Comments, Internets influence on tool value

[Jeepguy]

Yeah yeah yeah, a tool is only worth what some one is willing to pay for it, That is something we all know. But what is your opinion on the way the internet has taken good quality, well made, working man tools, specifically the cordless and corded woodworking tools and made it a game of how low can you go?

More specifically brand new, barely on the market tools that are being sold at 60% off of list, but you add it to your cart and find out that, wow, its already a refurbished tool. I have been working in this market for years and only since about mid 2007 have i noticed that the only thing the internet stores are doing is selling as low as possible.

You dont have to trust, or know me, to know that right now is the best time to buy new tools because all of the companies are desperate to clear their warehouses, and are offering the best mail in rebates ever. But really I just want to see what you guys think about all of this.

 

[forceyoda]

I think it's great as a buyer. 10 years ago i would not have been afford any of the tools i have been buying lately.

 

[chevy4lyf]

Online effecting bottom-barrel power tools? I think they are still about the same as they always have been, customers who don't care about quality will buy them but the mid and high range customer won't. I think the real impact over the long-term will be mid-range tools. More of the professional brands are starting to get to lower price points, and this causes mid-range customers to step-up. The only problem is that companies like Dewalt have been willing to sacrifice their reputation in order to appeal to more customers, and this could hurt in the long-run.

Internet sites are having a huge impact on power tools sales overall, as much as they have impacted every other aspect of the way we shop. With no brick & mortar locations to maintain, they have taken out one of the largest cost factors in retailing. Add on the fact that in many cases there aren't any sales tax charges and that shipping is often waived (or you can buy into shipping programs that make it worth your while for frequent purchases) and there isn't much incentive to shop at your local retailer.

As for brick & mortar retailers, the only advantage is immediacy of purchase (no wait time to receive), interactivity with the tool (as most let you try to tool out for yourself), and easy return/service/replacement. But if the tools aren't charged and they are out of stock, you might as well just buy online, which is why people have been gravitating to online outlets.

Honestly I think Congress and individual states are going to start putting a clamp on online sales. This tremendous shift in consumer shopping has caused states to lose billions in sales tax and income revenues, not to mention job losses. And it's not like the money is being made-up somewhere else. I believe some states are currently planning on taxing all online transactions conducted by people within their states. As much as I love the free ride, I know that it can't and shouldn't last much longer.

 

[Merkava_4]

Honestly I think Congress and individual states are going to start putting a clamp on online sales. This tremendous shift in consumer shopping has caused states to lose billions in sales tax and income revenues, not to mention job losses.

Snap-on has already started charging sales tax for their online orders.

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

This is the reason TR TOOL SUPPLY has not been doing online sales.It is nothing more than how low can you go!
I think chevy4lyf is right in thinking the end is near for no sales tax online sales.
With the industry example of 20% margins,that leaves a lot of room to beat the next guy's price.
As others have mentioned look at the DeWalt websites online retailers links,TOOL Up and the rest are in a constant battle to be the lowest price and they ALL buy from the same factory!

 

[forceyoda]

Any business that operates in the state that you are ordering will charge you sales tax. Sears, Mac, Snap On and others all charge the Texas tax when I order from them.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

It will be easier to collect tax from the internet vendors. As is, now, (at least in my state), there is a rule, that if you buy over x dollars, you need to figure out the sales tax (I forget the term), and send it in at tax time.

 

[Bolster]

Honestly I think Congress and individual states are going to start putting a clamp on online sales. This tremendous shift in consumer shopping has caused states to lose billions in sales tax and income revenues, not to mention job losses. And it's not like the money is being made-up somewhere else. I believe some states are currently planning on taxing all online transactions conducted by people within their states. As much as I love the free ride, I know that it can't and shouldn't last much longer.

Government doesn't "lose" tax dollars, because it was never theirs in the first place! Citizens GIVE government tax dollars. And it's citizens...you and me...who LOSE when we are taxed. Why must the government always get their cut first? Same reason a dog licks its balls...because it can. It can legally put a gun to your head, and throw you in jail. The Legal Thief.

Free trade "shouldn't" last much longer? What the...? Taxing 50% of your income shouldn't exist in the first place!!

 

[Jeepguy]

Chevy4lyf..... good point with the manufacturers adapting, but as somewhat of an insider, the manufacturers are cracking down on allowed advertized pricing, especially DeWalt, i know of 3 dealers in our area that have been cutt off from Black and Decker totally because of their pricing.

A lot of manufacturers are only half playing the low ball game, they keep increasing their list price, but give vendors a bigger discount to split the difference. it makes absolutely no sense to do that. all that says is that the manufacturer beleives that their product is worth a dollar but will be happy to get 25 cents for it. why not just keep the list at what it really is?

 

[UK Steve]

Bolster...
"Why must the government always get their cut first? Same reason a dog licks its balls...because it can. It can legally put a gun to your head, and throw you in jail. The Legal Thief.

Free trade "shouldn't" last much longer? What the...? Taxing 50% of your income shouldn't exist in the first place!!"

