Wood Stove In Double Wide

[bannerd]

My insurance company wants there to be at least a one inch "air" gap between a heat shield on the wall. I was thinking about running cement board on the wall and around the window. On top of that doing a stone or tile. Is there a reason why I can't drill the cement board into the wall and tile that. Would the stove make the wall that hot where it would cause a house fire?

So far this is what I have;

18" from wall to wall, 8" from the front. Coming together well, stove is very small. It's a jotul 602.

 

[danfromsyr]

when dad installed one in our house in the 80's he used ceramic electric fence insulators as spacers behind the cement board.
should be cheap and available at your local farm or rural supply.

 

[bannerd]

when dad installed one in our house in the 80's he used ceramic electric fence insulators as spacers behind the cement board.
should be cheap and available at your local farm or rural supply.

Neat idea, I'll see what my local hardware store has. That and some concrete boards with tiles should do the trick.

 

[Voi]

Did your insurance company specify what made a suitable heat shield?

I went through something similar but with manufacturer's requirements (not insurance) and they specifically indicated metal with an air space held off by ceramic spacers.

This site discusses both masonry and sheet metal options. In both cases the ceramic spacers are required so I wouldn't just screw the cement board to the wall like you mentioned unless the wood stove will be further away from the wall than it appears in the picture.

Note that the link mentions a space at the bottom of the heat shield as well as sides and top.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/wood-stove-heat-shield-ideas-84992.html

 

[Highbeam]

The air gap is what makes this wall shield an NFPA heat shield. Most often, folks just cut strips of the cement board and stack two of them. Then with the fancy long durok screws screw the shield through the spacer strips to the wall studs and tile as normal. You also need an opening at the bottom and top to ventilate this air gap to make it a fully functional NFPA wall shield.

None of this is required if you met your clearances to combustibles as specified by the stove and flue pipe manufacturer.

 

[James-W]

With the relatively low price of natural gas, I am surprised people still want to burn wood.

 

[kbs2244]

Is there a requirement for a gap at the top and bottom for air flow?

 

[theoldwizard1]

The best heat shield is a a metal plate that stands off of the wall. The metal does not have to be very thick (0.060 - 0.090 ?), but if it is thin it will need some support.

If those are vinyl windows it better extend in front of them.

My Dad heated his cabin with a wood stove for years. He peeled off the knotty pine behind where he was going to install the stove, installed 1/2" cement board and then face brick. The back side of that wall was in a bedroom and it was surprisingly HOT ! Then he built a metal heat shield/reflector.

IMHO, it should be at least 2" off the wall (4" better) to provide adequate circulation behind it. I would build something "portable" with feet so that you can remove it during the off season. Dad had something like this is his cabin. It worked very well.

 

[NUTTSGT]

With the relatively low price of natural gas, I am surprised people still want to burn wood.

Nat Gas isn't available in all areas and I don't think I could heat my garage all winter for about $100, which is about cutting wood costs me.

 

[mygarageone]

Nat Gas isn't available in all areas and I don't think I could heat my garage all winter for about $100, which is about cutting wood costs me.

$100.00 doesn't buy much wood anymore at least not around here .

 

[NUTTSGT]

$100.00 doesn't buy much wood anymore at least not around here .

I don't buy firewood, that's about what my expenses are to cut wood and haul it home.

 

[theoldwizard1]

$100.00 doesn't buy much wood anymore at least not around here .

You live near one of the largest forest East of the Mississippi ! I would be surprised if anyone buy cut firewood around there except summer campers.

 

[James-W]

I don't buy firewood, that's about what my expenses are to cut wood and haul it home.

Obviously, natural gas has to be available in your area in order for you to be able to use it. I realize that and I don't mean to downplay the availability issue.

I understand what you are saying about the wood being a cheap source of energy, but it isn't just what it cost for running the chainsaw and driving the truck. You also need to consider your time and the wear and tear on your equipment. When you do that, the cost goes up considerably. Also, not everyone has a source for "free" firewood, they have to buy it. Additionally, there is the "ease of use" for natural gas. For example, I can set my gas furnace to a certain temperature and leave it unattended. With a wood stove it doesn't work that way.

