New Shop / Lighting / Think I Screwed Up

[RacerX10]

I have a new 40x40 shop, with 40x20 upstairs area, and right now I'm just lighting the "downstairs" 40x20 part. It has 9' ceilings down there. I like the idea of recessed lighting, so I bought 12 HALO recessed lighting boxes (8 bucks each) from Lowes. I also bought 12 LED lights @ 1300 lumens each, 3000k color.

I'm starting to think this isn't enough light, or is the wrong color.

The spacing on the light fixtures is about 4.5' each way.

There is a stairwell of about 16'x3' taking space away from downstairs, and also a 10'x5' bathroom down there, so it's not the full 40x20 needing to be lit.

Anybody have thoughts on this ? Did I buy the wrong lights ?

Thanks !

 

[Platonic Solid]

I have a new 40x40 shop, with 40x20 upstairs area, and right now I'm just lighting the "downstairs" 40x20 part. It has 9' ceilings down there.

? If the upstairs is 40x20, is the "downstairs" 40x20 or 40x40?

I like the idea of recessed lighting, so I bought 12 HALO recessed lighting boxes (8 bucks each) from Lowes. I also bought 12 LED lights @ 1300 lumens each, 3000k color.

Halo is a lighting manufacturer. Your fixture description is too vague to comment, though at $8 sounds like you're getting what you paid for.

Good shop lighting will run around $1 per sq. ft. (fixtures+bulbs)
40x40 = $1,600
40x20 = $800

 

[RacerX10]

Downstairs area that I am lighting right now is only 40x20, it's the area under the upstairs (obv also 40x20). I'll do the larger, high ceiling bay area lighting later.

$8.00 seems to be pretty typical for a recessed lighting fixture. All of them cost about that.

What would be good lighting for 700 sq feet, (40x20 - 50 sq foot bath - 50 sq foot stair) with a 9' ceiling ?

I've almost accepted that I need to pull those 12 recessed lighting fixtures back out and return them (with the LED bulbs) to Lowes.

Here's a couple pictures, and thanks !

 

[Platonic Solid]

These 2 layouts should give you the general idea: 24x44x9 and 23x40x9

 

[nehog]

Can you get bigger (higher output) LED bulbs for the fixtures? Can you get bulbs with a higher color temperature or a higher CRI? A higher color temperature may give you the appearance of more light.

 

[cybrdyke]

There's nothing wrong with using these cans and LED lamps...You simply dont have enough of them...
12 cans for 800 ft/2 wont cut it. Twice as many will probably still be too dim.

Here's what I'd do at this point....
Keep the cans and lamps installed and use them as a 2nd circuit for supplemental light. Then get a plan for the main lighting.
Research some of the new super slim LED surface mount stuff. Really cool looking, kinda like your recessed cans, and easy to install. But, definitely NOT $8 each....
Good luck
CD

 

[Mustang51js]

I would do the same, add a few more lights on another switch because you won't always need every light on,and save a little money on electric bill.

 

[Mustang51js]

You could also do 4-5 four bulb flourescent lights down the center spaced evenly between hi hats ,that would give you lots of light

 

[Strouty]

My office is 6' wide and 15' long, I have 6 can lights and that works well. You need a lot more. They also make spot lights and flood, make sure you have flood.

 

[RacerX10]

Decided to pull them all out and start from scratch. Found some pretty nice 4 bulb, 4' fluorescent fixtures at Lowe's for $50.00 each and I'll get 6 of them. Not as clean as tidy as the others but I don't want to install 24 or more fixtures when 6 of these others will do a better job for less money. Added benefit is that it's easy to get exactly the color temp you want.

The can light setup with 12 fixtures was around 16,000 lumens. This new setup will be 70,000 lumens, so that gets me 100 lumens/ft and should be good I think.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?productId=1208545#img

 

[dcmus]

I went to my electric supply house and asked them for advice. 28x31 high bay and I'm 69 so I want DAYLIGHT. They recommended 6 six bulb T5 fixtures and I'll also have some LED fixtures along the walls to eliminate shadows. Hoping that will be sufficient. Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[RacerX10]

Why T5 ? Everything I've seen says they aren't worth the extra money over T8.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Why T5 ? Everything I've seen says they aren't worth the extra money over T8.

What extra money?

I'm still on the fence...but from what I'm gathering for info & pricing thus far...pricing is comparable T5HO vs T8 when you factor in lumens...if you look solely at fixture costs..yes T5HO is more expensive. The savings come from needing less of them.

What I'm grappling with now is what is "better"...having more fixtures spread out or less fixtures.... on a 10' Ceiling.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Decided to pull them all out and start from scratch. Found some pretty nice 4 bulb, 4' fluorescent fixtures at Lowe's for $50.00 each and I'll get 6 of them. Not as clean as tidy as the others but I don't want to install 24 or more fixtures when 6 of these others will do a better job for less money. ...

Let's be perfectly clear here - 6 of the selected fixture will not do a better job, but it will be less money = you get what you pay for.

As for the rest of the discussion about F54T5HO lamps, they are the wrong lamp for mounting heights under 15ft.

