Starting a Tool Collection.

[dogan]

I need help. I have been tasked with the job of "advising" my family on a list of tools to get my 16 year old nephew. For his birthday he is getting a 1980 280zx that is mechanical sound (my old project car), but he (and his family) have no real hand tools. I'm not looking for brands, just what you would consider the essential starter tools needed to work on a car.

Thanks for the help.

 

[kythri]

Benefit of the doubt version:

If you use the search function here for "basic hand tools" or "starter mechanic tools" or variants thereof, you should find what you're looking for - there's some very good posts already on this subject.

Suspicious because of all the recent new-member trolls version:

You have/had a "project car" but you don't know the essential tools needed to work on a car? What kind of project is/was this?

 

[dogan]

I know what I would use, but I just buy what I need if I did not have something, and let the car sit for the time it takes to get the tool.
I'm looking for a good list of "must' have tools from people who truly know what it takes to work on a car, not just a shady tree mechanic (myself). I'm looking at giving him the best options to start and finish a job without having to go buy new tools.
I have the change to get him started on something right, and don't want to take something he wants to do, and turn it into a nightmare.

 

[SJR033]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290054&highlight=craftsman+540

Read post #13.

 

[canuckian]

too vague of a request. without knowing what's right and wrong with the car and without knowing to what level your nephew may want to take the car, the list could be endless. Also, without knowing his mechanical abilities (what jobs would he'd tackle himself and what job he'd farm out to professionals) it's hard to list tools needed. If it was your project car, you'd know which sizes of sockets and wrenches are common on those and you'd likely also know of any specialty tools that may be particular to those cars.

also, if missing a particular tool and having to buy it would be considered a nightmare, maybe a 1980 280ZX project car isn't the right car for your nephew.

**edit**
but for a complete basic set, the link in the post above mine is a good starting point for sure

 

[hangfirew8]

Start with 3 Metric socket sets 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2, a good no-skip set of Metric combination wrenches, Vice Grips and pliers, some JIS phillips-like screwdrivers, and then add everything else from there only as needed.

No point in buying suspension tools and then needing to do a cooling system pressure test, etc. For 1980 Datsun specialty tools, you are better off asking on a Nissan forum.

 

[sberry]

This gets way too many opinions to be of much use. The 16 yr old nephew is a poster case for thumbing thru the Sears sale flier and picking up a starter set. The 309 piece is super good and can be has for 250 or less and there might be even better sales.
These sets are fairly well thought out, they are not the end but are at disposable pricing and great to get your feet under yourself fast. It does not matter if its a "lifetime" heirloom tool. It doesn't need to be insured.
Most are hardline sockets and wrenches and there should be a few things added. A broad screwdriver set, today even flea mkt ones are really good, a 20OZ straight claw hammer, 6 and 10R vise grips straight jaw and 11R clamp as well as one big C clamp.
A guy could get 2 channelocks too, 440 and 430. HF 1/4 drive bit set with torx, Allens etc and while there get a 1/2 breaker bar and a couple small ratchet straps. Go to Walmart and get a couple Stanley common retracto razor knives and pack of blades and 3 pack of AV snips and maybe a 4th, hi lev red one. 8 inch dykes and number 9 side cutters, Menards and Lowes got clones for these that are good about 1/2 the cost of a Klein and import 18 inch pipe wrench. Tape measure. Combination square. some kind of a box to toss it in.

 

[LB-1911]

I need help.

I have been tasked with the job of "advising" my family on a list of tools to get my 16 year old nephew.

For his birthday he is getting a 1980 280zx that is mechanical sound (my old project car), but he (and his family) have no real hand tools.

I'm not looking for brands, just what you would consider the essential starter tools needed to work on a car.

Thanks for the help.

