Building permits and county bull sh@t

[Ironhorse74]

I have been trying to play by the rules but am becoming increasingly more fustrated. I had budgeted 1600.00 for the permit. That is about what the permit will cost but am having to jump through hoops that I think are increasingly more arduous. Maybe I am being unreasonable. Overall I think it would be a more honest process if they told me to go see Guido in the alley and bring cash.

So first is a sanitation permit. I am having to get my well tested for 110.00 dollars and my septic system inspected for 120.00 dollars and having to pay 240.00 dollars for a sanitation permit. This is for a building with no plumbing.

Four years ago I had my property logged. This was mostly to cut the timber and undergrowth back from the house so we have a defensible perimeter in case of forest fire. When we logged we spent 100.00 dollars on a Washington State DNR permit. There was an optipn to get a county permit for 1500.00. During the permit process we found out that the county forester had a six year hold on our property. However for 718.00 dollars we can make this go away.

So my question is, am I being a whiney *****? Or should I go down to the county commisiomers meeting and give them a piece of my mind? Fully knowing that will make things more difficult for myself.

Maybe something in between?

Brad

 

[why worry]

I see you're from Washington, do you remember the Bee place in the Columbia Gorge? They received their permits from Skamania county if I recall correctly. Then got busted by Friends of the Gorge after they had built most of the house(Tyvek on the house brought it to everybody's attention).If I recall correctly they ended up having to modify their house after a long legal battle. Almost didn't get it done. Just saying be very careful in the state of Washington.
Dave

 

[Firemech86]

If your only paying 1600 in permits count yourself lucky. My 5400sqft shop is on hold because the county requires 2 different environmental studies, one for Kit Fox (which have not been seen in 40+ years in this county) and another for Blue Amole (a flower that is worthless and grows everywhere). Both will cost 6-18k per month, not to last more than one year.
The kicker is that I am building inside the footprint of a 100 year old barn that fell down in a wind storm last year...
Oh, and power is 100' away, but pg&e wants the world to just drop power to the ground. And refused to talk about 3 phase, that is on the pole already, but they want me to buy a transformer for the single phase drop.
Thieves.

 

[bdk1976]

Don't get me started...it's all about money and control these days. A far cry from what it should be.

 

[ATC]

In today's world...it's almost better to build it and ask for forgiveness, than it is to go through the legal fees, permission, and useless taxes and studies that just line the pockets of those sitting on the board.

We built our garage about 12-ish years ago while we remodeled part of the house. Contractors did the work. They never pulled a permit for the garage or work on the house

 

[Jinks]

Location, location, location. Years ago we lived in Duval county Florida. ANYTHING a city/county/government employee got involved in resulted in being insulted & turned down while trying to take money out of your pocket. The thought of dealing with government employees made strong men weak in the knees.

About 15 years ago we moved to Volusia county Florida. The taxes are higher, but we get something for them. County employees were actually helpful & friendly when we applied for variances to remodel our home. Those of you still dealing with government by the greedy have my heart felt sympathy.

 

[A_Pmech]

Time to move.

There are still parts of this country where we value our freedom to do what we want with OUR land. Find an unincorporated county. I could build a sky scraper in my back yard and all I need is a septic permit. $60 and a handshake.

 

[aka Larry]

My 5400sqft shop is on hold because the county requires 2 different environmental studies, one for Kit Fox which have not been seen in 40+ years in this county

We have a multi-million dollar hotel project being held up at work right now because of one long-earred bat someone saw in this area 50+ years ago.

 

[MagKarl]

I feel your pain. My pole barn permit was about $2000, and I had a heck of a time getting it because there is an eagle's nest on my neighbor's place several hundred yards away. No I'm not kidding. I had all my ducks lined up, engineer stamped plans, etc., and the only thing in the way was waiting on somebody from the county office in Olympia to decide whether or not the eagles would approve my permit. Crazy. Took 3 weeks of calling every day and finally going down there and pushing it, they said normally takes 10-12 weeks.