My parents burned wood for many years. We lived on a farm and we had a rather large woods along with tractors, trucks, wagons and other wood cutting equipment. Back then wood heat was pretty commonplace and most of the people we knew burned wood for heat.

Today, I can see burning wood if the price for other sources of energy were really high priced. In my opinion natural gas is more than reasonably priced and all things considered, it is a good heating source. Right or wrong, the way I look at it is, when you consider the cost to cut the wood, to split it and haul it to your house or shop, in terms of time as well as money spent, I think most people would be better off using natural gas, IF it is available.

 

[Bondo]

I understand what you are saying about the wood being a cheap source of energy, but it isn't just what it cost for running the chainsaw and driving the truck. You also need to consider your time and the wear and tear on your equipment. When you do that, the cost goes up considerably. Also, not everyone has a source for "free" firewood, they have to buy it.

Ayuh,.... I guess it depends on yer point of view,......

You couldn't pay me enough to Not cut, 'n split my own firewood,....

That is 2nd only to goin' fishin', for myself,......

I do Both,... Just for the pure Enjoyment of it,......

 

[bannerd]

The old house we lived in had natural gas. When we moved out into the country we didn't have very many options. Propane is around $3 a gallon and the next thing to that was UV heat or geothermal which is expensive. With 6 cords of wood running $300 it seems like a great deal. I do miss natural gas, I had a sweet gas range in the home and the on demand hot water heater never missed a beat even when the power failed. The next pipe line is 30 miles away with plans to make it available to rural consumers.

I'll have to start on the fire board this weekend, thinking about a porcelain tile on a 3/4' concrete board.

 

[theoldwizard1]

With 6 cords of wood running $300 it seems like a great deal.

Delivered, cut and dried that is a STEAL.

My Dad would buy a 40' trailer load, green, 8' lengths. He let it dry for a year and cut the logs into stove size. Nothing was really huge (max 12-14" diameter) so he split them by hand, maul and wedge. (He lived in upper MI, very similar to upper NY.)

I do miss natural gas, I had a sweet gas range in the home and the on demand hot water heater never missed a beat even when the power failed.

Propane is affordable if all you are doing is cooking, heating water, and drying clothes for a small family. Good for a generator also.

I'll have to start on the fire board this weekend, thinking about a porcelain tile on a 3/4' concrete board.

You are still going to need that metal heat shield.

Depending on the size and layout of your double wide, a couple of mini-split heat pumps could be a good alternative.

Another tip from Mom and Dad. The stove heated most of the cabin very well, but not the Master Bedroom, which was an addition. Temps in the bedroom would drop into the 50s at night. Use a heat mattress pad ! Set it up on a cheap mechanical lamp timer to turn on about 30-60 minutes before your bedtime. Heat rise and normal blankets hold it in. Night cap (the kind you wear not drink) optional !

 

[James-W]

Ayuh,.... I guess it depends on yer point of view,......

You couldn't pay me enough to Not cut, 'n split my own firewood,....

That is 2nd only to goin' fishin', for myself,......

I do Both,... Just for the pure Enjoyment of it,......

If you enjoy cutting wood for heat, that's great, everybody has their particular hobby and/or form of recreation. As for me, I like to play golf.

I have no statistics on this but I would venture to guess that most people burn wood because they feel it is cheaper than using other forms of energy to heat their home, or their garage/shop. If someone wants to burn wood that's fine, I don't have a problem with it. Everyone is free to heat their home/shop any way that they want. I suspect wood heat is cheaper if you don't consider everything involved, to include your time. When you include everything involved, then I have my doubts that it really is cheaper. That's my opinion and everyone is free to agree or disagree.

 

[Highbeam]

Propane is affordable if all you are doing is cooking, heating water, and drying clothes for a small family. Good for a generator also.


You are still going to need that metal heat shield.

I cut wood for 100% of my heat. Affordable to you may not be affordable to someone else so the point is that LPG will just about always cost more than electricity and will also be much more than wood. Even if you buy all your wood cut and split.

