Prentiss #19 Vice color?

[reivertom]

Hello folks,
I got a real deal on an old model 19 Prentiss 3 1/2" swivel jaw vice a while back and I want to get it back close to original as I can. Some bubba rattle canned it all black and it looks like it was done by a 4 year old. He painted everything.....yes everything. My question is does anybody on here have a original model 19 they could show me or point me to one in a photo so I can get an idea? I would like to get as close as I can if I'm going to the trouble to restore it. Thanks, Tom

 

[larry4406]

To my knowledge they were "Japanned" which is a black lacquer process.

Attached is a catalog clip showing your 19. I'm sure other more knowledgeable folks will chime in.

 

[drivesitfar]

Reiv: here's my Prentiss 19.5 inch that is in its natural patina. like Larry says and shows in his nice catalog page some of the early vises had what they call a Japanning type treatment to their cast. i'm posting another old Reed 104 to show you another old vise from that era that has the same type look.

in the vise repair 101 thread one of our handier members McBrownie posts how he did the Japanning treatment on his Prentiss and here's the link. Look at his post in #653 of that thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4454162&highlight=japanning#post4454162

if you want to put up your vise's before and after pictures on that thread that would help others and it would be easier to find later for you since that thread is getting a lot of views and is usually at the top.

i'd probably wire wheel off the black paint which wouldn't take long and immediately put on a nice coat or two of Boiled linseed oil before it flash rusts. here's what my big Reed 4C looks like that was sandblasted before it had 3 coats of BLO put on it.

good luck

 

[Carla]

Hello folks,
I got a real deal on an old model 19 Prentiss 3 1/2" swivel jaw vice a while back and I want to get it back close to original as I can. Some bubba rattle canned it all black and it looks like it was done by a 4 year old. He painted everything.....yes everything. My question is does anybody on here have a original model 19 they could show me or point me to one in a photo so I can get an idea? I would like to get as close as I can if I'm going to the trouble to restore it. Thanks, Tom

It depends on the age of your Prentiss vise, as to what its original colour might have been. Could you do some close-up photos of your Prentiss, to help us make the best guess as to its vintage? There are some subtle 'style' details which evolved over time, which make a 'reasonable guess' possible.

As a basic generality...does yours have the ornate 'Prentiss' lettering of the older style? If so, it would have had a relatively thin coat of black paint.

At some point in time......and I might be able to make a close guess, based on the Prentiss adverts preserved in the old Columbian scrap-book material.....the Prentiss works omitted the fancy lettering, and painted their vises a medium grey, with a relatively low grade of enamel.

My own Prentiss no. 20, which was 'new old stock' when it was given to me in the late 1960's, is, probably, of 1940's vintage, and had a very thin coat of a medium grey paint, some of which had flaked off in the 20-something years it had lain dormant......or the solvent used to remove the cosmolene attacked the paint, too.....whichever, in any case its paint-work wasn't very high quality.

Whether black or grey, the paint-work was cheaply and quickly done, with some amount of filler in rough spots in the castings. This 'minimal' finish work was typical of the vise trade generally.

(there were some exceptions, to be sure......I have a very small....2" jaw width, opens 2-1/4"....early pattern Prentiss 'jewellers' vise' which has the castings quite nicely fettled and polished, and was fully nickel-plated, except the screw and nut. I don't know for any certainty, but would doubt that such a high finish was an option for their larger vises.)

cheers

Carla

 

[reivertom]

Thanks for the replies....As for the age, I thought the #19 was from the 20s thru the 30s. Did they make them later than that? If so, where is the info to compare the year models? It is interesting to know that the paint jobs we put on them now are better than the original ones even though we hold the old tools in high regard as far as quality. I guess "pretty" wasn't necessary, just functional when it came to vises. later, Tom

 

[WWIIjeep]

As for the age, I thought the #19 was from the 20s thru the 30s. Did they make them later than that?

Not much later than that, but a lot earlier than that.

Prentiss model no. 19 dates from 1900 (or perhaps even the 1890s) to the 1940s.

The earliest Prentiss vises had relatively plain markings. Then around the late-tens or early-teens, the markings got more ornate (what Carla called the older style, but it's really the middle style of markings for the swivel jaw models).

Early color was simply dull black, not japanned. Later color, probably beginning sometime in the 1930s, was light gray.

If you post a photo of yours, we might be able to give you a narrower date-range than 1900-1940s.

Prentiss model no. 18 through 23 swivel jaw vises, when found in good condition, which is rare, are the most desirable of all the Prentiss vise models.

 

[reivertom]

Not much later than that, but a lot earlier than that.

Prentiss model no. 19 dates from 1900 (or perhaps even the 1890s) to the 1940s.

The earliest Prentiss vises had relatively plain markings. Then around the late-tens or early-teens, the markings got more ornate (what Carla called the older style, but it's really the middle style of markings for the swivel jaw models).

Early color was simply dull black, not japanned. Later color, probably beginning sometime in the 1930s, was light gray.

If you post a photo of yours, we might be able to give you a narrower date-range than 1900-1940s.

Prentiss model no. 18 through 23 swivel jaw vises, when found in good condition, which is rare, are the most desirable of all the Prentiss vise models.