 

[stikman56]

I just went through it in Amboy Washington to build a home and shop. It's a very tough process and my willingness to never give up is about the only thing that got me through it. What frustrated me the most is their unwillingness to explain what they want and that everyone down there is on a different page. The process itself isn't so bad if you know what they want before you go. They are also changing codes all the time, like the wind speed that was raised from 110 to 135 MPH. To top this off our builder screwed up the plans about 5 times which made more trips down there than I should have ever had to do. I just smiled and gave them what they wanted until I got the permits. Make waves, and I figured good luck ever getting what I needed.

 

[engineer2]

Wow, some of you have it bad. I got a notice from the village about repairing my fence and had to get a $58 permit. They reminded me that ANY repair to your home requires a permit, no matter how minor. Someday I'm going to apply for a permit to drive in a loose nail and see what they say.

It's essentially a double tax. They get you for the permit and they report the improvement to the county and your property taxes go up forever. My deck was built 20 years ago at a cost of $2000 resulting in my property taxes going up about $75 a year, which increases about 3 to 6% a year. In 20 years I've paid about $2300 in taxes on a $2000 deck.

 

[billspit]

Welcome to the land of liberals and treehuggers. Enjoy it.

 

[dodgejunkie]

In 2000 I was developing some property for a well off Gent who just got tired of jumping through hoops for the city and county. He felt that he was being unfairly scrutinized. He owned an industrial park, with about 30 properties he rented to small/medium sized service companies (ie. HVAC, auto body and such). He paid for everything including putting the street in. He built the units but the city/county would not let him put a parking area, and nobody could park on the street. It went on for about a year when he asked what I could do? I called an excavator I knew, told him what we wanted and that I'd not be pulling permits. It was all completed from a Friday night to Saturday night.

The city/county called me up and I met them at the property. They had some choice words but handed me a signed permit, and a stamped approval of final inspection all at the same time.

I agree with ATC... It's easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission these days.

 

[aka Larry]

I called an excavator I knew, told him what we wanted and that I'd not be pulling permits. It was all completed from a Friday night to Saturday night.

So you built an underground parking lot?

That wouldn't fly around here. You are allowed a certain impervious area on your property, and are charged for the storm water run-off accordingly.

That said, you couldn't build a building without adequate parking for the use either, so they kind of go hand in hand.

 

[billspit]

One thing you DO NOT want to fork around with is wetland violations. The fines can be swift and large. And then you get to do restoration.

 

[SALIV8]

everything went great in the country when I put up my pole barn. Pretty smooth overall, surprisingly.

when I had my final building inspection completed, the inspector came a day earlier than what was scheduled. luckily I took off work and was up there to let him in. He was measuring setbacks from the street by the time i get out there to greet him.

I asked him whats up and that I thought he just needed to get inside. He said he will as soon as hes done measuring. His boss drove by and told him that my building was too close to the street and to double check this now, after the complete building was up. What was weird was this inspector was the same guy that approved the footings and just walked (paced) off the setbacks, and never actually measured. He even said I remember this one...

I understand basic requirements but dont approve of everything in the beginning and throughout the phases, then once the entire bldg is up double check something that should have been done at the first stage!!

I would have been super pissed at this clown if I hadnt double and triple checked setback measurements myself before the project even started.

 

[Orange65]

With that kind of costs and headache, I wouldn't build anything myself. I am glad that I don't have to deal with that. I don't think you are out of line to complain- it sounds silly. But I don't think that complaining will do much.

 

[rippered]

Why not run for elected office and do something about it ?

 

[dodgejunkie]

So you built an underground parking lot?

That wouldn't fly around here. You are allowed a certain impervious area on your property, and are charged for the storm water run-off accordingly.

That said, you couldn't build a building without adequate parking for the use either, so they kind of go hand in hand.

To be fair his companies name was __________ Excavating and paving!

We had already had all the plans and civil engineering in hand, so it wasn't like we just graded everything flat and rolled out blacktop. Storm water was not an issue because we had built an over sized retention pond for future expansion.

My point being they were just jerking him around because he was a successful business man, and he probably pissed someone off that had a weee bit of authority.

 

[Koken]

I put a wood fence (100' ea. side) down each side of my property (front and back were already fenced) and paid $300.00 for a fence permit. When I asked for a breakdown of costs, building officials got nasty. Not only were there environmental costs, around $50.00 went to a slush fund for enforcement of illegal contractors. It is all about the $$$$$.