You do NOT need a metal heat shield. Stop saying that. The NFPA allows masonry which includes cement board. 1" ventilated air space behind the shield is required.

 

[930dreamer]

If I go out of my way to the shop I can check out two brush lots where trees are disposed of. This is my pile for the shop vintage Fisher woodstove.

 

[bannerd]

If I go out of my way to the shop I can check out two brush lots where trees are disposed of. This is my pile for the shop vintage Fisher woodstove.

Nice chair! It'll work.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

With the relatively low price of natural gas, I am surprised people still want to burn wood.

Gotta have gas available to you to burn. I wished I had NG but it isn't even close to me.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Obviously, natural gas has to be available in your area in order for you to be able to use it. I realize that and I don't mean to downplay the availability issue.

I understand what you are saying about the wood being a cheap source of energy, but it isn't just what it cost for running the chainsaw and driving the truck. You also need to consider your time and the wear and tear on your equipment. When you do that, the cost goes up considerably. Also, not everyone has a source for "free" firewood, they have to buy it. Additionally, there is the "ease of use" for natural gas. For example, I can set my gas furnace to a certain temperature and leave it unattended. With a wood stove it doesn't work that way.

My parents burned wood for many years. We lived on a farm and we had a rather large woods along with tractors, trucks, wagons and other wood cutting equipment. Back then wood heat was pretty commonplace and most of the people we knew burned wood for heat.

Today, I can see burning wood if the price for other sources of energy were really high priced. In my opinion natural gas is more than reasonably priced and all things considered, it is a good heating source. Right or wrong, the way I look at it is, when you consider the cost to cut the wood, to split it and haul it to your house or shop, in terms of time as well as money spent, I think most people would be better off using natural gas, IF it is available.

People like to mention the time involved when cutting wood, not singling you out, yet I believe they forget to think about paying for the heat they use, whether it's NG, LP, fuel oil or electric. That train of thought needs to take into account the yearly cost of that heat and how many hours they need to work (net pay, not gross) to sign the check, swipe the debit card or pay electronically when they get the bill. I know what it costs to heat my house with fuel oil and don't want that cost again for the garage.

Cutting/splitting wood is also a great form of exercise, which I'm sure most of us could use. For me, it's also the added benefit of relaxation and nobody bothering back in the woods or running the splitter, I consider that priceless.

When it comes to heat, to each their own.

 

[James-W]

People like to mention the time involved when cutting wood, not singling you out, yet I believe they forget to think about paying for the heat they use, whether it's NG, LP, fuel oil or electric. That train of thought needs to take into account the yearly cost of that heat and how many hours they need to work (net pay, not gross) to sign the check, swipe the debit card or pay electronically when they get the bill. I know what it costs to heat my house with fuel oil and don't want that cost again for the garage.

Cutting/splitting wood is also a great form of exercise, which I'm sure most of us could use. For me, it's also the added benefit of relaxation and nobody bothering back in the woods or running the splitter, I consider that priceless.

When it comes to heat, to each their own.

It certainly does cost money to pay for the natural gas, or whatever form of energy is used for heating. But now consider how much money you make per hour, then figure how many hours you spend cutting firewood. What if you had worked at your job (or some other job) all those hours? You would no doubt have a sizable chunk of change with which to pay for the natural gas, or whatever form of energy you use. We really need to consider our time when we do stuff like this. Our time is worth money. If it weren't worth money our boss wouldn't be paying us.

As far as exercise goes, that's a totally different issue. This thread is about heat for a building, not about exercise and weight loss. That may very well be a topic for a thread, but it doesn't really apply here in this one. Besides that, maybe you work in construction and you get a lot more exercise working at your regular job than you do cutting wood.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

It certainly does cost money to pay for the natural gas, or whatever form of energy is used for heating. But now consider how much money you make per hour, then figure how many hours you spend cutting firewood. What if you had worked at your job (or some other job) all those hours? You would no doubt have a sizable chunk of change with which to pay for the natural gas, or whatever form of energy you use. We really need to consider our time when we do stuff like this. Our time is worth money. If it weren't worth money our boss wouldn't be paying us.

