want to add several 220 v outlets - advice?

[DanielVetpath]

Guys - I currently have one 220v outlet (from 200 amp box in shop) on a single circuit. I use it for my welder and belt grinder, but am tired of plugging and unplugging when I change in the middle of project. Any advice for adding a small group of 220 outlets? Neat, safe and work efficient. Run a subpanel from one circuit and several 220 outlets from that? I don't anticipate running more than one machine at a time. Thanks for any advice. Daniel

 

[crusher13]

Just add an outlet on the same circuit. If you don't run more than one at a time there is no reason to run a second high amperage circuit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slodat]

I run a string of duplex 20a 250v (NEMA 6-20R) outlets fed from 10ga wire on a 30a breaker. None of my tools pull 20 full load amps. I rarely run more than one at a time anyway. Every machine stays plugged in.

 

[Cmreschke]

Bad idea with the outlets on a 30 amp circuit, as it is a code violation.

 

[slodat]

Please cite the section of the NEC this is not in compliance with. Licensed Master Electrician disagrees. I see you are also a master electrician This is the same as multiple 15A 125v outlets on a 20a breaker.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Please cite the section of the NEC this is not in compliance with. Licensed Master Electrician disagrees. I see you are also a master electrician This is the same as multiple 15A 125v outlets on a 20a breaker.

Sorry, your Licensed Master Electrician is wrong

Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits

Circuit Rating.......................Receptacle Rating
(Amperes)

15 .....................................Not over 15

20..................................... 15 or 20

30..................................... 30

40......................................40 or 50

50......................................50

 

[slodat]

Thank you! I'll send this to my electrician!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sorry, your Licensed Master Electrician is wrong

Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits

Circuit Rating.......................Receptacle Rating
(Amperes)

15 .....................................Not over 15

20..................................... 15 or 20

30..................................... 30

40......................................40 or 50

50......................................50

Umm thats a typo! There is no 40a rated NEMA receptacle. For a 40a circuit u would use a 50a rated receptacle...

 

[alfredeneuman]

Umm thats a typo! There is no 40a rated NEMA receptacle. For a 40a circuit u would use a 50a rated receptacle...

It's a cut and paste taken directly from the 2011 NEC .pdf It's definitely not a typo.

They're probably just keeping their bases covered should a 40A receptacle magically appear from somewhere .

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Umm thats a typo! There is no 40a rated NEMA receptacle. For a 40a circuit u would use a 50a rated receptacle...

Alfredenewman is correct, right out of the code.

The quirk of 15 and 20 amp allowed on a 20 amp circuit (except for a single receptacle) explains why you find receptacles with T slots capable of accepting both 15 and 20 amp plugs on equipment.

 

[Norcal]

Master electrician must have got his lic. off Craigslist.

 

[Norcal]

It's a cut and paste taken directly from the 2011 NEC .pdf It's definitely not a typo.

They're probably just keeping their bases covered should a 40A receptacle magically appear from somewhere .

It's the same in the 2014.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The quirk of 15 and 20 amp allowed on a 20 amp circuit (except for a single receptacle) explains why you find receptacles with T slots capable of accepting both 15 and 20 amp plugs on equipment.

I installed 20A 120V receptacles in my son's garage on a 20A circuit. He want to know what the strange outlets were for.

I can say have only once seen a 120V 20A power cord and it was on a computer server.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's a cut and paste taken directly from the 2011 NEC .pdf It's definitely not a typo.

They're probably just keeping their bases covered should a 40A receptacle magically appear from somewhere .

I shouldve grabbed my book before i opened my fat mouth!

Everything i work on is hardwired so rarely if ever work with receptacles...

I installed 20A 120V receptacles in my son's garage on a 20A circuit. He want to know what the strange outlets were for.

I can say have only once seen a 120V 20A power cord and it was on a computer server.

Ive seen several things with 5-20p on the cord. A wood plainer and frozen food vending machines!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Master electrician must have got his lic. off Craigslist.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I shouldve grabbed my book before i opened my fat mouth!

Everything i work on is hardwired so rarely if ever work with receptacles...



Ive seen several things with 5-20p on the cord. A wood plainer and frozen food vending machines!

Whats a wood plainer?Is pine plainer than oak?I think its a wood planer.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I run a string of duplex 20a 250v (NEMA 6-20R) outlets fed from 10ga wire on a 30a breaker. None of my tools pull 20 full load amps. I rarely run more than one at a time anyway. Every machine stays plugged in.

Here is the actual table from the NEC.
Also, why the #10? Is it a long run form the panel?

 

[alfredeneuman]

There are 2 tables that give this info.

I just chose 210.21(B)(3) because the subject in question was 20A recps on a 30 A circuit, not all that extra info in 210.24

 

[Speedy Petey]

There are 2 tables that give this info.

I just chose 210.21(B)(3) because the subject in question was 20A recps on a 30 A circuit, not all that extra info in 210.24

OK.

 

[sbosecker]

OK.

So, just to be clear:

The code issue with the OP's proposal was the use of a 20-amp receptacle(s) on a 30-amp circuit, not necessarily the use of multiple receptacles on a 220 volt circuit?


Best regards,

Scott

 

[alfredeneuman]

So, just to be clear:

The code issue with the OP's proposal was the use of a 20-amp receptacle(s) on a 30-amp circuit, not necessarily the use of multiple receptacles on a 220 volt circuit?