 

[PeterT]

Not that it helps your situation, but my county is unzoned. The township keeps putting a levy up every few years to try and change that, apparently it just drives them nuts they can't tell people what they can and can't do on their own property.

 

[DekeT]

Welcome to the land of liberals and treehuggers. Enjoy it.

I do enjoy it. Thank you very much for your support.


AND, don't forget those "everybody wins" school intellectuals.

 

[Corsair4360]

Unfortunately there is good and bad with all the zoning and permits nonsense. I am in the middle of getting a right of way vacated, it is painful beyond belief. Next comes the building permit, it will be painful since the city has decided in their infinite wisdom that only one driveway entrance is permitted, thankfully the city engineer said that can be worked around.

Take another case, a now dead acquaintance. He wanted to put up a shop, in a field that was part of his rural lot. Neighbors whined, bitched and moaned. So he told them, you have a choice, either approve the shop or I am going to put in a hog raising barn and fill it with pigs. The permit was approved right away.

Unfortunately the difference seems to be the people at the government agency you have to work with. One guy here, I never want to meet, I am afraid that he would suffer bodily harm, another has been good to work with.

 

[ctfjr]

I think the problems arise because too many of these 'public officials' forget who they are working for and take themselves a wee bit too seriously.

Several years ago I saw in our local paper an article about a repair bill at one of the elementary schools (where my kids attended). As the repairs related to the heating system - something I am very familiar with - I went to the board of ed business office and politely asked to see the invoices for the repair. The old bitty behind the counter looked down her nose at me and asked, "Who are you?". I looked at her and simply said, "I'm nobody, but I'm nobody a taxpayer and I want to see those invoices.". She hustled into the business manager's office and he emerged a few seconds later explaining it would take a little while for them to get them and suggested we meet for coffee the next morning.

The short of it is he produced all the documents at coffee and tried to grill me as to why I wanted them, which I declined to tell him. You'd think I was asking for his wallet.

 

[Ironhorse74]

I just went through it in Amboy Washington to build a home and shop. It's a very tough process and my willingness to never give up is about the only thing that got me through it. What frustrated me the most is their unwillingness to explain what they want and that everyone down there is on a different page. The process itself isn't so bad if you know what they want before you go. They are also changing codes all the time, like the wind speed that was raised from 110 to 135 MPH. To top this off our builder screwed up the plans about 5 times which made more trips down there than I should have ever had to do. I just smiled and gave them what they wanted until I got the permits. Make waves, and I figured good luck ever getting what I needed.

We are neighbors. Fargher Lake here. I think I will remain silent. Anything I might say may incriminate me.

Brad

 

[ExxWhy]

I am more thankful for where I live every time I read something like this. A few years ago the county wanted to add the townships into a countywide inspection authority and the townships wanted nothing to do with it. We have a local zoning board, if it's residential (garage, shop, barn) or agricultural and on your property, it's good to go. $50

 

[egdede]

Wow, some of you have it bad. I got a notice from the village about repairing my fence and had to get a $58 permit. They reminded me that ANY repair to your home requires a permit, no matter how minor. Someday I'm going to apply for a permit to drive in a loose nail and see what they say.

It's essentially a double tax. They get you for the permit and they report the improvement to the county and your property taxes go up forever. My deck was built 20 years ago at a cost of $2000 resulting in my property taxes going up about $75 a year, which increases about 3 to 6% a year. In 20 years I've paid about $2300 in taxes on a $2000 deck.

Welcome to the land of liberals and treehuggers. Enjoy it.

Well. here in CA property taxes are fixed. Though an improvement can raise the rate, there won't be any annual increases.

Google 'prop 13'. While a conservative was responsible for the initiative, it was the liberal people of CA who made Proposition 13 the law!!!

 

[Firemech86]

Well. here in CA property taxes are fixed. Though an improvement can raise the rate, there won't be any annual increases.

Google 'prop 13'. While a conservative was responsible for the initiative, it was the liberal people of CA who made Proposition 13 the law!!!

In my experience, most of California is conservative, outside of LA, SF, and Sac. Please do not label us all one way because the ones with the money/power in this state are liberal.

 

[bgarrett]

We have way too much government interference in our lives. At every level.