As far as exercise goes, that's a totally different issue. This thread is about heat for a building, not about exercise and weight loss. That may very well be a topic for a thread, but it doesn't really apply here in this one. Besides that, maybe you work in construction and you get a lot more exercise working at your regular job than you do cutting wood.

My time doesn't cost me anything.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You do NOT need a metal heat shield. Stop saying that. The NFPA allows masonry which includes cement board.

Okay, based on personal experience, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND a metal heat shield. If those are vinyl framed windows, I would be very concerned.

1" ventilated air space behind the shield is required.

Behind a metal heat shield, absolutley. Behind masonry (cement board), probably a good idea.

 

[bczygan]

My time doesn't cost me anything.

My time doesn't cost me anything.

Neither is it worth anything.

Which leaves me free to use it as I like.

It's nice to do cost analysis and compare what you could earn doing something else, but if you would rather chop wood, that changes the intrinsic values of things.

Bill

 

[James-W]

Over the years I have come to realize that people view things from many different perspectives. My thinking process is that everyone's time is worth something. Obviously, not everyone's time is worth the same, it is very apparent the time of some people is worth more than the time of others. For example, an attorney's time is worth more than the time of a person flipping burgers at a fast food place. A electrician's time is worth more than the time of a person emptying the trash cans at the local grocery store. Everyone's time is worth a different amount, how much your time is worth is for you and your employer to decide upon.

I am not saying people should not cut wood for heat. If someone enjoys cutting wood for heat, that's great, I think they should do it. When people have time off from work, I think they should do the things they enjoy doing. So if cutting makes someone happy, then I am all for it.

But when someone says they heated their home with wood all Winter long for $100, I find that to be more than a little misleading. If they earn $20 per hour working and they spent 100 hours cutting the wood, hauling it home and stacking it up, then in reality the heat cost was really $2,100. What they did is, they worked the hours but instead of getting paid in dollars they got paid in firewood. Now obviously, if they had been paid in dollars they would have to pay income tax on that money, but you get the idea of what I am trying to say.

I am well aware that people do not have to reach into their pocket and take out money to pay for the wood. That's why without really thinking about it they somehow feel the heat they get is free. But when you sit down and really consider it, their time really is worth money and the time they spend cutting and hauling the wood should be counted in the cost of the heat. Problem is, when the amount of time it takes to get the firewood home and ready to burn is taken into account, the cost of burning wood is less attractive than when you don't consider it. That being the case, most people just want to forget about that part of it.

If you think your time isn't worth anything, then let's look at this another way. Let's say that you are a roofer. The wind blows a bunch of shingles off your roof. You figure it will take three bundles of shingles to fix the roof. You want to do the job yourself. Are you going to tell your insurance company that you will fix the roof and only charge them for the cost of the shingles? After all, your time isn't worth anything and it is your roof. I don't know why but for some reason I have the feeling you are going to want the insurance company to pay you for repairing the roof, and they should you pay you for doing it. Your time is worth something and it should be counted in with the cost of the job. Your time should also be counted when cutting wood.

 

[Radix2]

Over the years I have come to realize that people view things from many different perspectives. My thinking process is that everyone's time is worth something. Obviously, not everyone's time is worth the same, it is very apparent the time of some people is worth more than the time of others. For example, an attorney's time is worth more than the time of a person flipping burgers at a fast food place. A electrician's time is worth more than the time of a person emptying the trash cans at the local grocery store. Everyone's time is worth a different amount, how much your time is worth is for you and your employer to decide upon.

I am not saying people should not cut wood for heat. If someone enjoys cutting wood for heat, that's great, I think they should do it. When people have time off from work, I think they should do the things they enjoy doing. So if cutting makes someone happy, then I am all for it.

But when someone says they heated their home with wood all Winter long for $100, I find that to be more than a little misleading. If they earn $20 per hour working and they spent 100 hours cutting the wood, hauling it home and stacking it up, then in reality the heat cost was really $2,100. What they did is, they worked the hours but instead of getting paid in dollars they got paid in firewood. Now obviously, if they had been paid in dollars they would have to pay income tax on that money, but you get the idea of what I am trying to say.