Well, I got me a light and a scraper and de-Bubba'd some of the recessed parts of the vise where I thought the original paint might still be visible. I found out that a couple generations of Bubbas must have "rattle canned" it, so I'm still not 100% sure which is the original coat. I found what looks like light grey on one area and black base coat on another. It is going to take more work to figure out which was first. It does not have the fancy writing embossed on it, it has simple block lettering with "Prentiss Vice Co." in an arch on top and "New York, NY" on the bottom in a straight line. In the middle it has " No.19". Does that mean it is an earlier one? thanks, Tom

 

[WWIIjeep]

It does not have the fancy writing embossed on it, it has simple block lettering with "Prentiss Vice Co." in an arch on top and "New York, NY" on the bottom in a straight line. In the middle it has " No.19". Does that mean it is an earlier one?[/SIZE]

That's the lettering style shown in a 1904 catalog listing of Prentiss vises.

In that era, it would have been painted dull black.

 

[dngrmse]

Prior to 1930? It had to be black. Perhaps Calvin's Dad from Calvin and Hobbes said it best, below is the explanation:

October 29, 1989 (from Scientific Progress Goes ‘Boink’, page 23 / The Indispensable Calvin and Hobbes, page 151)

Q. How come old photographs are always black and white? Didn’t they have color film back then?
A. Sure they did. In fact, those old photographs are in color. It’s just that the world was black and white then. The world didn’t turn color until sometime in the 1930s, and it was pretty grainy color for a while, too.

Q. But then why are old paintings in color?! If the world was black and white, wouldn’t artists have painted it that way?
A. Not necessarily. A lot of great artists were insane.

Q. But… But how could they have painted in color anyway? Wouldn’t their paints have been shades of gray back then?
A. Of course, but they turned colors like everything else did in the ’30s.

Q. So why didn’t old black and white photos turn color too?
A. Because they were color pictures of black and white, remember?

 

[thehorse13]

Here is my Prentiss after a refresh. I used Rustoleum Hammered Black paint on this and couldn't be happier.

 

[woody 73]

I don't have the #19 but my vise was black in color, coming from a color blind man that can not tell dark blue from dark black.

 

[reivertom]

That's the lettering style shown in a 1904 catalog listing of Prentiss vises.

In that era, it would have been painted dull black.

That's even better....I never thought it could possibly be over 100 years old. It is in pretty good shape considering the age. I had to use Kroil and a BFH to get the swivel to turn loose, but I finally got it off and cleaned it up so it works fine now. I just noticed that when I put the pin in the hole, the jaws don't meet all the way on one side. There is about a 1/16th gap on the edge of the pads. Is it possible that it could have been bent or sprung from over tightening or was it like that from the factory? thanks, Tom

 

[reivertom]

I don't have the #19 but my vise was black in color, coming from a color blind man that can not tell dark blue from dark black.

My wife tells me I'm color blind for the same reason........it never was a problem in my life until I had to start helping dress our daughters...then it was a horrible tragedy if I didn't match things perfect.

 

[WWIIjeep]

I just noticed that when I put the pin in the hole, the jaws don't meet all the way on one side. There is about a 1/16th gap on the edge of the pads. Is it possible that it could have been bent or sprung from over tightening or was it like that from the factory?

It may not have been "perfect" from the factory, but it would have been closer than 1/16".

I'd suggest checking the swivel jaw pin first, to make sure it's straight and not the cause of the misalignment. Also that there are no deformities on the pin or in the bore.

Also, check the jaw inserts, to make sure there are no burrs or deformities, both on the faces and on the backs.

Then try measuring the jaw faces when open a few inches, compared to closed all the way.

If the slide is bent, there's not much you can do about that easily. Adjusting the jaw faces and inserts would be a better fix. And, the advantage of the swivel jaw is that with the pin out, the jaws will automatically align themselves.

 

[reivertom]

Yeah...When I tear it apart I'll check for hardened gunk, rust, and spray paint as the cause. I know it is not the pin,, but it could be something in the pin's hole. The good thing is if it is actually bent or made wrong, I can just remove the pin and it will swivel into place as you said. I'm going to have to fabricate a lifting lever for the swivel base release. It is missing and there's just the pin with a hole . I have seen these in photos and I can get close with just simple tools.
Thanks, Tom

 

[scooternut]

Here is my Prentiss after a refresh. I used Rustoleum Hammered Black paint on this and couldn't be happier.

This Prentiss is awesome! Do it like this and just enjoy it.

 

[reivertom]

This Prentiss is awesome! Do it like this and just enjoy it.

Yeah.......I've already made a mental note of the Hammered Black spray paint. It looks cool on these old hunks of iron.

 

[thehorse13]

I used a sharpie paint pen to paint the raised lettering. Some folks here frown on the practice but I have had nothing but excellent results. Here is the Rock Island that I just finished up and used the same sharpie paint pen to do the raised lettering.

 

[NJVice]

I used a sharpie paint pen to paint the raised lettering. Some folks here frown on the practice but I have had nothing but excellent results. Here is the Rock Island that I just finished up and used the same sharpie paint pen to do the raised lettering.

How do i or where do i look to find age of rock Island vice # 574 model.

Paul

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[meatsis]

How do i or where do i look to find age of rock Island vice # 574 model.

Paul

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Theres usually a date stamp on top of the slide on the RI's. Close the vise all the way and look right behind the static body.

 

[thehorse13]

Meat is correct. Look on top of the slide and you'll see a date code like this - 9-44. Mine was made in September of 1944. I happen to know the life history of my vise as well. Turns out that it started life in a munitions plant in the Navy ship yard in Washington D.C. during WWII.

 

[paxtonm1520]

Any guesses as to the age of this one? I just bought it for $50. Fair deal?