Protect those posts!

[nterry1957]

After weeks of getting bids and doing research... I am leaning toward post frame construction. I can get ALOT more square footage with post frame opposed to stick frame construction for my budget.

My only concern is doing my best to protect the posts in the ground from rot.

What can I do?

Thanks in advance!

 

[James-W]

Can you get posts treated with creosote?

 

[gungatim]

around my way we use pressure treated posts. while they are in the ground below frost level, they sit on a cement disc and are just backfilled with sand/gravel so the water drains. I was told by my builder that is how it is done, not to fill with cement as that will hold the water and will cause premature rot.

other ways I have seen are cement posts with simpson anchors with the poles sitting on top, but that is for additions and things, not sure if you can actually build a pole barn that way as you likely don't get the lateral support.

 

[dfiler2]

That really depends on your ground conditions and other variables. Wood kept completely dry will not usually rot, wood kept under water, will not rot. I would get as much input from local people as you can. I'll bet there have been a few pole buildings put up in your area.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Talk to the pole building companies in your area about it. I just looked up one in the Minnesota area; they use treated posts and have a 50 year warrantee against rot or insect damage.

 

[nterry1957]

James..

Not sure if I can get creosote but that's a good idea.

 

[Cougar]

What kind of floor will it have.

 

[Highbeam]

I have a pole barn and worry that someday the poles will rot. We are required to backfill with concrete here as well as a poured concrete footing underneath with bar.

If the poles only last 30 years that should be plenty.

 

[Voi]

There are also perma columns but that may eat into your budget more than you like. If you're getting a bid from Morton they have their own version.

Asking around to see how post frame construction holds up in your area/soils is a good idea but keep in mind the longer lasting pole barns will have likely been treated with a different pressure treatment than what is available now. I can't remember when the change in chemicals came about but I'd look it up and see if you can ask about pole barns built shortly after that time.

If the perma columns are out of your budget get bids for both laminated and solid columns. The laminated columns are stronger and also each individual board is treated so the preservatives get further into the center of each board than they would in a solid column.

I should also mention post sleeves but I don't know much about them other than many think this is another way to trap water against the post.

 

[James-W]

Maybe you could get some of those cardboard tubes, dig holes in the ground, insert the tubes into the holes so they stick out of the ground about 6 inches, then pour concrete into the tubes. Then, using metal brackets, attach the posts to the top of the concrete. That way the posts won't rot in the ground. It's just a thought but it may work out for you.

 

[nterry1957]

Lots of good thoughts...

Cougar, it will have a 4" cement floor.

 

[kj_mustang]

Posts rot at the ground surface not underground. Wood rot requires oxygen and water. Keep water off the posts and they don't rot.

 

[Cougar]

Lots of good thoughts...

Cougar, it will have a 4" cement floor.

Have you looked at building on the slab.
Mine has wet set brackets anchored in the slab, works great.

 

[383 240z]

Im putting up a new pole barn at our place for my wife's goats and donkey.

This time around I'm doing 6x6 PT posts, set in an 20" hole 4' in the ground. 4" of concrete in the hole as a base, back filled with 2B gravel. 32x20 dirt floor for most of it, raised wood where I plan to store the hay, single story 10" walls

No my shop is a 32x40 pole barn. 8' walls. Pretty sure the posts are just driven into the ground. It was here when we bought the farm. I poured a 6" concrete floor over 6" or gravel, just poured it right up against the posts. The barn was 30 years old when I got it, I've had it 10 years. I had to dig a trench for a french drain last summer, I did find some rot at ground level, I could push an ice pick into the wood about 3/8" and yes I was really trying. The deeper I dug the less rot I found. I'm pretty sure my shop will be standing when I shuffle off my mortal coil. and I'm only 42. Keith

 

[nterry1957]

Have you looked at building on the slab.
Mine has wet set brackets anchored in the slab, works great.

I'm sort of ignorant of these techniques so I'm not sure how that would work. Would the pad need a footing?

 

[Jamie V]

My OCD has me worried about that as well. When I had my pole barn built they put the concrete "pill" in the bottom of the hole and back filled. After the building was up I poured up to the top of the pressure treated 2x6 that wrapped around the bottom of the posts (so the concrete pad is 5-1/2" thick). I then framed 2x4 walls between all the 4x6 posts so technically if the post rotted or sank the 2x4 walls that are attached to the posts will hold the post up by sitting on the concrete. I'm going to pour a 24" concrete skirt all around the barn so water can't get to the outside of those posts also.

Not sure if any of this will help or matter but that's what I did.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a pole barn and worry that someday the poles will rot. We are required to backfill with concrete here as well as a poured concrete footing underneath with bar.

Perma-columns or pour a pier and mount the post to the top with the appropriate bracket.

 

[theoldwizard1]

around my way we use pressure treated posts. while they are in the ground below frost level, they sit on a cement disc and are just backfilled with sand/gravel so the water drains.

A good alternative.

 

[Cougar]

I'm sort of ignorant of these techniques so I'm not sure how that would work. Would the pad need a footing?

Mine has a grade beam.

 

[saltygills]

My posts were set with "post protectors" thick plastic that surrounds the posts going into the ground. Look them up

 

[rieferman]

Perma columns are a great product and should only add a couple hundred per post max.

 

[yaidunno]

I'm having a pole structure put up using the anchor method. The slab has a 12x12" footing around the perimeter. Its a fairly common building method around here. The corners of the building are triangulated to gain rigidity that would otherwise come from the pole being in the ground.

 

[Cougar]

I'm having a pole structure put up using the anchor method. The slab has a 12x12" footing around the perimeter. Its a fairly common building method around here. The corners of the building are triangulated to gain rigidity that would otherwise come from the pole being in the ground.

Who is building yours.

 

[MagKarl]

Spend a little extra and get overhangs on your building, and make sure the grade runs away. Perma-columns look good but will eat up the pole barn savings, they were about $100 each when I looked.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Spend a little extra and get overhangs on your building, and make sure the grade runs away.

Good INEXPENSIVE advice, especially the grading. Jf you are not doing a slab, 4-6" of well compacted gravel on the inside will make a big difference.

 

[Kaizen]

After weeks of getting bids and doing research... I am leaning toward post frame construction. I can get ALOT more square footage with post frame opposed to stick frame construction for my budget.

My only concern is doing my best to protect the posts in the ground from rot.

What can I do?

Thanks in advance!

can you post what you found for price vs square footage? is this you building or having it all done?

 

[hoppsxc140]

Perma columns were an extra $150 per post from my builder. My parents barn is over 115 years old with untreated timbers in the ground and is still standing fine. I just went with laminated posts and full depth concrete.

 

[yaidunno]

Who is building yours.

Its a Wick building that's being put up by Red Bowe construction.

 

[nterry1957]

can you post what you found for price vs square footage? is this you building or having it all done?

I have a bid from a local pole barn company for $13,800 for. 30X50 complete with doors. That's everything BUT dirt work to level the site.

After more consideration I am torn between going that route or building a 40X40 myself with repurposed steel chicken house trusses. I think I can do it for around $11k.