Should be pretty obvious Metric wrenches and sockets.

extendable magnets - mechanical fingers

A 1980 280zx repair manual.
http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/108

 

[hangfirew8]

Don't bother with Haynes: http://www.nicoclub.com/datsun-service-manuals

 

[sberry]

I agree with everyone above that recommends the slow approach and while it seems the immediate task at hand is the car most of us suggest tools really common to a lot of the worlds work and considering the cost it can be had for today well worth accumulating,
Mechanic named John spent like 5K and bought everything in sight they had to outfit a master shop, was almost too funny but for it actually worked.
Today for less than 800 and easily a grand could buy all new in a day. I bought my 2nd set from Sears in 81, everything they had in the master set for 3500, you can get it for less than that today. It was a blanket move for me then, a hobby type does not need it and neither do a lot of masters.
One of my Buds had own small garage, had 1 theft from car of a long time set and started over with 100$ box with a handful of Cman, later on treated himself to a couple small SK service sets from the sales flier and worked 35 years with a grand in hand tools, had everything he needed, kept 100$ in his pocket and when something come along used he liked it was a snag.
Bought a few specialty sockets as needed from the Lisle rack, a few real common items, brake flare set, had auto parts store deliver it. You can buy most things as needed for less than 50 today. If he goes to work in a front end and brake shop then there is a place for 500$ tool and if he wants to earn for a 300$ ratchet go for it but a project car gives a little time and place to accumulate some stuff that really does most of the worlds work.

 

[kythri]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290054&highlight=craftsman+540

Read post #13.

Horrible advice.

 

[woody 73]

Don't bother with Haynes: http://www.nicoclub.com/datsun-service-manuals

hangfirew8 thank you for that link very informative

 

[Gotcha640]

Whatever tools you get him, either get him a couple small tool boxes, or tool bags. There have been people here and in real life that get their teens full size rolling boxes. That doesn't make sense to me.

I've moved 14 times since I moved out of my parents house 10 years ago, and I've hauled my own stuff every time. If he has to rent a trailer for every move, college, apartments, girlfriends, new jobs, stuff will get left behind or sold. I keep a 2000 BMW 540 on the road with the contents of two 15" tool bags and the jack it came with. You don't need a shop full of tools, you need YouTube and a parking space.

 

[sberry]

This is the ideal forum question, its been over before and most of us give the same answers but its complex and no easy way to refine it, serious writers could boil it down but I whiz thru it.
You wont get everything but some of the suggestions end up with enough stuff to work ones way around most problems not requiring grinder torch or welder. I am a super advocate for the cheaper sets to start for a couple of reasons but in the end a lot of the pieces find a drawer and are never used, it can be a handful of trinkets or a handful of gems, buy a nice piece or 2 where the rubber hits the road and keep the rest just in case.
I have some old stuff but besides me does anyone in the modern world use a 11/32 and even I can live with old nut driver and ign wrench, I must have a dozen as every set comes with one. A China one will work and I don't need to park 40$ a piece in every flavor in that size, its one thing to pay HF or Sears prices for unused equipment but no need to park cash that depreciates.
As for the tool itself, I doubt a homeowner hobby type can wear out a set of those 10$ dykes and if they can who cares what its worth in 30 years. Let the kid beat the **** out of it now, let him replace it 10 yrs from now and while I still got my hi dollar ones they are well worn where the new is noticeable and work a lot better. Bought some new strippers, same deal.

 

[sberry]

Adam gives great advice for those wanting to start a custom collection, we have slight different views of the demands. Mine is for uncle to 16 yr old who may or may not carry thru, may lose it, may use it. I am of the opinion if it didn't cost much there is little risk, it makes it worthy of some investment that has a huge potential for return, a great learning curve.
He can become a collector at any time, user first, if its easy and affordable that's way more likely to happen.

 

[Adam.C]

I agree with what's been said here. Really tough to recommend tools for a beginner, let alone a 16yr old beginner.

Just a quibble or two with the "just in time" approach (i.e. buy tools as you need them).

When you buy tools as you need them, you tend to buy tools you can source quickly. And that can lead to paying more for tools and getting lower quality. I'm sure we've all done this. Sears and HF bank on it. Advance Auto, Napa, and Pep Boys too.

