Missing Sizes from Sets

[hancock1701]

Hi guys,

I've been wondering about one thing since I joined Garage Journal and started looking more into tools. Why do most hobbyist grade tool manufacturers skip only one or two sizes in their set? For example, the Gearwrench ratcheting set missing a 19mm, the HF Impact set missing a 16mm, the Craftsman 1/2 in socket set stops at 19mm, etc. Is it because of cost saving or is there another reason? Their prices are pretty affordable compared to professional tools and really cheap tools, so I don't think including those sizes would affect the prices so much that people won't consider those sets.

 

[PureLeaf]

Sometimes it depends on country of origin. You'll see european manufacturers or japanese skip sizes they never use, but they can be ones we use in the USA.

Many US sets for instance will skip 20mm, as its not often used.

I'm sure price points for a particular set come into play too. Sportsman's guide for instance sells sets of very nice Witte nut drivers at bargain prices, but the set excludes one of the most commons sizes (5/16).

 

[LordPsychon]

For hobbyists, the most common sizes are 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, and 18mm. You will find a few 11mm and 19mm from time to time. 16mm and 17mm are somewhat rare in my limited experience. 20mm is pretty hard to come by, can't think of a time I've needed it. Never had to use a 9mm either - great caliber, lousy wrench size.

 

[smiffy]

For hobbyists, the most common sizes are 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, and 18mm. You will find a few 11mm and 19mm from time to time. 16mm and 17mm are somewhat rare in my limited experience. 20mm is pretty hard to come by, can't think of a time I've needed it. Never had to use a 9mm either - great caliber, lousy wrench size.

I think thats a bit general
it entirely depends what you are working on i have used every size between 6 and 24 mm just depends what vehicles you have and what era they came from you would be suprised how much things around the world affect this for example alot of the britsh and American vehicles suddenly started using a variety of metric fastners after the second world war after they removed the machinery from German military factorys

 

[LordPsychon]

I think thats a bit general
it entirely depends what you are working on i have used every size between 6 and 24 mm just depends what vehicles you have and what era they came from you would be suprised how much things around the world affect this for example alot of the britsh and American vehicles suddenly started using a variety of metric fastners after the second world war after they removed the machinery from German military factorys

Ah, but I did say "most common sizes", not "available sizes". Yes it is a generality because you will find hobbyist sets with all including metric sizes (case in point - Dewalt wrenches go from 10-19mm without skips). Most hobbyist sets though will stick to more common sizes.

 

[n8n]

PureLeaf pretty much got it... see this thread for an explanation of why you really need every metric size, but if you only work on one car you probably will never use half of those sizes. The difference is that different countries used different standards, or different standards were used in the same country at different times; the main standards being DIN, JIS, and ISO (and to a lesser extent ANSI which is pretty much ISO.)

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249176

scroll to post #30 if you don't feel like reading the whole thread

e.g. I misspent my youth working on either old American cars or German cars with DIN fasteners. I don't know that I've ever used my 12mm socket or combo wrench, but for someone with a Japanese car that would have been one of the most commonly used sizes. In short, I would consider for a complete set you pretty much need every mm size 4mm to whatever your largest size will be (19mm for a starter set, 24mm??? for a "complete" set) plus 4.5 and 5.5 also for SAE starting at 1/4 through 11/32 need all sizes by 32nds then from there up (to 3/4"? for a starter kit, maybe 1-1/8" for a "complete" around the house/automotive set) by 16ths.

The funny thing about this whole scenario is that it was metric was supposed to simplify everything, but there far more metric sizes between 4mm and 24mm than there are fractional inch sizes between 1/4" and 15/16" (roughly approximate size ranges) unless you work on pre-WW2 stuff and need **/32" tools larger than 11/32".

Now to work on your average old German DIN car most work can be done with 8, 10, 13, 17, 19mm tools. But you still need all the in between sizes in case you need to work on a newer Euro car or a Japanese car.