I am well aware that people do not have to reach into their pocket and take out money to pay for the wood. That's why without really thinking about it they somehow feel the heat they get is free. But when you sit down and really consider it, their time really is worth money and the time they spend cutting and hauling the wood should be counted in the cost of the heat. Problem is, when the amount of time it takes to get the firewood home and ready to burn is taken into account, the cost of burning wood is less attractive than when you don't consider it. That being the case, most people just want to forget about that part of it.

If you think your time isn't worth anything, then let's look at this another way. Let's say that you are a roofer. The wind blows a bunch of shingles off your roof. You figure it will take three bundles of shingles to fix the roof. You want to do the job yourself. Are you going to tell your insurance company that you will fix the roof and only charge them for the cost of the shingles? After all, your time isn't worth anything and it is your roof. I don't know why but for some reason I have the feeling you are going to want the insurance company to pay you for repairing the roof, and they should you pay you for doing it. Your time is worth something and it should be counted in with the cost of the job. Your time should also be counted when cutting wood.

Your "business case" is nonsense because it implies that a person is substituting cutting wood for their normal occupation - that is only situation where you can value their chopping hours that way. For the vast majority of people that is not the case.

A more accurate view is to consider the firewood work a second job, a job that pays whatever it would cost to replace the heat from that effort. It has nothing to do with their normal careers pay rate. And considering they are not substituting time they could be working their normal job - it is a flat out addition to their income.

Now, if it takes 100 hours to replace that which they could buy for $200, yep that is low pay - but it is still $200 more than they would have had otherwise...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Now back to the clearance issue.Its been a little while,but the last time I installed a furnace I was required to have 6" of clearance on the sides/back of furnace.
Im no engineer,but the last time I checked an old wood burner put off a whole hell of a lot more heat than any gas fired furnace Ive ever installed.
Id say somebody is putting a lot of faith in a piece of tin with a 1" airgap behind it unless the wood burner is 2' away from it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Now back to the clearance issue.
.
.
.
Id say somebody is putting a lot of faith in a piece of tin with a 1" airgap behind it unless the wood burner is 2' away from it.

Please note my original post.

My Dad heated his cabin with a wood stove for years. He peeled off the knotty pine behind where he was going to install the stove, installed 1/2" cement board and then face brick. The back side of that wall was in a bedroom and it was surprisingly HOT ! Then he built a metal heat shield/reflector.

IMHO, it should be at least 2" off the wall (4" better) to provide adequate circulation behind it. I would build something "portable" with feet so that you can remove it during the off season. Dad had something like this is his cabin. It worked very well.

The wood stove was less than 18" from heat shield.

 

[James-W]

Your "business case" is nonsense because it implies that a person is substituting cutting wood for their normal occupation - that is only situation where you can value their chopping hours that way. For the vast majority of people that is not the case.

A more accurate view is to consider the firewood work a second job, a job that pays whatever it would cost to replace the heat from that effort. It has nothing to do with their normal careers pay rate. And considering they are not substituting time they could be working their normal job - it is a flat out addition to their income.

Now, if it takes 100 hours to replace that which they could buy for $200, yep that is low pay - but it is still $200 more than they would have had otherwise...

You can view it any way that you want, but the reality is that your time is worth something and when you are cutting wood you are, in effect, getting paid with firewood rather than dollars. If you had worked those same hours at a regular job you would have earned dollars with which you could buy fuel for heat. All I am saying is you need to add those dollars into the equation if you want to get a more accurate cost for burning wood. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[James-W]

I would like to apologize to the opening poster for getting this thread off track. It wasn't my intent to get things off on a tangent, it just sort of turned out that way, and for that I apologize.

 

[bannerd]

Well I've been busy, I picked up a heat shield kit that was an option for the wood stove. It came with a aluminium plate for the rear of the wood stove as well as a plate for the bottom. Snagged some cement board from the local hardware store and some cheap tile they had for sale.