If you can predict what you might need, you can shop more intelligently, wait for sales, search ebay and GJ for months etc. My experience having bought a good deal of Snap On stuff on ebay is that Snap On tools sell for literally ANY amount of money on ebay. Completed auction prices range from over retail, to "it must have been stolen". I suspect part of the reason the prices can go so high is that guys shop on ebay to fulfill immediate needs. Low prices for like new are usually 50% of retail on average, but I've gotten great deals on stuff (like a GF80 i think i paid $25 shipped).

The other part, I don't recall discussing in my post above is: Do we more seasoned guys recommend starter tools? Or do we recommend getting the tools we will all likely end up with, right from the get go. In my post I recall recommending some truck tools. Not for every tool mind you, but a few silver bullets where they matter most. But this fails to appreciate that all of us most pay our dues, break a few tools and bust a few knuckles.

If we choose the latter, I still think some amount of consideration is inorder. The obvious choice would be to go to HF and buy one of everything (Like MechanicNamedJohn did). But you could do a bit better cost-wise by just getting some stuff.

Liek to hear others' opinions of "starter tools". Regardless, I think you are better off, (regardless of brands) not buying a 100pc set. Invariably they contain tools you don't need. The worst of all are the Snap On mechanics sets that include $40 flashlights and $60 ball peen hammers (kidding about the prices but not the tools).

 

[sberry]

There seems to be a fear of buying tools twice that drives the upscale market and it really doesn't make sense mathematically. If you buy him a Sears set which cost 50 cents a piece and a year later down the line he buys a premium one at some screaming deal for 15 a piece how mush would a guy really be shoving off in to the trash can? Couldn't even pay the sales tax on the new one.
We see endless worry on the 5$ worth of stuff about warranty so I will buy a 25$ one.
I haven't heard of anyone busting one from that 25$ 1/2 Stanley set from Walmart, even a mid level brand would cost 150, worst case scenerio is I lost 25,. somehow people seem to feel they lost 150 in here somehow???? While that doesn't make sense its the truth, or if they got 25 off the 150 its somehow a better value than the 25$ set or it devalues it a lot, just changes the pot odds a little, only when you pay within 25 of what you could resell it for does it make mathematical sense and then there is what you must come up with upfront of needs to be financed.
Rarely does anyone go upside down buying a handful of cheap tools they have a little use for.

 

[hangfirew8]

I agree, but if it is truly a project car, he should be able to anticipate needs and shop around first.

-HF

 

[dogan]

To start with, Thanks for the advice!

I used this as a starting point. A lot of good advice that I would have never found.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290054&highlight=craftsman+540

Read post #13.

I also found this from ken w in another thread
"

My rule of thumb is 1/4" drive for most interior work other than seat belts and seats. 3/8" drive for most under hood york and 1/2" for under car work.

As far a quality goes, I'm not going to get him better tools than I have

For now just looking at Harbor Fright Pro line. easy to get, and always on sale. I will let him know this are low end tools, and much better stuff is out there.
IF he stays with it, then he (or his folks) can get better tools, but the HF stuff is good enough to see if he likes getting his hands dirty.

Here is what I am looking at so far.

3/8 in. Drive Composite Quick-Release Ratchet
1/2 in. Drive Composite Ratchet
(not going to get 1/4 stuff to save a little money)

1/2 in. Drive Click Type Torque Wrench

10 Pc 3/8 in. Drive Metric High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 1/2 in. Drive Metric High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 3/8 in. Drive SAE High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 1/2 in. Drive SAE High Visibility Socket Set
4 Pc 1/2 in. Drive Quick-Release Extension Bar Set

2--22 Pc Raised Panel SAE & Metric Combination Wrench Set

32 Pc Screwdriver Set

2 lb. Rubber Mallet
6 in. Magnetic Parts Holder
4 Pc Heavy Duty Pry Bar Set
11 in. Tool Bag

 

[HanShotFirst]

I think if you have no tools at all, then your immediate concern is quantity, not quality (within reason of course). Craigslist and yard sales is the way to go to find good ole “Made in USA” stuff. Made in US Craftsman stuff is everywhere and dirt cheap at yard sales. Just a month ago I picked up a set of 7 US made Craftsman metric wrenches, a 12” long ½” extension, and a US made steel portable tool box (with a dent, but otherwise great condition), for my 12 year old son, and I paid $10.00. For new stuff I can whole heartedly recommend Harbor Freight’s Pittsburgh Professional ratchets and sockets. Their sockets and ratchets are excellent quality and you have to buy tool truck to get better quality sockets and ratchets.