Confused yet?

 

[n8n]

For hobbyists, the most common sizes are 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, and 18mm. You will find a few 11mm and 19mm from time to time. 16mm and 17mm are somewhat rare in my limited experience. 20mm is pretty hard to come by, can't think of a time I've needed it. Never had to use a 9mm either - great caliber, lousy wrench size.

see, you have worked on different cars than I have. Old DIN German stuff uses 8, 10, 13, 17, 19. I've rarely used 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18. New stuff uses some of those sizes as standard. This is why I said you need a set with all, no skips, unless you *know* you are only going to work on one piece of equipment ever.

9mm and 20mm are in fact rare sizes, but you might as well fill those holes because you really do need every other size.

 

[n8n]

Also, for special situations like stainless capped lug nuts I like having a one mm smaller than the actual nominal size socket in case I need to peel the cap off because it's spinning on the nut.

 

[LordPsychon]

see, you have worked on different cars than I have. Old DIN German stuff uses 8, 10, 13, 17, 19. I've rarely used 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18. New stuff uses some of those sizes as standard. This is why I said you need a set with all, no skips, unless you *know* you are only going to work on one piece of equipment ever.

9mm and 20mm are in fact rare sizes, but you might as well fill those holes because you really do need every other size.

Oh I've definitely worked on different cars...mainly because I haven't except for my Elantra.

 

[hancock1701]

I've only had HF tools until before I joined GJ. And I've only worked on Honda, Porsche, and BMW, all 2000 or newer. I don't have 16mm impact from the HF set for my Porsche's skid plate nuts, don't have a 24mm socket or wrench for the serpentine tensioner, don't have a 9mm for the BMW's brake bleeder valves. My question is, wouldn't including those sizes attract more buyers like me, because their price points are still way below Pro brands?

 

[Jure]

For hobbyists, the most common sizes are 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, and 18mm. You will find a few 11mm and 19mm from time to time. 16mm and 17mm are somewhat rare in my limited experience. 20mm is pretty hard to come by, can't think of a time I've needed it. Never had to use a 9mm either - great caliber, lousy wrench size.

10,13 and 17 are my most used sizes

 

[joel63]

PureLeaf pretty much got it... see this thread for an explanation of why you really need every metric size, but if you only work on one car you probably will never use half of those sizes. The difference is that different countries used different standards, or different standards were used in the same country at different times; the main standards being DIN, JIS, and ISO (and to a lesser extent ANSI which is pretty much ISO.)

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249176

scroll to post #30 if you don't feel like reading the whole thread

e.g. I misspent my youth working on either old American cars or German cars with DIN fasteners. I don't know that I've ever used my 12mm socket or combo wrench, but for someone with a Japanese car that would have been one of the most commonly used sizes. In short, I would consider for a complete set you pretty much need every mm size 4mm to whatever your largest size will be (19mm for a starter set, 24mm??? for a "complete" set) plus 4.5 and 5.5 also for SAE starting at 1/4 through 11/32 need all sizes by 32nds then from there up (to 3/4"? for a starter kit, maybe 1-1/8" for a "complete" around the house/automotive set) by 16ths.

The funny thing about this whole scenario is that it was metric was supposed to simplify everything, but there far more metric sizes between 4mm and 24mm than there are fractional inch sizes between 1/4" and 15/16" (roughly approximate size ranges) unless you work on pre-WW2 stuff and need **/32" tools larger than 11/32".

Now to work on your average old German DIN car most work can be done with 8, 10, 13, 17, 19mm tools. But you still need all the in between sizes in case you need to work on a newer Euro car or a Japanese car.

Confused yet?

I get it now, but I'm still confused.

Seriously, I have all the sizes in metric 4 through 24. But I just can't seem to get a 23. Maybe someday I 'll run across it and then I'll need to get one.

