, I heard you can leave a slight gap for expansion, so I did, and caulked that gap too.

So it's done. All I need to do is paint (I have some extra lying around somewhere, the shed is only 9 months old....
It's not perfect, but it is done. Learned a few things, most notably,

1) If you want a window in a shed with fiber cement siding, put it in BEFORE the siding is installed. BTW, I could find NOTHING on YouTube about putting in a replacement window over a wall that has fiber cement siding. Trust me I looked...
2) It is good idea and saves lots of time if you have the right tools, and all the supplies BEFORE the job starts.
3) The people at Garage Forum are great. Thanks to all that helped, commented and advised.

 

[James-W]

Why reside an entire new shed for a little window? Even just doing that small section would mean having to get matching paint.

He didn't say he wanted to put in a little window. Here is what he said in his opening post.

After a long winter, I am looking forward to clearing out my garage and moving into my new shed! I will FINALLY get my garage back.....

The problem is this: I NOW want to put windows in the shed, but the shed already has (wooden) siding on it, running in a horizontal fashion.

I get how to put in a window, but what is confusing me is how to adapt for the siding.... I want to put in a few 14x21" windows, but how do I frame around the already installed siding?

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Since he wants to put in multiple windows I figured it would make more sense to rip off the siding he has, put in the windows and then put on vinyl siding. By doing it that way the siding would run right up to each window and there would be no need for caulking anything. But what he has is fine, and as long as he is happy with it, that is what counts. I just gave him my honest opinion about it, he is free to do as he wishes.

 

[volleyball]

I consider 14 x 21 to be a small window.

I don't see a drip cap over the top molding. The caulk will fail at some point and water will drip inside. Maybe not a big deal. It could still be inserted with only disturbing the top caulk joint.

 

[chinaclipper]

I consider 14 x 21 to be a small window.

I don't see a drip cap over the top molding. The caulk will fail at some point and water will drip inside. Maybe not a big deal. It could still be inserted with only disturbing the top caulk joint.

Drip cap? What is this you speak of? I have heard of it but I thought the window I used didn't need one....

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I would slide a drip cap under the siding directly over the molding. A couple of small nails thru the siding would hold it. That would direct most of the water away.

Sent from my XT1032

 

[volleyball]

The drip cap which is a Z shaped piece of plastic or metal will take the rain coming down the siding and push it out pass the window.

 

[chinaclipper]

The drip cap which is a Z shaped piece of plastic or metal will take the rain coming down the siding and push it out pass the window.

Pictures please? Now I AM confused. Do I put it over the molding? Or over the top of the vinyl window? And can I install it without having to tear up the frame?

 

[volleyball]

Here is an example. under the siding on top of the molding. You can slide it in if no screws or nails in the way.

 

[chinaclipper]

Here is an example. under the siding on top of the molding. You can slide it in if no screws or nails in the way.

I think I got it.. Thanks!

 

[tcianci]

Go back to my original instructions. I advised you to install the the drip cap under the siding and then install your window trim. You are correct in assuming that the type of window you installed doesn't need a flashing or drip cap, but the trim does. Now there's nothing but caulking to keep water from getting in behind the trim. Just remove your head casing, straighten out the cut line on the course of siding above the window, paint the disturbed siding and slip in a length of 3/4 inch drip cap and re-install the trim. Don't worry about nailing the drip cap, its totally captured and it's not going anywhere. Also, DO NOT caulk the joint between the drip cap and the siding, let it breathe or you will have paint failure in only a few months time. If you don't want to take my word for it, just go to the James Hardie website and review the instructions for applying their product. The instructions are pretty much the same for any fiber cement siding, no matter what brand.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

In this case, I think it would be easier and just as good if the dripcap is installed without removing anything. Just slide it up under the siding and let it sit on top of the already installed "trim board" A couple of small nails to hold it from sliding out. There is only about a 1/2"-3/4" of siding showing between the top trim board and the full piece of siding and some white aluminum "dripcap" will look just fine. Run the "dripcap" past the side trim by a couple inches on each side. That way the caulking isn't disturbed maybe creating further problems. Regardless of which way you do it, some "dripcap" is a good idea.

edit; the pic posted by volleyball is upside down.

Edit#2; I goofed and said "j" instead of the correct term dripcap.

 

[Zeke]

He heh, I would have used a flush fin window, made wedges to level the siding and been done in an hour. Z-bar works with those windows too.

 

[chinaclipper]

It's Finished!! Part Deaux

OK so here it is. With drip cap and painted.

I will redo the light green, it looks a bit lighter than the original, but I am thinking this MAY have been the primer the painter originally used....
Then, I will officially call this window project done.

 

[tcianci]

Close enough on the drip cap flashing. However the paint break on your colors is wrong. The sides of the casing are supposed to be painted to match the body of the building and only the face of the casing would be painted the trim color...no crazy cutting in against the rake of the siding. Look at other buildings around you.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Looks good for a newb.

Sent from my XT1032

 

[chinaclipper]

Looks good for a newb.

Sent from my XT1032

I shall take that as a compliment, and thanks....