Help...broken bolt, need a very small die grimder

[rsanter]

Helping a friend with his sons car. It is a 1966 thunderbird with the 390 in it.
They broke an exhaust manifold bolt off when taking the manifold,off to fix an exhaust leak.
Bolt is rented in and broken off flush.
There is not much more room than an inch between the head exhaust surface and an obstacle.
There is no room to weld in there and the bolt is broken flush or slightly below surface so the weld a nut on trick is a no go

What I need a a right angle die grinder that is very small like a dental drill. However it cannot cost a fortune or then we might as well pull the engine.

Anyone have an answer or a lead. Anyone have one we can borrow?

Bob

 

[hickfied]

What position is the bolt on the head? Some 390's had 8, 12, and 16 manifold bolts per head. on the 12 and 16, some are not needed(you really only need the upper and lower). With some header installs, it is impossible to get all 12 or 16 in.

Wish I could help more, but my head was off when I broke one. welder fixed it pretty quick.

Would enough access be gained by unbolting the engine mounts and fan or shroud, and lifting the engine a couple inches?

 

[Stuart in MN]

I broke a couple exhaust manifold bolts on a 352 FE engine once. I ended up pulling the head, so I could put it on the workbench and properly work on it. It's extra work, but in the end it will be a lot easier.

 

[Skin]

Its been my experience if you factor in all the time you waste trying to make something work you could of just removed the mounts and rolled the engine or pulled it and did it properly. Plus you don't want to drill off center and puncture a water jacket.

That said you named your best bet, high quality dental drill and a carbide bit.

 

[rsanter]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.
The heads are the very basic 8 bolt heads, top and bottom and that is where the stock manifolds attach to.

The owners son is 15 and trying to do most himself with some help. I a, trying to help and guide them.
Money is limited, time is limited.

I have already suggested pulling the engine and opening for an inspection. That did not go over the best.

Bob

 

[Retrosmith]

Would a Dremel or dremel knock off with a flexible shaft work? Dremel does make right angle attachment but not exactly small form factor.

 

[PJNJ]

Why do you have to pull the whole engine out? I agree fix it on the bench. You'll spend (really waste) way more time and money trying to do it with the head on the engine. It's a '66 T-bird. Carbed with probably 10% of the wiring and garbage on today's engines. Pull the intake and the head. Only cost intake manifold gaskets and head gasket. Order from Summit - did quick search probably cost about $40 or less plus shipping. I don't think you'll find a working dentist drill and bits for that price.

There's low budget and then there's no budget. If he has no money then an old car that needs work is definitely not for him.

Good luck in either case.

 

[Skin]

I have already suggested pulling the engine and opening for an inspection. That did not go over the best.

Bob

If they don't want to fix it proper im sure they'll employ copious amounts of RTV or JB Weld.

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

Why do you have to pull the whole engine out?

.

He suggested pulling the motor for inspection, not for repair of the broken bolt. But A 1966 with who knows how many miles, or the last oil change, or the service history, I would suggest pulling the motor and inspecting too. You never know.

 

[Tim37]

I would pop the heads off. The get the bolt hot and use a extractor.

If they haven't been built the heads probably need a set of valve seats for unleaded anyway.

 

[gungatim]

there was a guy on here or the corvette forum, forget which, but he used an air powered high speed dental drill to carve out a bolt from aluminum casting that broke off flush. I think he said you can get them fairly inexpensive on amazon, and he literally carved the thing outta there without touching the threads...do a search

 

[twertsy]

I'm jumping on the "pull the head" bandwagon. Soooooo much easier than trying to drill / grind a straight pocket, at an awkward angle, in tight space, where you can't see. No thanks!

 

[rsanter]

Let's backup here.
I have already suggested pulling the engine and offered that they can use my cherry picker.
I vote pull the engine verses just pull the heads because the heads and intake are heavy and that is a long way over those fenders. Pull the engine and it's easier to deal with and then you get to inspect the engine too......