 

[vmusch]

We all are guilty of allowing it to happen. I am guilty just as most. How many Government Meetings are only attended by a few.........we have turned into Sheep.

 

[bgarrett]

We all are guilty of allowing it to happen. I am guilty just as most. How many Government Meetings are only attended by a few.........we have turned into Sheep.

Thats right. It is YOUR fault and MINE too.

 

[bmxdad]

While some may moan about all these jumps and hurtles they may need to go through, can you imagine what some locations would look like if you did have full control of what you could do on your property? It would be a mess, especially in a built up rural location ... septic permit? Why, I'll just drop it in this hole till I need to dig another one. Setbacks? Fu'k my neighbor, I'm putting my two story shop right on the line. Electrical permit? 14/3 is all I need. If I can hook a 187 amp welder to it, it should be good for anything.

While some permitting may be a little out of control, I'd rather deal with that then the mess of no control.

Like this:

 

[DekeT]

Like a lot of problems in America, the best answer is somewhere in the middle. Too many people are radicalized into none thinking "positions" on issues and even far more people are in the don't know/care.

A moderate amount rules with low cost fees would encourage most people to participate and be aware of how your development affects others. Is that too much to ask for in a sort of civilized society?

Problem is very few bother to participate in local government. Just a big ***** after the fact.

 

[CJ7VFR]

While some permitting may be a little out of control, I'd rather deal with that then the mess of no control.

Like this:

What is wrong with this picture? I can clearly see some conduit in there!

Jim

 

[My Old Tools]

Location, location, locatkion....

 

[MoparTrucks]

Like a lot of problems in America, the best answer is somewhere in the middle. Too many people are radicalized into none thinking "positions" on issues and even far more people are in the don't know/care.

A moderate amount rules with low cost fees would encourage most people to participate and be aware of how your development affects others. Is that too much to ask for in a sort of civilized society?

Problem is very few bother to participate in local government. Just a big ***** after the fact.

I pretty much agree with that assessment but people like CJ7VFR have been conditioned to accept that they need big brother to watch over them. Thats not a slap against him, I see that from my own family members who cannot imagine living where there isnt strict zoning, and HOA, and plenty of restrictions "lest the neighbors do something like paint their front door a non approved color". I think a lot of people actually like these restrictions and so they live in those areas.

I was stationed in Alaska when I retired and had considered buying a homestead there (MATSU Valley) but they started getting very restrictive as the population boomed and it became increasingly clear that the last frontier was being pushed further out into the bush than I cared to live.

My farm now is in an unincorporated county, we are zoned AG for the whole county and there is no building permits or restrictions other than Federally mandated septic and I like that because I am retired and never plan on leaving. When I built my pole barn shop I picked out a spot and built it; no permits, not review, just built it. Once it was done the tax lady noticed it and added it to our tax bill...$15 extra a year because it has a concrete floor...would have only been $10 with a dirt floor.

However, there is a down side. Many mortgage companies will not finance in unzoned or AG areas and your limited to USDA backed loans or higher rates. If you dont own a chunk of property you could very well end up with a 2 story multi colored shop built right on your property line and if you buy a 1938 farm house like mine you better be handy because your going to have to undo 70+ years of hackery.

I can see it from both sides. I like not being told what I can do on my own property and I own enough land not to be able to see or hear my neighbors but if I lived in a neighborhood where I could hear the neighbor flush his toilet when I was in the yard I might be more inclined to want some restrictions on what happens next door.

 

[thool]

I have no problem with permits, provided it is clear when they are needed, the cost and effort to file is reasonable, and enforcement is uniform. I would wager that most taxpayers would never themselves have to file one, so they are not there with torches at pitchforks at the committee meetings, making the few of us that do find issue look like a bunch of whiners.

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk

 

[Jackfre]

I just finished the total house remodel as well as just getting the final on the shop. Yes, it is a giant pita to deal with, but you are "in the system" and have to deal with it. I did my projects as an "owner/builder". There were assorted fees for schools and fire. Both worthwhile and I paid them without complaint. I did set up a meeting with the head of the Building Inspection folks before starting to understand the whole set-up. I didn't get any special treatment, but I met all the folks in the dept. I had one inspector who was...problematic and I did not hesitate to request that he not darken my doorstep again. He didn't last long in the County,based upon his sparkling personality.