For now he needs the basics, all the sockets you can get him. Focus your purchasing on metric first, SAE second. Make sure to get some long extensions and swivels for each drive (1/4” 3/8” ½”). Extensions are a life saver and a back saver.

For combination wrenches I can only say buy the best you can possibly afford. It’s awfully hard to justify brand new Snap On right off the bat for someone who isn’t going to be a pro wrench (it’s even hard for pro’s to justify). Used US Craftsman is a good start, but I’d be looking to upgrade at some point. US made Craftsman wrenches are dimensionally accurate, but they’re not super strong wrenches. If you’re serious about wrenching you’ll want some first rate combination wrenches. Snap On Flank Drive and Wright’s Wrightgrip are the two best combination wrenches that money can buy; period. No not everyone needs them, but they are the absolute top rung, and worth consideration if you’re going to be serious about wrenching…they are freaking AWESOME. I have some old Craftsman Professional wrenches that were made by SK back in the late ‘80’s or early ‘90’s (they’re SK long pattern Superkrome). They are easily the equal of a Snap On from that era (which means they’re DAMN good), but not the equal of a Flank Drive or Wrightgrip. Regardless, I think they’re freaking awesome and I personally see no need to upgrade, but if I were ever to upgrade, it would be a Wrightgrip or Flankdrive, that’s for sure.

Craftsman screwdrivers can be found on CL, ebay, or yard sales for next to nothing; so worth it. Also look for older Craftsman pliers, and Channelock brand adjustable pliers. There’s your basics.

 

[HanShotFirst]

You know this caused me to think back to when I was in my late teens to early 20's. I did a LOT of wrenching back then because I was dirt poor. I don't know how I did it, but I did every job with a portable tool box full of Craftsman tools; that's all I had. It's so funny how spoiled we get, anytime I'm working at the track from my portable tool box I get frustrated because I always seem to need something that's not in there.

 

[Adam.C]

Horrible advice.

And your advice is?.......Oh right, Brian. You don't have any advice, you just troll everything I post. Go back to your video games then. The grown-ups are talking. And don't bother responding, I just set you to ignore since you add nothing of value. And I just don't give a **** about your clever tags. I don't even know or care what a tag is.

I'm here because fixing stuff has been my entire life. I used to fix stuff because I was poor and I wanted my stuff to be nice. Then I fixed stuff to help my family, then my neighbors, and my community. Now I see that fixing stuff is like a life philosophy- karmically good. Wish I could fix our relationship but I'm hereby giving up on you. You enjoy being nasty. And I can't fix that for you.

BTW, you and I have a lot in common. I wish I could pick your brain about a couple things.

 

[Adam.C]

To start with, Thanks for the advice!

I used this as a starting point. A lot of good advice that I would have never found.



I also found this from ken w in another thread
"


As far a quality goes, I'm not going to get him better tools than I have

For now just looking at Harbor Fright Pro line. easy to get, and always on sale. I will let him know this are low end tools, and much better stuff is out there.
IF he stays with it, then he (or his folks) can get better tools, but the HF stuff is good enough to see if he likes getting his hands dirty.

Here is what I am looking at so far.

3/8 in. Drive Composite Quick-Release Ratchet
1/2 in. Drive Composite Ratchet
(not going to get 1/4 stuff to save a little money)

1/2 in. Drive Click Type Torque Wrench

10 Pc 3/8 in. Drive Metric High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 1/2 in. Drive Metric High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 3/8 in. Drive SAE High Visibility Socket Set
10 Pc 1/2 in. Drive SAE High Visibility Socket Set
4 Pc 1/2 in. Drive Quick-Release Extension Bar Set

2--22 Pc Raised Panel SAE & Metric Combination Wrench Set

32 Pc Screwdriver Set

2 lb. Rubber Mallet
6 in. Magnetic Parts Holder
4 Pc Heavy Duty Pry Bar Set
11 in. Tool Bag

Couple revisions from me:
1) Skip those ratchets. Get him the longest ratchets HF makes in both drives. If they are long and get in his way, let him earn the money to pay for the convenience of a short ratchet. Remember, job one is to break it free. At 16, he may lack the strength to crack some stuff free with a std length ratchet. (I'm thinking he might do a brake job- more likely he'll want to install a kick *** stereo tho).