 

[hancock1701]

Another example that annoys me very much is that I'm looking for a more complete 1/2 in metric impact set. I really like the Tekton sets because of their prices, but one skips 16mm and has 32mm for my axle nut, the other doesn't skip 16 but only goes to 24mm. So now I kinda need to buy the Sunex or GP set to get everything up to 36mm.

 

[n8n]

I've only had HF tools until before I joined GJ. And I've only worked on Honda, Porsche, and BMW, all 2000 or newer. I don't have 16mm impact from the HF set for my Porsche's skid plate nuts, don't have a 24mm socket or wrench for the serpentine tensioner, don't have a 9mm for the BMW's brake bleeder valves. My question is, wouldn't including those sizes attract more buyers like me, because their price points are still way below Pro brands?

You would think, or at least they should have an open stock rack like CarQuest or Sears to let you fill in the missing pieces as you needed them. (and actually stock said rack, unlike Sears.)

Unfortunately they don't listen to the likes of us, which is why the only HF tools currently in my "user" set are the SAE impact sockets because they don't skip sizes. I went with used Snap-On for metric for just this reason.

Most of my chrome sockets are Craftsman bought back when I graduated college or else SK or Snap-On bought used, so I don't have skips there. My combo wrenches are SK and I've filled in the skips with singles ordered from HJE. My ratcheting combos are old Gearwrench that didn't have skips in the set (flat, non-reversible.)

I have had to purchase new triple squares recently because the four piece set that I bought maybe 15 years ago does not cover all sizes used today. I have also had to purchase hex bit sockets in "odd" sizes (specifically 7mm and 9mm off the top of my head) for specific jobs, as well as Torx sockets outside the SK "master torx set" which I erroneously thought would cover all of my Torx turning needs...

 

[Askme42]

I've only had HF tools until before I joined GJ. And I've only worked on Honda, Porsche, and BMW, all 2000 or newer. I don't have 16mm impact from the HF set for my Porsche's skid plate nuts, don't have a 24mm socket or wrench for the serpentine tensioner, don't have a 9mm for the BMW's brake bleeder valves. My question is, wouldn't including those sizes attract more buyers like me, because their price points are still way below Pro brands?

Dewalt set doesn't skip sizes. Sk doesn't either or gearwrench I believe.

 

[evildky]

I'm an import guy Nissan, Toyota and Honda use mostly 10,12,14,17,19. When dealing with Ford, Mazda and GM I gotta dig out the 13mm, and on Gm I gotta find 15mm, GM loves to use 15.

 

[sberry]

Sears makes 2 sets, a master set that is larger. In 1/2 drive the deeps are 1 1/8 and shallow 1 1/4

 

[Rico.]

I'm one of those better to have it and not need it type of chaps.. and my socket sets
go from 4mm to 36mm with no skips. I have had to add some single sockets to fill in
my sets, for example my Facom 3/8" set didn't have a 20, 23 or 24mm so I just bought
those three to round it out.

I've had Japanese and currently an old German car, my family has British, French and
Italian cars.... and I've done allot of different work on them over the years.

5mm, 9mm, 11mm, 15mm, 20mm, 23mm, 25mm, 26mm, 28mm, 29mm, 31mm,
33mm and 35mm I have never used on any of them, but we're only talking about
a dozen oddball sockets, so it's not really a major financial outlay to keep them just
in case.

I know in the USA 15mm is used a fair bit... Definitely the real oddball in the metric lineup
has got to be the 20mm, I think what makes that particular size so interesting is the fact
that you can find 17, 18, 19, 21 and 22mm fasteners all over the place, but with the
rare exception of GM fuel filters, the poor old 20mm has been banished.. Interesting.

Of course being me I have Six 20mm sockets.. shallow & deep in 3/8" & 1/2" & Impact

Anyway, to the OP... As it's pretty hard to find total complete sets I would just go with
a brand that makes all the sizes and fits your budget and quality requirements, then fill
in the gaps with singles from that brand. You'll only need a few sockets and you'll have
an everything matching set with no gaps.

