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caulking at control joints

Joined
May 17, 2009
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12
Hey guys,
New to the forum but want to say this is a great site with lots of great info.I recently built a garage and am getting ready to epoxy the concrete with Sherman Williams Armorseal.What cauking seems to be holding up the best at the control joints? I cut the slab into roughly 10' sections to prevent cracks so there is alot of caulking in my future.If you have any advise it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
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5wndwcpe

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Welcome to the forum. I was going to use backer rod and caulk but the mason who poured my slab said they just used playsand, which, in the end, I used as it was cheap and easy. I sealed my floor with ArmorSeal as well. After filling the gaps with sand, I used a turkey baster and dribbled the sealer over the sand to lock it in. Two coats over the cracks with the TB and then I rolled the floor per the instructions. Came out well, if I do say so myself.
 

AlphaGarage

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Every Garage, AnyTown, USA
The "doped" sand fill will work with the cautionary note that it may fail should the expansion joints be called on to perform their duty. When there's relative movement between the slabs you'll want a filler that can compress or expand to accommodate the shifting.
 
OP
R
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May 17, 2009
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12
Thanks for the info.I will probably be going with backer rod and a polyurethane caulk due to the large temperature changes here in Florida.I usually use (Vulkem) but don't know if it is the right product for this application.Should I epoxy the floor and then caulk or vice versa? The garage is 40 x 32 so I definiteley got to get it right the first time.I will post up pics when I get finished.Thanks
 

5wndwcpe

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The "doped" sand fill will work with the cautionary note that it may fail should the expansion joints be called on to perform their duty. When there's relative movement between the slabs you'll want a filler that can compress or expand to accommodate the shifting.

Fred, I think he's talking about control joints not expansion joints. There shouldn't be any movement as it's a 1" cut on a 4-5" slab.
 
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AlphaGarage

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My mistake in terminology, he did say, and describe, control joints as opposed to expansion joints, but the advice is still valid. Control joints, whether formed during the pour, or saw cut later, are placed to provide a weak area on the surface of the pad in order to control cracks that result from shrinkage, or (less common) expansion.

As the concrete cures it shrinks, if it shrinks past a certain point there will be cracks, hopefully those cracks will form along the cut line. If the cut is filled with sand a void will develop, since sand doesn't have any elasticity. If the void is large enough, the overlying coating may crack.

Filling the crack with material that does have elasticity, and continues to adhere to the sides of the crack, will lessen the possibility of a crack developing on the surface coating.

There is also the possibility that the concrete expands, due largely to temperature shifts. In which case the sand may be squeezed up and out of the groove, again potentially cracking the surface coating. A filler that remains flexible can absorb some of that displacement, minimizing the chance of a crack in the coating.

Various seismic forces (settling, earthquakes, etc) can also cause slab movement leading to cracks, and again joints can help isolate those cracks, and a flexible filler in the crack can minimze the chances of cracks in overlying coatings.

If the joint is large, say over 1/4", it's prudent to "v notch" it before applying any filler. The notch helps spread material over a larger area, minimizing surface distortion...

GJ-vnotch.jpg


If the crack or joint is deep, you can save on the filler by using "backer rod" jammed into the void, then topping with the flexible filler material...

GJ-backer.jpg


Note that with a "flexible filler" the flexibility is relative, it'[s not flexible like a stick of gum. For example Wolverine Coatings IntegraFlex 1921 cures to a pretty hard state, although it does remain somewhat flexible and will elongate up to 50%. So you can drive over it, pull your engine hoist over it, but it will adhere to the sides of the cut/crack and expand and contract absorbing the energy and displacement, lessening the possibility of cracks developing on the coating.
 
Joined
May 23, 2009
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Location
New Jersey
Good points Fred & excellent illustrations. My flex material of choice in areas where movement is expected is polyurea. Its a pain to work with dries wicked fast but has great flex and more importantly compression characteristics. There are two part tubes avail at Sherwin Williams but be sure to practice on an less important area first and get extra mixing tubes.
Finally I like to bridge gaps further distributing the area of stretch/compression with fiberglass reinforcing tape.
PDF link:
http://www.dur-a-flex.com/documents/expan jnt pot mvmt.pdf

Now you have seamless floor + control joints working as they should under the epoxy.
 
OP
R
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May 17, 2009
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Thanks again for the great info.Fred your illustrations were awesome.I wrote Sikaflex and hopefully they will give me some info on their product.Also I will talk with Sherman Williams about polyurea.I poured my slab 5" thick and used pencil rod wire so I don't think I will have too much movement if any at all.So far there are no cracks in my slab,other than in the control joints,where they should stay.I just don't want to use a product that is not compatable with a solvent based epoxy that will cause a headache down the road.Thanks again.
 
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