Yes, I know that The OP asked nothing of the sort.

There's nothing in the Code that prohibits the use of multiple receptacle on a 20 Amp circuit.

The NEC allows multiple receptacles on a circuit of any amperage.
The IRC prohibits the use of multiple receptacles to any circuits larger than 20 Amps

 

[acer66]

Master electrician must have got his lic. off Craigslist.

Do you have a link by any chance?

 

[slodat]

Master electrician must have got his lic. off Craigslist.

No need to be disrespectful to someone you don't know. I'm an IBEW journeyman relay technician (Foreman I) and I work with a large crew of linemen, electricians and high voltage wiremen. I asked the electrical supervisor (Washington state licensed master electrician) about running multiple 20a receptacles on a 30a branch circuit and off the top of his head he said yes I could do it.

I appreciate the guys that cited the NEC. Thank you.

 

[sbosecker]

Yes, I know that The OP asked nothing of the sort.

There's nothing in the Code that prohibits the use of multiple receptacle on a 20 Amp circuit.

The NEC allows multiple receptacles on a circuit of any amperage.
The IRC prohibits the use of multiple receptacles to any circuits larger than 20 Amps

AlfredENeuman,

Oh goodie...

2 codes.

How does one know what holds sway in one's own situation?

I'm not an electrician so I am just trying to learn something from this thread.

I thought when the OP posted, "...Any advice for adding a small group of 220 outlets?" , that he was asking about multiple outlets on a single circuit. If that isn't what he was asking about, I apologize.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[slodat]

Scott, he can have multiple 20a outlets on a 20a circuit.

 

[Norcal]

No need to be disrespectful to someone you don't know. I'm an IBEW journeyman relay technician (Foreman I) and I work with a large crew of linemen, electricians and high voltage wiremen. I asked the electrical supervisor (Washington state licensed master electrician) about running multiple 20a receptacles on a 30a branch circuit and off the top of his head he said yes I could do it.

I appreciate the guys that cited the NEC. Thank you.

A supposed "master electrician" saying that 20A receptacles are OK on a 30A circuit & I am supposed to be "respectful" ? That person needs his lic. suspended & go back to being a apprentice, respect is earned & someone holding a lic. saying a major code violation is OK does not warrant respect.

 

[slodat]

A supposed "master electrician" saying that 20A receptacles are OK on a 30A circuit & I am supposed to be "respectful" ? That person needs his lic. suspended & go back to being a apprentice, respect is earned & someone holding a lic. saying a major code violation is OK does not warrant respect.

Ok internet tough guy.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Whats a wood plainer?Is pine plainer than oak?I think its a wood planer.

Typo! LMAO Damn iPhone!

Ok internet tough guy.

Slodt- youre either NOT paying attention or you really dont know the code.

Yes it is a code violation to put 20a receptacles on a 30a circuit!

And Norcal is no arm chair internet tough guy electrician.

But thats ok. Keep making a fool of yourself! wned:

And the state licensed master electrician u talked to needs to go back and read his code book since he clearly contradicted the code!

 

[slodat]

My point is nothing is gained by being a ****.

 

[pattenp]

AlfredENeuman,

Oh goodie...

2 codes.

How does one know what holds sway in one's own situation?

I'm not an electrician so I am just trying to learn something from this thread.

I thought when the OP posted, "...Any advice for adding a small group of 220 outlets?" , that he was asking about multiple outlets on a single circuit. If that isn't what he was asking about, I apologize.

Best regards,

Scott

The NEC does not stipulate that multiple outlets greater than 20A on a single circuit is not allowed, it is silent to that fact. But if your locality has adopted the International Residential Building Code and it's a residential use then multiple 30A outlets on a single circuit is not allowed.

 

[alfredeneuman]

My point is nothing is gained by being a ****.

If the Licensed Master Electrician, didn't know the answer FOR SURE, he just should have said he didn't know.
I guess he's the **** by giving you worthless info.

 

[slodat]

Did you even read what I wrote above or are you just enjoying being rude?

What a bunch of jerks.

 

[Crizzle]

I installed 20A 120V receptacles in my son's garage on a 20A circuit. He want to know what the strange outlets were for.

I can say have only once seen a 120V 20A power cord and it was on a computer server.

I installed 20A circuits for my UPS and equipment rack (Servers and Network switches) in the basement. That's what I use mine for.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Did you even read what I wrote above or are you just enjoying being rude?

Yes, I've read it thoroughly 3 times. I don't really enjoy being rude at all.

When you tell him he's wrong, be SURE to tell him that a Licensed (there is no Masters rating in CA) Electrical Contractor called him a Craigslist Electrician, OK?

 

[Speedy Petey]

A supposed "master electrician" saying that 20A receptacles are OK on a 30A circuit & I am supposed to be "respectful" ? That person needs his lic. suspended & go back to being a apprentice, respect is earned & someone holding a lic. saying a major code violation is OK does not warrant respect.

I FULLY agree. Respect is earned, not something that is owed automatically by a title.

slodat, also, this is the internet. If you are bothered by a little harmless banter then you might want to think about laying off message boards. This place is on the lighter side compared to most.
Jerks? Rude? Dicks? Are you in the same thread as us???
I know I am being a bit dickish here, but your skin is thinner than a dollar store balloon.