2) Substitute impacts for the 1/2" drive chrome. There's not much need for 1/2" chrome. Most of us use impacts when the hardware gets that big. That's one less set of tools he'll need later.

3) Skip SAE sized tools.

4) Don't need a huge screwdriver set. Just a couple phillips, a few straights, stubbies, and I would look into something with interchangeable tips he can fit hex and torx into, tho I doubt he'll encounter torx on this vehicle (but maybe the sub woofer kit he buys will have mounting plates with allen screws).

5) 10-19mm will be fine for this vehicle for wrenches. Or, even better, 10, 12,14, 17, 19mm.

6) What about a safe jack? Stands? I think I'd start there. Safety glasses? Han will be happy to know my kids enjoy shooting air rifles but I make them treat them like firearms and ALWAYS wear eye protection. Good to give them some discipline now. I learned to shoot in the military and still have a few bad habits.

7) When i was young (now 50), fixing up a car meant suping up the engine, increasing horsepower. If you were really cool, you got into rear ends. Today, motorhead kids install lights under the car, lower it, and put in hifi stereos and sometimes TVs, computers and such. Maybe what this kid will really need are panel poppers and a multimeter!

 

[HanShotFirst]

6) What about a safe jack? I think I'd start there? Safety glasses? Han will be happy to know my kids enjoy shooting air rifles but I make them treat them like firearms and ALWAYS wear eye protection. Good to give them some discipline now. I learned to shoot in the military and still have a few bad habits.

Adam,

Eye protection is NEVER a bad idea. When something happens with a firearm, 9 times out of 10 it’s the eyes that get hurt. People take everything for granted, and seem to forget that a firearm is a device for direction an explosion. Rarely do things go wrong, but when they do it’s the eyes that get hit because you have to raise the gun to eye level to shoot what you want to hit. Believe it or not, they actually engineer in the protection of the shooter if there’s some sort of a catastrophic failure, and if the shooter is wearing eye protection, rarely is there any serious injury or permanent damage when a gun blows up.

And taking the same precaution when shooting air guns is just smart. It’s not the gun you’re protecting against, but BB’s and Pellets are notorious for bouncing back at the shooter…so BRAVO for doing the smart thing.

Oh, and good advice on the tools

 

[Adam.C]

Adam,

Eye protection is NEVER a bad idea. When something happens with a firearm, 9 times out of 10 it’s the eyes that get hurt. People take everything for granted, and seem to forget that a firearm is a device for direction an explosion. Rarely do things go wrong, but when they do it’s the eyes that get hit because you have to raise the gun to eye level to shoot what you want to hit. Believe it or not, they actually engineer in the protection of the shooter if there’s some sort of a catastrophic failure, and if the shooter is wearing eye protection, rarely is there any serious injury or permanent damage when a gun blows up.

And taking the same precaution when shooting air guns is just smart. It’s not the gun you’re protecting against, but BB’s and Pellets are notorious for bouncing back at the shooter…so BRAVO for doing the smart thing.

Oh, and good advice on the tools

Sorry for the digression, but hopefully we can bring this back on point:

I remember when we didn't wear seat belts. I remember being so little, I could sleep in the back of the station wagon on a long trip. Now, we don't back out of the drive way without EVERYONE having their seat belts on. Funny how such things just become habit.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to spend some time with this 16yr old. Give him tools, but give him some pointers about how to work safe and work smart. When I was young I knew a guy who died when his car fell on him. I never jacked a car the same after that. One thing I used to do was sweep the area I would jack the car on really thoroughly. I felt if something were to give way and I needed to get out in a hurry, last thing I needed was a stone or screw stopping the wheel of my creeper, preventing my escape. In 30 years, its never once come to that, but I still sweep.