 

[Tim37]

Find a set with 1 3/16"

Yeah I use that size and have a set of Marco wrenches proto deep sockets and Cornwell shallow sockets with no 1 3/16

 

[n8n]

just curious, what do you use 1-3/16" for? I have 'em (actually have shallows up to 2" in 3/4" drive) but don't remember ever needing that size. I think a water heater anode is a 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" and that's the largest that I've actually needed.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

I inherited a Snap-On 1/2" drive 12 pt deep well set with every 1/16" increment from 3/8" to 1-1/2". I hate to even think about how many hours my dad had to put in to pay for them.

 

[Sal Bandini]

I've only had HF tools until before I joined GJ. And I've only worked on Honda, Porsche, and BMW, all 2000 or newer. I don't have 16mm impact from the HF set for my Porsche's skid plate nuts, don't have a 24mm socket or wrench for the serpentine tensioner, don't have a 9mm for the BMW's brake bleeder valves. My question is, wouldn't including those sizes attract more buyers like me, because their price points are still way below Pro brands?

I doubt HF is targeting the Porsche or BMW driver.

 

[Strouty]

I saw a snap on set that had a large ½ mm size. I think it was 26.5 mm? It was definitely military, not sure the use.

 

[hancock1701]

I doubt HF is targeting the Porsche or BMW driver.

It'd be nice if they had individual loose sockets or wrenches for sale. I was surprised Home Depot had individual wrenches when I needed a 24mm.

 

[Sal Bandini]

It'd be nice if they had individual loose sockets or wrenches for sale. I was surprised Home Depot had individual wrenches when I needed a 24mm.

I agree but I can always fill in with other brands.

 

[LordPsychon]

It'd be nice if they had individual loose sockets or wrenches for sale. I was surprised Home Depot had individual wrenches when I needed a 24mm.

My HF has some loose impact sockets to purchase but no chromies for my homies.

 

[oldldh]

GearWrench---

#80314D---1/4" drive---5/32" thru 9/16" Shallow and 3/16" thru 9/16" Deep-----and-----4mm thru 15mm Shallow and 4mm thru 15mm Deep---47 pc socket set...

#80718----3/8" drive---1/4" thru 1" Shallow and 1/4" thru 1" Deep-----and-----6mm thru 22mm and 6mm thru 22mm and a 24mm and 5/8" and 13/16" Spark Plug socket---63 pc socket set

#80729----1/2" drive---7/16" thru 1 1/2" Shallow and Deep---27 pc socket set

#80730----1/2" drive---9mm thru 30mm and 32mm and 36mm Shallow---14mm thru 24mm and 27mm and 30mm and 32mm Deep---37 pc socket set

The mostest for the leastest!!!

And they come in blow molded trays!!!

Photos are mine...

I also have a 3/4" Drive set from Harbor Freight for the really big stuff....I think I paid $ 55.00 for the set...(GearWrench 3/4" drive set #80880 is around $300.00---too much for this old, retired, poor DIY'er...)

The listed and pictured sets are the biggest bang for the buck I've been able to find...

I got mine from www.tooldiscounter.com ...

The GearWrench catalog has a huge number single sockets...

 

[crbnfbr]

Then for example there's 1 1/16" which comes out to 1.0625" and 27mm which equates to 1.0629, essentially the same size, I have adjustable camber and toe links on my rear suspension that said were 27mm nuts, but I found that my 1 1/16" wrench fit better than my 27mm. I'm sure there's other examples where metric and Imperial come pretty close but probably not as close as 4/10,000".

 

[honcho]

At least for sets from Sears, metric sets often skipped 11mm, 16mm and 19mm because..... fractional sizes.7/16 works on 11mm, 5/8 for 16mm, and 3/4 for 19mm.

I also have an older Snap-On socket that is marked both 3/4 and 19mm