Thank you very much for that it happens here in the UK and the effin MP's are now really taking the piss......a duck house, moat cleaning, T.V's, gardening, claiming for none existent mortgages, food, and christ knows what else that we as tax payers are having to pay. How many are going to jail not one. I think Guy Fawks should be reborn and blow parliment to hell.

Sorry about that but I had to let it go.........................

 

[fatfillup]

Bolster you are right about us paying too much in taxes,,,,,,,,BUT,,,,,,,,in order to have a somewhat level playing field, internet sales should be taxed or the local reatiler is automatically at a 4 to 8% disadvantage. I presently collect tax in two states and at one time about 7. I believe we need local retailers, they provide jobs and help drive the economy.

 

[d33pt]

It will be easier to collect tax from the internet vendors. As is, now, (at least in my state), there is a rule, that if you buy over x dollars, you need to figure out the sales tax (I forget the term), and send it in at tax time.

that's called use tax. no one really does it though.

 

[Packard V8]

We all have our hot buttons on taxes. Mine is paying sales tax every time a used car is sold, no matter how many times it changes hands.

FWIW, since I seldom to never buy new tools and of course, never sell new tools, I don't see the bigger problems you companies/vendors see. Recently, I needed an 18ga finish nail gun. A local craigslister had picked up a dozen NIB Porter Cable 1-1/4" units at auction, discontinued because the current models all go up to 2". For $40, no sales tax, I got what I needed, versus $100-250+tax for retail.

I just remodeled a bedroom and my wife wants the trick Hunter-Douglas bottom-up or top-down pleated shades. The local retail "consultant" was a completely clueless woman who didn't know the product line that well, didn't really understand how to explain the trade-offs between inside mounting and outside mounting. After she left an estimate, a quick check of internet sites showed the locals to be marking them up 50%. I'll always support the local dealer for in-stock items and pay for expertise on a custom order, but on $2500 worth of shades, she wasn't adding any value for her 50%+8.5% extra cost.

Bottom line, for those with the time to look around, the internet is the best thing ever to come along.

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

I just agreed with the statement "it won't last much longer",not that it shouldn't.I don't agree and never will with more &more TAXES!!!!!!

How about 40%+ right off the top of sales.Where is all this money going?
WHOOPS!Politics dead ahead!DETOUR.........

 

[Bolster]

We all have our hot buttons on taxes.

Yeah, I should have kept my mouth closed. Technically, I did keep it shut, but it came out in the fingers. Sorry guys.

So...hopefully this is not inflammatory...I will just say I'd much rather pay shipping than taxes. I'll go out of my way to buy online, even if shipping is more than taxes, because shipping keeps the $$ in the private sector. I'd rather it go to FedEx and UPS and a quasi-independent USPS (sorta kinda) than straight into the pockets of the new CEO of GM. He has enough.

 

[Danglerb]

Yeah this net thing sure makes the world different, warmer I think.

 

[chevy4lyf]

I just agreed with the statement "it won't last much longer",not that it shouldn't.I don't agree and never will with more &more TAXES!!!!!!

How about 40%+ right off the top of sales.Where is all this money going?
WHOOPS!Politics dead ahead!DETOUR.........

I agree that it won't last much longer, but I think it needs to be one way or the other. Either no taxes on anything (which will then force a higher income/property tax anyway - pick your poison) or tax all outlets. You can't just tax brick and mortar and not internet, that is a significant competitive advantage that is completely artificial.

Yes I am also aware that some do pay taxes on online sites already. If the company physically has operations in your state, I believe you have to pay sales tax. That's why Brick & mortar online sites charge sales tax.

As for not taxing though, good luck with that crapshoot. Gov't has to stop spending to stop taxing, and spending is only going to go up in the future. Gov't expansion is a drug and everyone is addicted. I wouldn't be surprised if we switched to a VAT soon to conceal how much the real tax is like in Great Britain.

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

Hey Chevy,
I agree with both you and Bolster,I not arguing with the present, no taxes(mostly) on internet sales and what it means to brick &motar storefronts.I do know that the taxes ,when the gov't starts collecting them for online sales will not be spent on deficit reduction but like always on "other" things!
Which means we all will be paying for more of the same.IMHO

P.S.Yes I do collect sales tax on my in state sales

 

[chevy4lyf]

Hey Chevy,
I agree with both you and Bolster,I not arguing with the present, no taxes(mostly) on internet sales and what it means to brick &motar storefronts.I do know that the taxes ,when the gov't starts collecting them for online sales will not be spent on deficit reduction but like always on "other" things!
Which means we all will be paying for more of the same.IMHO

P.S.Yes I do collect sales tax on my in state sales

I think we're in agreement here. Government doesn't know how to spend and will never know, but they figure out how to collect taxes and they will figure this thing out as well.

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

We are on the same page!Thanks for the "kind" discussion.

 

[speed bump]

I always tend to figure that if the local shop is close I will buy locally especially because almost all the local guys tend to be real good about customer service. If the price difference is really big unless I want the local support for the product I will buy it online.