The molding isn't vynl, it's a paper board (junk!). Right now from the rear corners of the wood stove I'm 18 1/2 inches from the walls. 10 and 1/2 from the front of the wood stove. My insurance company wants it at least 18" from combustibles. The manufacture of the wood stove has clearances no less than 7 inches from a shielded wall and 16" from a non shielded wall. I might but a fan in the corner to move the heat away and out into the room quicker. Stay tuned!

note* Don't mind the liquid nails, I use it a lot for holding things into place. Couldn't have done all the 1" copper pipe without it!

 

[Highbeam]

You can view it any way that you want, but the reality is that your time is worth something and when you are cutting wood you are, in effect, getting paid with firewood rather than dollars. If you had worked those same hours at a regular job you would have earned dollars with which you could buy fuel for heat. All I am saying is you need to add those dollars into the equation if you want to get a more accurate cost for burning wood. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Because you're wrong. It's just an opinion and most of us have a different one. I work a regular job for 8 hours a day and get paid a rate for it. My employer won't pay me for 12 hours a day so I take those next four hours for which nobody is going to pay me (aka no value) and make firewood which has some value. Something out of nothing you might say. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[DekeT]

Over the years I have come to realize that people view things from many different perspectives. My thinking process is that everyone's time is worth something. Obviously, not everyone's time is worth the same, it is very apparent the time of some people is worth more than the time of others. For example, an attorney's time is worth more than the time of a person flipping burgers at a fast food place. A electrician's time is worth more than the time of a person emptying the trash cans at the local grocery store. Everyone's time is worth a different amount, how much your time is worth is for you and your employer to decide upon.

I am not saying people should not cut wood for heat. If someone enjoys cutting wood for heat, that's great, I think they should do it. When people have time off from work, I think they should do the things they enjoy doing. So if cutting makes someone happy, then I am all for it.

But when someone says they heated their home with wood all Winter long for $100, I find that to be more than a little misleading. If they earn $20 per hour working and they spent 100 hours cutting the wood, hauling it home and stacking it up, then in reality the heat cost was really $2,100. What they did is, they worked the hours but instead of getting paid in dollars they got paid in firewood. Now obviously, if they had been paid in dollars they would have to pay income tax on that money, but you get the idea of what I am trying to say.

I am well aware that people do not have to reach into their pocket and take out money to pay for the wood. That's why without really thinking about it they somehow feel the heat they get is free. But when you sit down and really consider it, their time really is worth money and the time they spend cutting and hauling the wood should be counted in the cost of the heat. Problem is, when the amount of time it takes to get the firewood home and ready to burn is taken into account, the cost of burning wood is less attractive than when you don't consider it. That being the case, most people just want to forget about that part of it.

If you think your time isn't worth anything, then let's look at this another way. Let's say that you are a roofer. The wind blows a bunch of shingles off your roof. You figure it will take three bundles of shingles to fix the roof. You want to do the job yourself. Are you going to tell your insurance company that you will fix the roof and only charge them for the cost of the shingles? After all, your time isn't worth anything and it is your roof. I don't know why but for some reason I have the feeling you are going to want the insurance company to pay you for repairing the roof, and they should you pay you for doing it. Your time is worth something and it should be counted in with the cost of the job. Your time should also be counted when cutting wood.

The concept of opportunity cost seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Well I've been busy, I picked up a heat shield kit that was an option for the wood stove. It came with a aluminium plate for the rear of the wood stove as well as a plate for the bottom. Snagged some cement board from the local hardware store and some cheap tile they had for sale.

Your heat shield looks nice and the air gap IS KEY ! Key an eye on the wall temperature above your shield. Metal would be a better shield because it gives up heat faster.

You might need a bigger gap at the bottom of the shield to let more air in for the upflow.

I'm still nervous about that window and trim !

 

[hh76]

You can view it any way that you want, but the reality is that your time is worth something and when you are cutting wood you are, in effect, getting paid with firewood rather than dollars. If you had worked those same hours at a regular job you would have earned dollars with which you could buy fuel for heat. All I am saying is you need to add those dollars into the equation if you want to get a more accurate cost for burning wood. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Your free time is worth absolutely nothing, if you would normally spend it sitting on the couch. No one is talking about taking time off from their 9-5 job to go chop wood, they are talking about their off hrs when too many people earn zero dollars an hour watching tv or playing on the computer.