Rock Island 574 Vise

[thehorse13]

I picked up this vise for 100 bucks because I've always wanted one. Aside from the layers of bad paint, you can tell that this vise did not lead a hard life and will clean up beautifully. It has 4 and half inch jaws and has to weigh 75 pounds.

That said, does anyone know what color this vise should be from the factory? I plan on preserving the Birtman Electric plate as well and it appears to be pinned on to the vise. Is there a safe way to remove this so that I can place it back on the vise when the restoration is complete?

Thanks.

 

[Fretters]

The plaques and their pins are always a cautious removal. The best way I've personally found is to get a thin blade behind the plaque, where the pins are, and try and slightly work the pins loose. Once you have a gnat's of movement in those pins, you can usually get them from above by prying them upwards. Stanley knife blades, a putty knife and a wide, stiff blade wallpaper scraper are the main things I use for working those loose.

Brass plaques are usually easier to work with than aluminium ones. It's extremely easy to bust the portion around the pins on the aluminium plaques, so subtlety and patience are definitely your friends.

 

[thehorse13]

I am in no rush to finish this vise so I will see if I can get some PB blaster behind the plate and then work it loose the way you have explained. Thanks for the info!

 

[jabber]

You could center punch the pins and then drill them out to avoid bending or damaging the plate. Good looking vise!

 

[thehorse13]

I have hit my first obstacle with this vise. I took it apart only to find that the main nut has a small crack in it. I should have checked but because the vise looked so good on the outside, I assumed that the main nut would be near mint. I was wrong.

Can anyone tell me where I might find a 574 main nut?

Thanks.

 

[Fretters]

Any photo's of the crack?

 

[thehorse13]

Well fellas, it looks like I may have been skunked this time. After removing 1/8 inch of 50 year old paint, I have discovered the secrets this old girl was hiding.

The main nut has a crack. My gut tells me I could still use this one but it would bother me knowing it was in this condition.

Even so, I found a worse issue with the body of the vise. This crack was hiding under tons of paint and grime. It goes about 1/4 inch down one side.

All other parts are in beautiful shape, including the jaw pads. The question now becomes, is this thing worth restoring and using or is this simply a parts vise now?

Thoughts?

 

[Fretters]

Is this a vice you're planning on keeping or selling? Either way, those would both tidely up nicely with a bit of brazing, provided you cleaned the cracks out thoroughly first.

That bottom support, you would have to be beasting on the vice to worry a braze repair on that, and the crack on that nut is almost negligible. That wouldn't even break a sweat once brazed.

 

[thehorse13]

The plot thickens...

I decided to remove all the layers of paint and the first thing I discovered was that the paint is battleship grey. No big deal as a lot of vises are this color.

Next, I removed some layers of rust on the bar and found a date stamp: 9-44. Hmmm, how could a company produce something with this much raw material months after the D-Day invasion?

Ultimately, I removed all of the paint from the body and right behind the jaw I found the answer to my question. A stamp is struck into the metal that reads, "USN".

It appears that I have a WWII United States Navy surplus vise.

I plan on keeping and using this vise. I guess I should find a place that does brazing and haul it in. I don't have the equipment at home to make the repair. Should I not braze the two parts, should I worry about this thing breaking? It worked perfectly before I took it apart but I never put a ton of torque on the jaws either.

 

[drivesitfar]

Horse: if you have a shop that can braze those two parts you can still have a good working vise or maybe just put it on a shelf and wait to find another Rock Island 974 that has a good static and vise nut so you'll have a vise that isn't welded. luckily it looks like both cracks are not all the way through, but it still might be a fairly expensive fix and having welds on a vise does keep the values down.

as far as your USN stamp and the date of 9/44 it might have been put on a ship 3 months after D-day. pretty nice piece of history you have there. Rock Island, Wilton, Morgan and maybe a few other vise companies made vises for Uncle Sam and Morgan still does.

i have a Morgan 50 that came off the USS Independence just before it was scrapped and the ships maiden trip was in 1956. just posting so you can see the original battleship grey on mine.

sorry to hear and see you found issues, but it happens to all of us.

good luck

 

[Fretters]

Next, I removed some layers of rust on the bar and found a date stamp: 9-44. Hmmm, how could a company produce something with this much raw material months before the D-Day invasion?

Nice piece of history you have there. I didn't know raw materials were metered on your side of the pond too though, during the war, until you mentioned it. I'd always assumed that you would have so much raw material over there that it wouldn't have been an issue, like it was for us. Learn something new everyday.