But the help I need is finding the dental drill type die grinder as I have had no luck. I looked on HF and Amazon. Just wondering if I am not using the correct key words or something.
I can find straight pencil grinders for cheap but not the eagled ones.
So, does anyone have a lead as to where I should be looking or a link to one that is actually good (or decent) and not a couple three hundred bucks?

Bob

 

[Movover]

Not familiar with the layout but can you remove the inner and outer fender to get in there with a drill?

 

[WhoWhatNow]

ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dental-Poli...329?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad1ede771

 

[Movover]

ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dental-Poli...329?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad1ede771

$318.99 ... might as well pull the motor

 

[WhoWhatNow]

$318.99 ... might as well pull the motor

Sorry, missed the crazy shipping cost!

 

[Olafur]

A search for "dental handpiece" on ebay might show something you are looking for.
for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CA-Dental-F...090?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item235080034a

Hose for it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dental-...450?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b12b2fada

I have no experience with dental drills so I can't help.

 

[gungatim]

you need to search "air pencil grinder" they are super cheap on amazon...like well under $50...

 

[Lotek]

Here's another route for the cash challenged. Iirc, the exhaust bolts go into a flange sort of casting on the head, we fixed a broken bolt on an old Merc wagon when I was a kid by making a c-clamp out of a piece of steel channel with a bolt tapped through it and just clamping the manifold on.

 

[Professur]

Not familiar with the layout but can you remove the inner and outer fender to get in there with a drill?

This or pull the engine, or the head. Don't let them waste your time with half assed attempts to avoid. It's not a 2015 that has 4000 sensors to unplug and has to remove half the suspension to get it out. Pulling the head would take ... half an hour maybe? Weld on a nut and have it out another 5 minutes? You'll spend longer trying to find a tool to do the job in situe, with no guarantees.


One of the best lessons I ever learned is to just do jobs the right way the first time, and spend the money on the right tool for the job. Spent a lot more time and money avoiding it, only to have to do it that way in the end.

 

[rsanter]

The inner panels are not removable. They really do not want to pull the engine and if they do it will involve much more of my time as they will need the help doing it.
His son is a good kid and a hard worker and he will help. But he has no experience and will need to be guided. That's my time.

I was hoping for an easier solution that would still be doing it Not Wrong.
That may just not exist. I was thinking that with a small enough unit we could get in there and grind out the bolt and the run a tap through the hole by taking a tap and shortening the shank a bit

Can't weld ontot he end of the bolt as it is flush or below. It would be very challenging to get the welder in there at an angle that would allow me to fill the center of a nut, bond to the end of the bolt, and not weld to the head......or that was my first choice to try.

I think I have come up with a solution......I think we are going to try to remove the suspension ( top half) and drill a hole in the suspension tower. This will give us a straight shot at the bolt to drill it out. Use an extended tap to clean the remains out and then when done I can weld up the hole if they don't like it there. I'm thinking that a well placed 1/2" hole will be all that is needed

Bob

 

[flht1997]

Did they snap one of the top ones that are open on the back? or one of the bottom blind holes?

 

[ttpete]

If you decide to pull the head off, remove the hood. It's only 4 bolts. Scribe around the hinge plates so you can line it up when it goes back on.

The intake manifold weighs about 50 pounds. It's a 2 man job to get it off and back on. I always sat on the cowl with my feet on the heads and lifted and passed it to someone in front. There's a short bypass hose between the water pump and manifold that should always be replaced. Use gasket sealer on the coolant ports and glue the end seals down to the block.

 

[wyo george]

I broke a couple on the 352 in our '59 ford and simply washed them out with a torch, chased the threads and went on about my day. A steel bolt has a lower melting point than cast iron, if you're careful it's no big task really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Professur]

The welding trick can be used as much as half an inch below surface with some practice ... but you do need a clean straight shot at it. Personally, when doing this I prefer to stick weld it. The flux supposedly helps protect the threads.