Having been in the system for a couple years I found it best to stay calm and deal with it. There are always fees here and there. It is a part of the process. The one question I would ask is what the outcomes of a well and septic inspection are and see if they can be recinded. I have no plumbing in the shop and did not have to do this, but my shop is 90' away from the house. If it is a pencil whipped fee collection deal then good. If not, I'd want to know the limits. It will do no good and likely do a lot of harm to the project if you go in roaring and boring.

Many years ago I got in a jam with the IRS. It was all horse****, but you are really in the system with these...people? I kinda let go and threw one of their computers out the fourth story window. It didn't hit anyone but did land on the hood of a police cruiser. It didn't go well. In retrospect, it may not have been the stupidest thing I have done, but it is close. Your choice, but don't be me!

 

[CJ7VFR]

I pretty much agree with that assessment but people like CJ7VFR have been conditioned to accept that they need big brother to watch over them. Thats not a slap against him, I see that from my own family members who cannot imagine living where there isnt strict zoning, and HOA, and plenty of restrictions "lest the neighbors do something like paint their front door a non approved color". I think a lot of people actually like these restrictions and so they live in those areas

Huh? My comment was meant as sarcasm. That picture is a mess.

I have not been conditioned or anything else for that matter. That picture shows why there are rules in place to keep people from killing themselves, or worse, killing someone else.

I may not follow the rules all the time, but rules are in place for a reason, and I try to follow what makes sense and what will help keep me and my family from being killed in a fire because some ****** didn't follow a simple code that would have kept a catastrophe from happening in the first place!

Also, I do not live in any type of HOA. Why would you make that up? I don't know you, nor do you know me. I live in a regular neighborhood, just like the one you described where you live, but with homes on 1 acre lots, and both myself and my neighbors can paint their front doors any color they want, just like you can.

Before you go and tell other people what I am like, and claim to know how and where I live, and what I am conditioned to do, you should find out about me first, and ask me.

I do not know you, nor would I ever make any judgements based solely on what you happen to write on an internet forum like this, and then post an opinion of you before talking to you and getting to know you.

Judgement before verification is what makes people look ignorant.

Thanks.

Jim

 

[MoparTrucks]

Huh? My comment was meant as sarcasm. I have not been conditioned or anything else for that matter. That picture is a mess, and shows why there are rules in place to keep people from killing themselves, or worse, killing someone else.

I may not follow the rules all the time, but rules are in place for a reason, and I try to follow what makes sense and what will help keep me and my family from being killed in a fire because some ****** didn't follow a simple code that would have kept a catastrophe from happening in the first place!

Also, I do not live in any type of HOA. Why would you make that up? I don't know you, nor do you know me. I live in a regular neighborhood, just like the one you described where you live, but with homes on 1 acre lots, and both myself and my neighbors can paint their front doors any color they want, just like you can.

Before you go and tell other people what I am like, and claim to know how and where I live, you should find out about me first, and ask me.

I do not know you, nor would I ever make any judgements based solely on what you happen to write on an internet forum like this.

That is what makes people look ignorant.

Thanks.

Jim

You might have missed where I was agreeing with you for the most part. The point I was making is that its trite to say get involved politically and change things but the reality is most people (apparently) have been conditioned over the last 30 or so years to accept these rules as necessary when you have large groups of people living together; and as you point out, it keeps people from doing the types of dangerous half assed repairs I had to contend with when I bought my place.

HOAs are more common that not in most cities now days but when I first started buying houses in the late 70s I had never heard of HOAs and to this day I find the concept objectionable for me personally even though I can see their purpose from a financial and social harmony aspect. Most younger home owners today are used to (I used conditioned) the concept of HOAs and they prefer them.

Maybe thats a wrong impression but it sure seems to be born out in threads like this. If I was interested in a financial return on my investment because I was going to sell in the next 10 years I would be a lot less adverse about HOAs or zoning.

If all of that is incorrect I apologize and as I said it was not meant as a slam against you. Zoning has a purpose and to me more restrictive zoning has become more acceptable to many people because its been the norm for the last few decades.