I plan on keeping and using this vise. I guess I should find a place that does brazing and haul it in. I don't have the equipment at home to make the repair. Should I not braze the two parts, should I worry about this thing breaking? It worked perfectly before I took it apart but I never put a ton of torque on the jaws either.

With considerate use, it should probably be fine as is. I'd personally have it brazed though, just for peace of mind, and with a good brazing job, it's quite easy to fettle the surface and make the repair nigh on invisible.

 

[thehorse13]

Yea, I really don't want to alter this vise. I guess I will clean it up, paint it, and then give it some light use around the garage.

 

[Nick Danger]

Nice piece of history you have there. I didn't know raw materials were metered on your side of the pond too though, during the war, until you mentioned it. I'd always assumed that you would have so much raw material over there that it wouldn't have been an issue, like it was for us. Learn something new everyday.

Oh, yes. Pennies were minted in zinc because the copper was needed for the war. Food ration stamps, and little plastic coins to make change for ration stamps. Most of our anvils were donated to scrap metal drives. I have a 1943 newspaper from a small town, and the classified advertisements are full of used tires wanted and for sale. That's because there were no new tires -- all the rubber went to the war effort. Gasoline rationing was by miles per week, and only necessary services like rural doctors were allowed to have unlimited miles.

 

[jakemac]

If it didn't have the history that it does, I'd just use it as is until it breaks.
Because of it's Naval service, I'd have it brazed to preserve it for posterity.

 

[thehorse13]

Horse: ...as far as your USN stamp and the date of 9/44 it might have been put on a ship 3 months after D-day...

lol. I meant 3 months AFTER D-Day. It's been a long day already. Hehe.

 

[drivesitfar]

Horse: no apology necessary because you mentioned that in your original post. is the sun getting to you or are you putting out a lot of fires? or fixing several things and trying to take pictures and make GJ posts when you can.

best of luck with the vise and like i mentioned that vise is somewhat common other than the history you mentioned so maybe you can find some local old guy that can braze up the cracks that might not ever be seen as Fretters suggested.

cheers and have a great day

 

[ZRX61]

I have two of them, where did you find the date stamp?

As for the plate riveted on the side, I just masked it off when I blasted the vise clean.

 

[thehorse13]

Drivesit far:
It is the weekend so I run a three ring circus of house chores, garage projects, honey do lists and kids stuff. I have been known to post here as well.

ZRX61:
I managed to get the pins out. They are threaded like wood screws and using the advice earlier in this thread, I was successful. Attached you will see the markings in the pics.

I'm down to bare metal on the large parts and the rest of the stuff is taking a nice vinegar bath to remove rust. I plan on running the handles on the buffer today to bring out the shine. I should be assembling the vise by mid week if all the stars align.

 

[exmaxima1]

i have a Morgan 50 that came off the USS Independence just before it was scrapped and the ships maiden trip was in 1956. just posting so you can see the original battleship grey on mine.

That's a beautiful Morgan Milwaukee. Never seen one with those tapered handle ends. How new is it? It has the newer "T-style" jaws as well. I'm thinking maybe 90's?

 

[Brad54]

I've had one vise that was broken where yours is cracked on the static jaw... what happens is the dynamic jaw isn't supported outside the line of clamping, so when you clamp something in the jaws, the whole dynamic jaw pivots where it slides into the static jaw--so you don't get a good clamping pressure. My guess is what pivoting/force is what caused the nut to crack as well, as the pivoting was transferred through the screw and put it in a bind with the nut.

Every time you clamp something in that vise, the crack is getting spread and worked a little.
If I were going to attempt to fix it, the first thing I would do is drill very small holes all the way through that "tail" at both ends of the crack, to keep it from growing.
Then I'd take it to a welding shop and ask them to TIG the crack (V-it with a grinder first) with cast steel welding rods, a half-inch at a time, and hit the weld with a chipping hammer to stress-relieve it until it's cool enough to touch. Then do another half-inch, repeating until you get to the end of the crack.
Grind, paint and if not good-as-new, a very close Second.

I'm not sure that brazing in that high-stress area is going to hold of you use the vise as a vise (meaning, "clamp the ever-lovin hell out of things and beat on them once in a while).

-Brad

 

[thehorse13]

I decided to clean the old girl up this weekend so here is the end result of a good cleaning, painting and polishing. I'm going to give her light shop duty and call it a day. If I notice things going south, then I will drag her down to the local welding shop and get her fixed up.