 

[Zapp Branigan]

Pull the head. BTDT. It'll be way less work and be done right. The worst part is removing the 390s 75 pound intake manifold.

 

[thegroundpounder99]

I'd have to say pull the head.....heads actually. No point of not doing both headgasets at sametime.

 

[stephen4785]

Iv used this thing for broken bolts a lot http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K801NI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[trackwelder]

I use 3/32 messer mg600 stick rods for extracting bolts broken below the surface. Sharpen the rod to a point and hit it dead center on the bolt. Lift the rod straight up and fill. Never had one I could not get out.

 

[Shadowdog500]

there was a guy on here or the corvette forum, forget which, but he used an air powered high speed dental drill to carve out a bolt from aluminum casting that broke off flush. I think he said you can get them fairly inexpensive on amazon, and he literally carved the thing outta there without touching the threads...do a search

I'm that guy. Here is a thread that shows it in action and gives the Amazon ordering info. I have two better threads on this tool but can't find them.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287828

Chris

 

[Professur]

I use 3/32 messer mg600 stick rods for extracting bolts broken below the surface. Sharpen the rod to a point and hit it dead center on the bolt. Lift the rod straight up and fill. Never had one I could not get out.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?14860-Messer-MG600-broken-bolt-removal&

that thread has pics showing the results. Hard to argue against success

 

[Strouty]

Did I miss where you said you can't drill it out? I would put the manifold back on and drill it to the proper size for the tap. It may not end up perfect, but it will hold a bolt.

 

[trackwelder]

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?14860-Messer-MG600-broken-bolt-removal&

that thread has pics showing the results. Hard to argue against success

We use to have an old guy with a station wagon who would come by once a week and sell us tools and supplies cheap. I was working on extracting a bolt and broke off three nuts that I mig welded on. He gave me a rod to try and it worked great. I bought a few pounds and only use it now on stubborn extractions. I need to buy some more some day.

 

[RedneckWelder]

honestly in this case since it's probably pretty simple to pull the heads I would just go ahead and do so.

Fighting a broken bolt in tight quarters is not my idea of a fun time, so I try to avoid it much as possible.

 

[rsanter]

Job is done.
We removed the top half of the suspension on the passenger side.
We drilled a hole at the right place in the inner panel/tower.
We then used a long drill bit to drill it out and then an extended tap to tap the threads.

We will weld up the hole and the put the suspension back in next

Bob

 

[csargents1546]

I know this has been said but try to convince them to pull the motor or the head. Had plenty of experience withe 390 manifold bolts. They are far from easy to remove. On a couple of ocasion we sent the head to a machine shop to remove.
A good sharp drill bit is key on those. Centering is second. Lot of Pb blaster. As far as extractors go I like the straight style extractors versus the twist style.
Good luck and let us know how it goes for him.

 

[carbon]

Here is the tool shadowdog used. He keeps saying Amazon, but he means eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111186455016

The whole post:


I bought it off of ebay. look up the numbers i post here in ebay. They are from my purchase history. on multiple occasions I've had to drill stuff and thought a dental drill would be great for this. when i saw cheap dental drills are $18 on amazon, i bought it. I use regular air tool lube in it.

dental drill $18 111186455016
10 pack of round head carbide burrs for the drill. $13 121347175414

hose for the drill. $11 281230283062

the max pressure for the drill is 30 PSI

i use a $3 air blow gun from HF to turn the drill on and off.

i put a cheap HF regulator on the blowgun as well.

I bought a $5 foot controller from Hong Kong on Ebay but haven't rigged it up yet.

Chris

 

[RedRabbit]

I would remove the heads. Why make it harder for yourself. A couple gaskets added to the price isn't much. I would pull the motor if you don't know much about it condition wise.

 

[logical]

I would remove the heads. Why make it harder for yourself. A couple gaskets added to the price isn't much. I would pull the motor if you don't know much about it condition wise.

Why would you do that? He got it done two days ago.