 

[cybrdyke]

This new setup will be 70,000 lumens...

Say WHAAAAAT?????

Each recommended lamp is 2850 lms. Multiply that times the ballast factor, which is typically .88. Multiply that by the fixture efficiency, which for that fixture is probably somewhere around .8 (feeling generous). Multiply that x 4 lamps.
2850 x .88 x .8 x 4 = 8025 lumens per fixture
Multiply that by 6 fixtures = 48,153 total delivered lumens brand new.

You're still far far short of your goal.
(and I didn't even mention anything about you having to assemble that fixture. For $50 bucks they could have at least finished putting it together).
Good luck
CD

 

[Spudland_Dave]

As for the rest of the discussion about F54T5HO lamps, they are the wrong lamp for mounting heights under 15ft.

Mind if I pick your brain on this topic? Its a topic I'm grappling with right now.

Lets take financial/fixture amounts out of the picture.

I've been researching/reading about T5HO's in low bay garages...9-10-11' shops. To over simplify it...the detail, perfection oriented guys here on GJ say exactly that...T5HO is 14'+ Only.
Over on the other hobby sites more dedicated to fab work, and more on the projects in the Bays of the garage vs the actual bay & correct sheen of paint for a garage interior pretty much the general consensus is T5HO is as bright as the sun...wind em in hot & heavy.

So here we say Not to go T5HO on a 10' Ceiling. On forums of guys who work in their shops, they use T5HO's on 9' ceilings and are happy.

The one Caveat here in my research is that T5HO "high bay" fixtures utilize a chrome reflector. NEVER use one of those in a low bay application, and T5HO plain strips with no reflector (aka the famous Home Depot Lithonia) are "Low Bay" T5HO fixtures...

Thanks in Advance

 

[Platonic Solid]

High Bay = Generally 22 ft. +
Low Bay = Generally 15 to 22 ft.
F54T5HO Fixtures mounted between 8 and 14 ft. qualify as task lighting, not general area illumination.
If you need 150 lumens in a specific location for detail work then a louvered F54T5HO fixture works.

The problem with using F54T5HO open strip lights on lower ceilings for general illumination is glare and uneven illumination. These lamps are painful to look at. Standard response: “Then don’t look at them.” Unfortunately that’s impossible if they’re in your normal field of view, which is unavoidable in lower ceiling installations (this is glare).

Your pupils adjust to the brightest light in your field of view making shadowed or less well lit areas appear even darker.

It’s fairly easy to imagine a filthy shop with virtually no wall or ceiling reflectance praising F54T5HO over F32T8. They’re willing to put up with the glare in exchange for actually being able to see something through the filth. End result is the worst of both worlds: Glare and extremely uneven illumination. This causes eye strain which leads to fatigue and headaches.

 

[RacerX10]

Say WHAAAAAT?????

Each recommended lamp is 2850 lms. Multiply that times the ballast factor, which is typically .88. Multiply that by the fixture efficiency, which for that fixture is probably somewhere around .8 (feeling generous). Multiply that x 4 lamps.
2850 x .88 x .8 x 4 = 8025 lumens per fixture
Multiply that by 6 fixtures = 48,153 total delivered lumens brand new.

You're still far far short of your goal.
(and I didn't even mention anything about you having to assemble that fixture. For $50 bucks they could have at least finished putting it together).
Good luck
CD

Assembling the fixture took all of about 120 seconds, so that's not really a factor.

Thanks for info on the ballast factor, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[dcmus]

So many expert opinions and I'm not qualified to evaluate it all My fixtures will be 12 ft to accomodate a jib crane if it's ever needed. Guess I'll just go with it.

 

[RacerX10]

Does anybody know how much light is impeded by using a "wrap" type fixture instead of just naked bulbs out in the open ?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The one Caveat here in my research is that T5HO "high bay" fixtures utilize a chrome reflector. NEVER use one of those in a low bay application, and T5HO plain strips with no reflector (aka the famous Home Depot Lithonia) are "Low Bay" T5HO fixtures...

Thanks in Advance

The T5HO fixtures that have the polished aluminum reflectors......... in most brands, they make a similar version with a white painted reflector that is the low bay version.

Charles

 

[cybrdyke]

Does anybody know how much light is impeded by using a "wrap" type fixture instead of just naked bulbs out in the open ?

Fixture efficiency varies from manufacturer to manufacturer...even from model to model.
You could easily figure on 25% loss of lamp lumens in cheap to medium cheap wraps.
CD

 

[Spudland_Dave]

The T5HO fixtures that have the polished aluminum reflectors......... in most brands, they make a similar version with a white painted reflector that is the low bay version.

Charles

So would this be considered "Low Bay":

Its what I interpret as ok to use on my 10' ceiling...

 

[Platonic Solid]

So would this be considered "Low Bay":

Its what I interpret as ok to use on my 10' ceiling...

None of the above. It's just a standard luminaire. I would generally avoid the one pictured due to the lumen loss of putting lamps that close together and the custom (siamese twin) lamp holder won't likely be available at your local electrical supply should you need to replace it.