 

[drivesitfar]

Horse: good luck and if you do braze it like Brad mentions you probably should keep it as a light to medium duty vise or find a new static and vise nut to upgrade later.

Ex: i bought my Morgan 50 from a 75 year old that was scrapping the USS Independence at a shipyard near me in the late 90's. since the ship launched in 1956 i assumed the vise was original to the ship, but they could have changed out the vises i guess. i'll have to do some research maybe to see if you might be right or you are welcome to do that.

i do like the handles that i thought was more of a Starrett design that is on the Craftsman 519x series vises.

 

[Fretters]

Oh, yes. Pennies were minted in zinc because the copper was needed for the war. Food ration stamps, and little plastic coins to make change for ration stamps. Most of our anvils were donated to scrap metal drives. I have a 1943 newspaper from a small town, and the classified advertisements are full of used tires wanted and for sale. That's because there were no new tires -- all the rubber went to the war effort. Gasoline rationing was by miles per week, and only necessary services like rural doctors were allowed to have unlimited miles.

Cheers for that info. I honestly never knew you'd felt the bite so much over there too.

 

[exmaxima1]

Ex: i bought my Morgan 50 from a 75 year old that was scrapping the USS Independence at a shipyard near me in the late 90's. since the ship launched in 1956 i assumed the vise was original to the ship, but they could have changed out the vises i guess. i'll have to do some research maybe to see if you might be right or you are welcome to do that.

Off hand, Morgan changed owners over the years. They were Morgan Aurora (a few miles from my home) in the 50's and became Morgan Milwaukee in the 70's.

 

[FJ 432]

lol. I meant 3 months AFTER D-Day. It's been a long day already. Hehe.

And just a play on words. D-Day was considered the "Longest Day".

Good job on the vise. Will you share the color that you used? I really like it.

 

[thehorse13]

And just a play on words. D-Day was considered the "Longest Day".

Good job on the vise. Will you share the color that you used? I really like it.

The paint color came out better than expected. It's Rustoleum Hammered Rosemary. It was 6 bucks a can and I took a chance. I'm glad that I did.

 

[Fretters]

I decided to clean the old girl up this weekend so here is the end result of a good cleaning, painting and polishing. I'm going to give her light shop duty and call it a day. If I notice things going south, then I will drag her down to the local welding shop and get her fixed up.

That looks tidy. Nicely done.

 

[thehorse13]

That looks tidy. Nicely done.

Thanks. After a complete cleaning, painting, greasing and assembly, I can turn the handle on this hulk with the tip of my little finger. It is amazingly smooth and well balanced.

 

[exmaxima1]

The paint color came out better than expected. It's Rustoleum Hammered Rosemary. It was 6 bucks a can and I took a chance. I'm glad that I did.

I love that color as well, and hopefully I can find it locally. Very nice job!

 

[thehorse13]

I love that color as well, and hopefully I can find it locally. Very nice job!

I found the color at the local Home Depot. They had a crate of it.

 

[exmaxima1]

I found the color at the local Home Depot. They had a crate of it.

Thanks! Found it on their website. It's one of their Universal paints that I haven't used much except on a mailbox. I heard that you must use the entire can at once, as the tip gets fouled---since you can spray upside down, there's no way to clear the tip.

Have you had this experience with the Rust Oleum Universal?

 

[thehorse13]

Thanks! Found it on their website. It's one of their Universal paints that I haven't used much except on a mailbox. I heard that you must use the entire can at once, as the tip gets fouled---since you can spray upside down, there's no way to clear the tip.

Have you had this experience with the Rust Oleum Universal?

This is the third can of their spray paint that I have purchased that uses the trigger spray head. I have had zero issues using the same spray paint at a later date. No problems at all and it goes on very evenly even 6 months later.

 

[bagged89s10]

Thanks! Found it on their website. It's one of their Universal paints that I haven't used much except on a mailbox. I heard that you must use the entire can at once, as the tip gets fouled---since you can spray upside down, there's no way to clear the tip.



Have you had this experience with the Rust Oleum Universal?

I started using the regular rustoleum hammered or regular rustoleum because the universal cans end up clogging on me.

Nice work on that rock island!

 

[jrobb316]

Since the thread was resurrected, how did you get the Birtman Electric plate off? Thats a nice Rock Island, 574s seem to be somewhat plentiful so i'm sure you can find another eventually to put in reserve if it does give up the ghost.

Drives: The Morgan Milwaukee cannot be original to the ship, it must have been a replacement somewhere in the 80s/90s I would guess. That looks exactly like the current production model.